General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBreaking News NZ all military Semi-Automatic weapons and assualt weapons banned immediately
Our prime minister has just announced this.
Our opposition party The National Party (like your republican party) has supported this
100%!!
stuff.co.nz
That's a wrap from the Prime Minister's press conference.
To recap:
All Military Style Semi-Automatic weapons and assault weapons have been banned effective immediately.
The Government has also moved to ban a number of accessories which can take lower capacity semi-automatic to weapons of far greater killing capacity.
Related parts used to convert those guns into MSSAs are also being banned, along with all high-capacity magazines.
There will be an amnesty period, with a buy-back scheme to pay gun owners fair market value for the surrender of their weapons to police. Details of that are yet to be announced.
And an important PSA: There will be an online form made available in the next few days to begin the surrendering process to police.
Do not bring your guns to a police station unannounced.
gopiscrap
(23,766 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,648 posts)brettdale
(12,389 posts)(Oh the ACT party are like Faux News viewers)
The political reaction to the Governments proposed ban on Military-style semi-automatics and assault rifles in New Zealand has been swift.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern this afternoon said the Government will pass legislation under urgency to give effect to the ban she expects it to pass on April 11.
Ardern told media she expected to have wide support in the House to pass the new law.
In a statement just half an hour after the Prime Minister made the announcement, National Leader Simon Bridges said it supported the proposal.
We agree that the public doesnt need access to military style semi-automatic weapons. National supports them being banned along with assault rifles.
We also support the Governments proposals to limit the access to other high powered semi-automatic weapons and ammunition.
The Green Party welcomed the proposed ban.
Banning military style semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles makes everyone safer. Banning these guns is the first step towards systemic changes to our gun laws, co-leader James Shaw said.
We are working constructively with our Government partners on further much-needed action to tighten access to guns in our country.
I am pleased that our Government is acting so swiftly and decisively to rid the country of firearms designed to kill people, Shaw said.
But Act Party David Seymour criticized the rushed process of the legislation and said it would deny the public the chance to have their say.
He said it could lead to legislation that failed to solve the problem.
Trying to pass a law in less than three weeks in a recipe for bad law making.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)the prime minister can change laws just like that? Doesn't it have to go through some legislative processes first? And maybe a judicial process, where one of the first steps is an injunction against the activity of the new law while the case makes its way through the appeals process?
Expect the NRA to use New Zealand as a horror story to motivate its members and sympathizers to action next year.
brettdale
(12,389 posts)I think the law can be passed, then it gets voted on in parliament, considering every single
MP (member of Parliament) apart from one is going to vote yes, then it becomes law.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that a lawsuit from whatever the New Zealand version of the NRA is, and depending on the New Zealand constitution, an injunction against enforcing it might be ordered from at least one sympathetic judge in a lower court.
Guns didn't stay legal in a vacuum in NZ, clearly the fact that the Kiwis didn't follow the Aussies on gun policies speaks to some sort of political power of their version of the gun lobby.
JI7
(89,282 posts)that doesn't do anything after the shootings.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)While I heard expressions of sympathy and grief from our candidates, I don't seem to remember any of them talking about legislative solutions, maybe that's why.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,537 posts)We protest, the GOPers send thoughts and prayers, Putin sends more money to the NRA, which buys more GOPers to oppose sensible gun laws.
We do this after every mass shooting.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)JI7
(89,282 posts)Baconator
(1,459 posts)What kind of question is that?
JI7
(89,282 posts)Baconator
(1,459 posts)It's still apples and oranges...
Blanket bans on semi-automatic weapons in NZ don't have to overcome the brick wall of the 2nd Amendment that exists in the US.
That's the point...
Kaleva
(36,375 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)when interpreted as a "living document." We are only starting to see the horrors of strictly construing a document written in the 19th Century.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)... but things like the 1st and 2nd amendment are as integrated into the culture as they are into the law and aren't going away any time soon.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)How many people have to die needlessly as a result?
Baconator
(1,459 posts)You'd better figure out how to deal with it or you'll be in the same position in 50 years.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)some slaves, suffragettes and many others. I will deal with it by working, voting and contributing to gun control to the best of my ability.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)Damn...
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)you fight for it, Ill fight against it... thats the way it works.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)Pointing out the reality of the situation (that the 2nd exists and has a ton of precedent behind it) doesn't mean I'm fighting "for" anything.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)When these discussions come up on the Second Amendment with your "reality." Coincidence, I guess.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)I'm flattered...
I've got other material too... Check it out some time.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)when people troll.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)Kaleva
(36,375 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)So while we have the luxury of not caring about the bill of rights, the folks who write and enforce our laws don't have that luxury.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
TwilightZone
(25,508 posts)They're not about to sue.
https://www.nranz.com/
Kaleva
(36,375 posts)New Zealand courts interpret the laws but they don't, being there is no constitution, determine the validity of them.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)New Zealand has no real "Independence Day", they just sort of evolved into a separate nation gradually from the British Empire.
Expect the NRA to call the troops to battle with the cry that there's a difference between a nation that fought Britain for its freedom, and one that simply waited for the Brits to leave of their own accord.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"some sort of political power of their version of the gun lobby..."
To what degree, would be the relevant question. Embedded, controlling and with undue influence as in the US, or merely another annoyance bordering on the irrelevant as in Australia? Or to what degree in between, as relegating it to only one or the other would be irrational.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)it looks like weapons enthusiasts will let this happen. It will probably embolden the NZ government to take further steps in that direction. Frog-boiling, and such, the NRA will call it.
Blues Heron
(5,948 posts)I think that was the impetus for this declaration. Banning a type of gun - not so much. There's horror and then there's real horror. NZ had the latter, hence this excellent move.
meadowlander
(4,411 posts)The Prime Minister has the Executive Council draft an Order in Council, it goes through a few readings in parliament and then is voted on. Since the Labour Party coalition also has the majority in parliament its rare that legislation proposed in this way doesn't pass.
I think from memory it is still subject to judicial review if anyone requests it including on whether sufficient consultation was undertaken. But this is general on whether the process followed was lawful - not whether the law is consistent with a constitution (which NZ doesn't have) or with common law precedent.
You can also in some circumstances propose draft laws that have immediate legal effect if you can show that there is some risk in delay. For example, if you want to make a law protecting indigenous biodiversity areas except there is a risk that the second you identify them the farmer that owns the site will go out and chop down all the trees, you can notify the rules with immediate legal effect. Probably the same mechanism was used here to prevent people running out and stockpiling guns or trying to profiteer off the buybacks.
And of course it means a different government could overturn the new laws just as easily.
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)All it took was one incident.
Here we have had hundreds of incidents but nothing is done. Shameful.
brettdale
(12,389 posts)Hekate
(90,941 posts)brettdale
(12,389 posts)Military style semi-automatics and assault rifles banned under stronger gun laws
Immediate action to prevent stock-piling
Military style semi-automatics and assault rifles will be banned in New Zealand under stronger new gun laws announced today, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says.
On 15 March our history changed forever. Now, our laws will too. We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place, Jacinda Ardern said.
Cabinet agreed to overhaul the law when it met on Monday, 72 hours after the horrific terrorism act in Christchurch. Now, six days after this attack, we are announcing a ban on all military style semi-automatics (MSSA) and assault rifles in New Zealand.
Related parts used to convert these guns into MSSAs are also being banned, along with all high-capacity magazines.
An amnesty will be put in place for weapons to be handed in, and Cabinet has directed officials to develop a buyback scheme. Further details will be announced on the buyback in due course.
All semi-automatic weapons used during the terrorist attack on Friday 15 March will be banned.
I strongly believe that the vast majority of legitimate gun owners in New Zealand will understand that these moves are in the national interest, and will take these changes in their stride.
When Australia undertook similar reforms, their approach was to allow for exemptions for farmers upon application, including for pest control and animal welfare. We have taken similar action to identify the weapons legitimately required in those areas, and preclude them.
Legislation to give effect to the ban will be introduced when Parliament sits in the first week of April. We will provide a short, sharp Select Committee process for feedback on the technical aspects of the changes. We are looking to progress the amendments to this legislation under urgency and expect these amendments to the Arms Act to be passed within the next session of Parliament, Jacinda Ardern said.
The Bill will include narrow exemptions for legitimate business use, which would include professional pest control. Police and the Defence Force will also have exemptions. Issues like access for mainstream international sporting competitions are also being worked through, Police Minister Stuart Nash said.
We have also acknowledged that some guns serve legitimate purposes in our farming communities, and have therefore set out exemptions for 0.22 calibre rifles and shotguns commonly used for duck hunting. These will have limitations around their capacity.
While the legislation is being drafted, I am announcing the Government will take immediate action today to restrict the potential stock-piling of these guns and encourage people to continue to surrender their firearms.
Earlier this afternoon, an Order in Council under section 74A(c) of the Arms Act was signed by the Governor-General to reclassify a wider range of semi-automatic weapons under the Act. It came into effect at 3pm today.
This interim measure will ensure that all of the weapons being banned under amendments to the Arms Act are now categorised as weapons requiring an E endorsement on a firearms licence.
The effect of this is that it will prevent the sale of MSSAs and assault rifles to people with A category gun licences. The Order in Council is a transitional measure until the wider ban takes effect.
We are introducing transitionary measures for gun owners to hand in their guns to Police to hold until details of a buy-back are announced. Likewise, the Police continue to accept guns for destruction.
Again, we encourage gun owners to phone in to Police ahead of time to advise them they are bringing their guns in to the station, Stuart Nash said.
The actions announced today are the first step of the Governments response. We will continue to develop stronger and more effective licensing rules, storage requirements and penalties for not complying with gun regulations. It is the Governments intention that these amendments will go through the full legislative process, Jacinda Ardern said.
To owners who have legitimate uses for their guns, I want to reiterate that the actions being announced today are not because of you, and are not directed at you. Our actions, on behalf of all New Zealanders, are directed at making sure this never happens again.
spanone
(135,919 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)every chance they get during the election.
spanone
(135,919 posts)America wants gun control
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Fuck Trump. Fuck the NRA. Fuck Bush too.
Good sentiments.
But unfortunately after writing those two sentences, W was still president for 8 years, Trump is still president and the NRA is still influencing 49% of America to resist gun control and vote for Republicans.
spanone
(135,919 posts)tclambert
(11,087 posts)Our lawmakers use that whenever there is a mass shooting, which is like all the time, so . . . hmmm.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Too bad the United States is locked in that suicide pact called the second part of the second amendment (that "well-regulated militia" language doesn't mean nothing, it's just frilly 18th century verbiage - or so I've been told).
Midnight Writer
(21,829 posts)miyazaki
(2,255 posts)Like growing heirloom tomatoes.
Crunchy Frog
(26,698 posts)Amishman
(5,559 posts)Glad to see they are doing it as a buyback
I just hope they offer enough money
Australia offered preban market value and got less than half turned in.
In order to make it successful, they need to pay way above market value. They have to make the gunners want to turn them in out of greed.
Kaleva
(36,375 posts)"For Australia, the NFA seems to have been incredibly successful in terms of lives saved. While 13 gun massacres (the killing of 4 or more people at one time) occurred in Australia in the 18 years before the NFA, resulting in more than one hundred deaths, in the 14 following years (and up to the present), there were no gun massacres."
Suicide by gun rates have also plummeted:
"We find that the buyback led to a drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80%, with no significant effect on non-firearm death rates. "
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/australian-guns/
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)nothing.
not one thing in their group.
take a look:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1172
Kaleva
(36,375 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)they just aren't talking about the NZ shooting. AT ALL.
don't play games with us, BUT you can't stop yourself.
Kaleva
(36,375 posts)And it is pretty quiet in the gungeon. There's just been 5 OPs posted in this month. Gun Control Reform Activism is pretty much dead and the traffic in the gungeon has dropped considerably over the past many months.
Paladin
(28,281 posts)Remember in years past, when there were gungeoneers proudly claiming to be NRA members? Remember the multiple postings of bump stocks in action? Things have really changed.
Kaleva
(36,375 posts)but i won't say because that could be construed as complaining on how DU is run or moderated. I don't know what happened with the gungeon but it does appear that a number of the pro gun regulars have stopped or greatly reduced their postings in that group.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I think the great DU gun war is finally over.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)So it's not totally dead.
hack89
(39,171 posts)that thread is not much to hang your hat on.
Aussie105
(5,470 posts)Declare semi automatic rifles illegal, ban their sale, do the 'you will need a licence to get one, but don't bother because you won't get one' trick, get all political parties to back you, kick lobby groups out of the picture, and it's done.
America, what is stopping you?
Took my semi auto rifle into a police station, in it's carry case with the butt exposed, handed it over without comment. Married with young kids, didn't want to risk accidents.
This was 45 years ago, when Australia had no gun laws and gun shops were common. America has a few decades to catch up on.
Only police, members of the Armed Forces, security guards and special armed police response teams carry these days. That's the way it should be.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Lack of wide and deep support?
I live in a progressive blue state - we can't even pass an AWB so it is hard to imagine the rest of the country doing the same.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Is that America doesn't want to. Mind you I'm not saying we should or shouldn't,
I'm just saying that this particular country doesn't want to.
Believe me, if 99% of the country wanted to ban all guns, the 2nd amendment wouldn't be an issue no more than the 3rd amendment is.
But as it is, about 90% of the country doesn't want to ban all guns (virtually no politician has taken the position of banning all guns), and only about 40% want to ban semi-autos.
Americans. They like their guns so they choose to NOT ban them.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)isn't as hard as the gunsplainers say it is...
Aussie105
(5,470 posts)Every man should maintain a clean, well oiled and polished muzzle loading rifle, with powder and lead shot at the ready. To defend the country, if invaded.
In short, the Second Amendment needs to be read in context in terms of it's intent and weaponry involved at the time it was written.
samnsara
(17,656 posts)IronLionZion
(45,612 posts)with sensible regulations.
You Aussies are going to experience a lot of brutal oppression from your own government if you don't have weapons to defend yourself.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)He says it's for deer hunting. Tough to carry up into his tree stand, though.
Actually, it's a civil war-era historic piece. He didn't need any license to buy it. But he gets a local permit every time he wants to fire it (like for the 4th of July, or his mother-in-law's birthday, etc.).
samnsara
(17,656 posts)Squinch
(51,074 posts)and none of them are screaming that cars and spoons kill people too, and none of them are insisting that their hobby is more important than the lives of others.
That must be so nice.
Aussie105
(5,470 posts)And sensible.
And show concern for their fellow citizens. No matter their skin colour, country of origin, which church they attend, what clothes they wear, what language they speak, what foods they eat.
America, watch and learn.
Vinca
(50,323 posts)we wait. We know another one is coming. We don't know who will be the target. We don't know how many will die. And all we get from the government is thoughts and prayers.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)They have a gun protector in trump.
Like smoking cigarettes, driving under influence, polluting, racism, etc., their bad habits and poor choices are out of favor.