I believe SDNY will indict the Trump organization, possibly before the Mueller report.

[shockey80]

Last edited Thu Mar 21, 2019, 11:27 AM - Edit history (2)

In my opinion, Mueller releasing his report before the handing down of indictments would be like putting the cart before the horse.

Indicting the Trump organization is a perfect way of getting around the legal question about wether or not you can indict a sitting president. Indict The Trump organization and you nail Trump without directly indicting him.

Mueller and SDNY are working and coordinating together. During Muellers investigation he found other crimes that he passed on to SDNY. I believe they will throw a one , two punch at Trump and knock his ass out of office.

Cohen named Trump as a co-conspirator in court for the crimes he committed. Cohen showed us checks signed by Trump and checks signed by the Trump organization. Cohen showed us evidence of bank fraud. He said under oath Trump committed tax and insurance fraud. Cohen has given SDNY more evidence that we don't know about.

I believe Mueller will hand down indictments for conspiracy and other crimes.

Mueller is no fool. He knows Trump is a criminal and a threat to our country that should be removed. He knows the state of our politics and knows Trump will obstruct justice any way he can. When Mueller brings the hammer down he will not do it gently. He will bring the hammer down full force and leave no doubt the fucking asshole in the Whitehouse must be removed.

I hope I am right because everyday Trump is office the danger and damage grows. Waiting to remove Trump in the election is like playing with fire. He must be removed as soon as possible.

[Socal31]

1. SDNY doesn't mess around.

[DownriverDem]

21. This is why

trump has been doing his twitter and appearance shit storm. He is afraid of the SDNY investigations more than Mueller.

[Botany]

2. Isn't it the SDNY?

n/t

[AncientGeezer]

3. Yes

[katmondoo]

4. I pray you are right. I do not think Mueller wants to see America go down in ashes

[ProudMNDemocrat]

5. This sounds credible to me....

Indicting Donald Trump indirectly by directly going after the organization and him in this way, corners him even further. That puts Jr., Ivanka, and Eric in the hot seat. Trump has to be walking on egg shells for the peril he put his kids in as a means to protect him.

[cannabis_flower]

15. I don't think..

He cares about his kids as much as he cares about himself. I think he would throw them under the bus in a minute if he thought it would get him off the hook.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

17. Very true, cannabis.....

Compassion, loyalty, and love of family is not in Trump's DNA.

[at140]

27. Yes, Trump cheated on those kid's mothers already

but I am still not ready to unlock the champagne. Seen too many false hopes posted before.

[ScratchCat]

6. Maybe, maybe not

But the New York Attorney Generals office is going to indict him for defrauding The State of New York of taxes and there is nothing he or the GOP can do about it. He has written-off hush money payments and disguised other money transfers as business/legal expenses. This is tax fraud. He will be charged. He is not going to be the 2020 GOP candidate. He will be an un-indicted co-conspirator on federal charges - at least - and will be under indictment for State tax and insurance fraud charges. There is no, I repeat NO constitutional issue here.

[shockey80]

7. Thank you, I forgot about The Attorney Generals investigation.

This could be a Three punch combination that takes out Trump.

[shockey80]

8. There are so many investigations I lose track of them.

[SWBTATTReg]

11. Here's an snapshot I last saw of the multiple investigations...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211898482

[fescuerescue]

9. Perhaps

But that means the punishment will be in the form of a fine to Trumps company.

Remember you can't put a company in jail.

No jail. No impeachment. No criminal record. Trump loses some money. But he's used to that. He's been losing money all his life.

[shockey80]

10. You can put the people who run the company in jail.

[fescuerescue]

12. That's true. How often does that happen?

There's Enron. But I can't think of another example, although I'm sure there are some.

However, once the strategy is to put Trump in jail, now we are back at square 1 again with the Federal challenges of prosecuting a President. Except that instead of simply prosecuting a President, we also have a corporate fraud case to prove as well.

So it's the same burden as removing a President, but with all the extra burden of prosecuting a corporation.

Let's take Enron.

That company filed for BK in 2001. It's troubles were apparent in 2000. The trial of Lay and skilling didn't start till January of 2006 and no one was sentenced till almost 2007. Notable. Enron wasn't prosecuted either. Just it's executives.

That's 7 years for people that everyone hates. Lay and Skilling weren't Presidents and it took 7 years.

Trump has 2 or 6 years left.

While I'll cheer if the Trump organization is prosecuted, no one expects that to be the fast track to removing him anytime before the end of 2025.

[Honeycombe8]

19. Worldcom, the biggest company accounting scandal in American history, except for Bernie Madoff.

The former CEO of Worldcom, and other officials, were criminally convicted of fraud and other charges. The former CEO (Ebbers) was sentenced to 25 years in prison (he was in his 60s at the time). He was shipped off to prison in Louisiana, which, if he wasn't from Louisiana, I can assure you would be quite a hell hole to serve time in for an elite northerner. I read that he was transferred to Ft. Worth, so that would be a lot better. But for someone from Canada, who had lived in California and New Mexico, Ft. Worth would still be a culture, and hell's heat, that he wouldn't be used to. His trophy wife divorced him. (He had already dumped the older wife for the trophy wife.)

But this wouldn't happen to Trump, because he's President.

[fescuerescue]

33. yup

I just looked it up to. From the time that the fraud was uncovered to the time that Ebbers went to prison was a little bit longer than 4 years.

These efforts can punish a bad executive. But they are NOT speedy resolutions.

[Honeycombe8]

34. Oh...I didn't realize that it had taken that long.

This stuff is complicated, which takes time. And rich defendants can fight everything, to drag it out.

One thing, though: Maybe he shouldn't have dumped wife #1 for a trophy wife, since wife #1 may have stuck with him. Trophy wives tend to move on, when you're in the slammer.

[Kingofalldems]

31. So what's your solution?

[fescuerescue]

32. Our constitution provides the remedy.

I'm just as capable as anyone else in this thread in daydreaming about faster ways to remove Trump. But those are just wishes and dreams.

It's unlikely that Pelosi will act on anything I write here and that's assuming she knows about this board, reads it and gets advice from it. There I go day dreaming again.

Maybe SDNY will go after the Trump org and take it down. Just like they did Enron. I'm just pointing out that that's a multi-year solution..one that will absolutely take the rest of Trumps term, plus another 4 or 5 years. Took about the same amount of time to take down Martin Shkreli as well.

Our solutions are laid out in the constitution. Elections backed up by impeachment.

If we can't successfully impeach. That's unfortunate but a mess we all made together as a country.

[Honeycombe8]

35. I think you're saying what I have said before.

If the evidence of "high crimes and misdemeanors" is there, impeachment is the main recourse for the country. The prosecutors will take it, when they can, but their direct job is to indict and try someone for crimes.

Even if impeachment can't ultimately remove him from office, we still have a duty to impeach. It will be on his record. I understand the arguments against it. So, I don't know. A duty is a duty, though. What is impeachment for, if not for this President, if the evidence is there?

[ancianita]

13. SDNY's move could pardon proof Mueller's later indictments, since an indicted president's pardon

would clearly show an attempted obstruction of justice. That's my take.

[Karadeniz]

14. By George, I think you've got it!❤

[Calista241]

16. I doubt it. Those investigations take a lot of time.

The Trump Org has properties all over the world, and different reporting rules apply to many of them. It will take an army of accountants and investigators months to go over the documents they have.

They can’t just look at one document and charge a crime, they have to look at them all in context as they’re all related to each other.

Look at the Enron scandle for context. Bad shit was discovered in 2001, and the company declared bankruptcy within a year. Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling didn’t go on trial until 2006.

[johnnyfins]

18. But , but

He has the military and police and bikers... :/

[Honeycombe8]

20. Oh, noes! I had forgotten....

[malaise]

22. I'd love it

Rec

[ehrnst]

23. Please involve his kids. Please involve his kids. Please involve his kids....(nt)

[H2O Man]

24. Recommended.

Yes, they will.

[red dog 1]

25. You might be right!

Question - "How are criminal charges brought against corporations?"

Answer - "As a (1999) Justice Dept. memo on this very topic explains,
'Corporations are legal persons, capable of suing, and being sued, and capable of committing crimes.' "
("What Happens When a Company Gets Indicted?"..FindLaw.com)

[stillcool]

26. I'll take my hope..

anywhere I can find it...thanks!

[NacLeeFF]

28. I hope you're right too.

[FakeNoose]

29. SDNY is federal prosecutors, not NYS prosecutors

Chump can still use his pardoning powers for federal convictions, and he can even pardon himself if need be. I think his concern may be over the New York State prosecutors and their recent activities.

Chump has no pardoning power over any state proceedings. He's looking at big fines and possible prison time for himself and family members, if things go they way they're looking now. Yes the SDNY is making a lot of trouble for Chump but he can still fire people and use his pardon power as a get out of jail free card.

[MyOwnPeace]

30. How sad to think

that with all of this corruption, crime, theft, and deception going on there are still 30% of Americans out there that think he is just Mr. Wonderful...............

[katmondoo]

36. I hope and pray you are right

I am so afraid for our country and we need some true patriots to keep it a Democracy. The founders were young, we need the young people again to get us back to being a great country again.

[green917]

37. Some important things to remember about the conclusion of Mueller's investigation

Most importantly, the Russia probe (we now know) was started as a Counter-Intelligence operation and never really changed its scope. What is important here is that the report itself may be the indictment we've all been waiting for and we may not get to see much of it but, rest assured, that the House Intelligence Committee will. Mueller's report is a vast report of a conspiracy of epic proportions but, there may not have been further indictments because we need to protect our intelligence gathering apparatus as well as foreign assets that are still working to gather intelligence for us (for instance, we have no idea how Mueller's team got access to the internal emails and documents from the Internet Research Agency in Russia).

The Mueller probe's scope was Russian meddling in the 2016 election and he has done Yeoman's work in ferreting out the Russian interference in said election. With more than 30 indictments of both Russian nationals and Companies, he has successfully completed that task.

Mueller has shown, throughout the probe, that he operates completely by the book and, therefore, if he found malfeasance or illegal activity outside the scope of his original mandate, he has had no compunction to hand it off to other departments within Main Justice or other Federal and State offices (i.e. - the Prosecutions of Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen). Even if his report exonerates Trump, the Southern District of New York is FAR from finished with their inquiries into several different avenues involving all aspects of Trump's dealings with various Foreign Nationals (Russian, Saudi, Qatari, Israeli, Chinese, etc.), his business dealings (I believe there is a huge money laundering investigation involving Trump and his children and son in law under way in the Southern District of New York), and his campaign/transition.

I still believe that there is a veritable avalanche of subpoenas and indictments heading straight for the West Wing (I still believe Don Jr. and Jared Kushner are in serious legal jeopardy). Roger Stone hasn't even been arraigned yet, much less cut a deal (which I believe he will).

[Linda Ed]

38. Mueller report didn't bring the hammer down

Now it's the congress that will have to do it.. At this point in time I am sick about Mueller report and find myself asking the question,,,,Is there no justice? For two years we have been watching this creep sitting in the WH mock our FBI CIA and all other legal offices and calling them names like "scum fbi" etc etc...

Mueller didn't exonerate him yet Barr is doing it for him...That is why drumpf chose this guy to be AG.