Are Trump supporters in an altered mental state?

[Girard442]

No, this is not snark. I'm thinking in terms of Jonestown or Nazi Germany. It seems that that level of fanatical devotion and complete suspension of critical thinking involves more than just being hoodwinked or having one's prejudices catered to. I wonder if it's possible for some people to blip into a nonthinking state of total loyalty -- or if it's possible to imagine heading off such a transformation.

[Vinca]

1. Something ain't right. When you believe God sent Don, you're a candidate for the happy hotel.

[samnsara]

2. this is Jones town nuts

[Blue_true]

31. I agree. They somehow ignore information that beats them in the face.

If Trump told them to drink poisoned koolaide, they would line up waiting their turn to sip.

[Luvapottamus]

3. Most of the ones I interact with

Are using the Limbaugh Gambit.

Everything liberals do is bad, so....tortured logic...anybody republican is better.

lol.

Cracks are showing now though.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. If all you've been hearing on talk radio for 30 years is the likes of Rush Limbaugh,

if you get all your TV news and commentary from Fox and your Internet go-to site is Breitbart or Free Republic, your notion of reality is so skewed that it's possible for you to worship a loathsome dirtbag like Trump without seeing that he's a loathsome dirtbag. It doesn't hurt that you might have started out as an ignorant racist who would be susceptible to that kind of bullshit in the first place.

[lancelyons]

5. Yes from years of being brain washed by Fox News

Fox News has been one of the biggest problems America has had in relation ship to the Divide and the hate we have in our country.

They push this stuff.

I would not be surprised that we find out that Fox News was conceived and setup by Putin and his UK oligarchs.

Its a propaganda channel and the right are the victims of this brain washing.

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. Combination of losing their actual minds when a black man named Obama won

with their inherent hatreds, bigotries and massive ignorance.

[RKP5637]

7. Yes, I definitely think so!!! n/t

[BlueFlorida]

8. It is not limited to Trump supporters

We had Ron Paul supporters before them.

When one gets devoted to any ideology so much that one ignores or finds fault with any evidence contrary to said ideology this happens. This phenomenon is what religions count on to keep devotees worshiping.

Democrats also have their deities and deluded devotees but fortunately, a majority of Democrats are objective people who are willing to hear both sides and develop logical inferences.

The dangerous part is that when such devotees are outvoted by the logical people, their anger knows no bounds and they want to make the majority's life miserable.

This is exactly why Trump can blatantly say that his supporters will not remain quiet if the Mueller report is negative or if he loses the election.

[Thomas Hurt]

9. Magical thinkers.

[Captain Stern]

10. Yes, they are. But not in totally in a Jonestown or Nazi Germany way.

The truth is, they really don't know what the fuck is going on.

To them (at least the ones I know), traditional media is corrupt and everyone on there is lying to them (except for Fox). They have seen the 'real' truth on the internet. All sorts of horrible, scary, awful, shit is happening all over, right this minute.....and only trump is trying to stop it. Just trump..nobody else.

[ananda]

11. It does look very culty.

And so fucking creepy!

[shockey80]

12. In a way, yes.

I have posted about this many times. I did a lot of research on this subject. Their brains are wired differently. They think with their emotions. They are very easily misled because of this. They are easy targets for propaganda. I used the example of the civil war. Most people in the South were dirt poor and never owned a slave. What were they fighting for?

This type of thinking has lead to some of biggest disasters in man kinds history. It is very dangerous.

[cutroot]

13. They receive a constant barrage of both hard core and soft core propaganda all day

I flipped on to the local fox news affiliate to catch the weather the other day. Everything was just couched in such a way that it made trump look like the brave, patriotic president battling against his detractors. It was very subtle and reminded me of the way they used to portray all of nixons troubles. We heard very little from the anti war groups and usually none of it was good. On the fox affiliated stations, there is little if any shade on trump. That is all that many of these trump supporters see and hear.

[Ilsa]

14. They've been fed fear and lies for decades.

And their children are being denied education and instruction in critical thinking. They've been taught to believe that if they want something to be true, then it is true.

[Bradical79]

15. Religion, racism, selfishness, ignorance + ego

Those are the main reasons I see. Religion and racism are huge reasons in my experience. Lots of conservatives' entire community revolves around their church, often with some asshole pastor who has set themselves up as the be all end all in biblical interpretation. Most evangelicals are all about prophecy and think they're part of some cosmic battle against satan. They're 25% of our population, and Trump's strongest supporters.

[Celerity]

25. +100

[McCamy Taylor]

16. Yes, they are. They lack the rugged individualism that makes Americans scoff at goose-stepping.

Trumps followers are members of a small minority of Americans who prefer not to think for themselves and who, when their Master says "jump" answer "How high sir?!" They long to have someone tell them what to do---the norm in some other parts of the world but not the norm in this country where people typically want to think for themselves. All that "My opinion is better than your fact" creates some problems, but so far, it has prevented us from becoming a fascist state.

[shockey80]

17. They lack rugged individualism. That is a Great description of Trump voters.

I will use that in the future. I may have a t-shirt made up saying that. Perfect description. Who they claim they are, they are not.

I may change it too, Trump voters lack American individualism. That's my next t-shirt.

[Mr Tibbs]

18. Yes, they live in a fantasy world

Trump has 90% support among Republicans. I don't see how the Republican party can exist after Trump.

[nolabear]

19. Professional opinion here.

We-all of us to a large degree-share certain characteristics, instinctual needs and a biochemical response system that responds to those needs being met. There are pain/pleasure, fight/flight, existential terror/defenses against that, all tied together with the nurture we, our parents, our grandparents, etc. received that create what we respond to in positive or negative ways.

The combinations can be clumped but are infinitely variable within those clumps. Let’s say you are a Caucasian male of forty five from a heartland area, whose mother was reasonably well nourished but grew up in a traditional, male centric household in the 60s, when factories were doing fairly well and small towns were seeing the “threat” from hippies and black people and unions who were coming into their homes via TV and radio and making them uncomfortable by calling them names-Square, The Man, Over Thirties, Prejudiced, etc. Your father went to Vietnam and came back rattled to his core and needing the kind of security that was suddenly not there, that of having his country appreciate the hell he went through and rewarding him for it. So he got angry. Mom is not empowered so she gets what she can by reflecting him, and you absorb that at the cellular level. And your friends, town, region is all subjected to similar unsettling events. So you’re all worried and angry that you’re insecure. So you cling together, because it’s instinctive to cling to the tribe when the tribe is threatened, and you lack the experience to realize this isn’t really an existential threat, just a threat to the known and safe. You reinforce one another with psychological walls. But they don’t hold.

And then someone promised you it’ll be okay. That you’re right, and valued so much that he’ll make the world the way you need for it to be. You’re not outmoded and he’s not The Man. You’re the good ones. That war might not have made sense but you’re a hero. And if all those liberals and blacks and illegals were just kept from destroying your way of life you could be doing much, much better. You could be reassured. Safe. What we all want to be.

The liberals those people are so afraid of have entirely different means to that end, but it’s the same end. Being safe. Being proud of who we are. We’ve tended to feel more invigorated by the new than threatened but that’s a whole different clump.

The tragedy here imo is that we liberals are doing a terrible job of helping them feel less threatened. We can be shocked they are so insular and reactionary and afraid and gullible, but we have those vulnerabilities under the right circumstances too. We want them to change but too often just reinforce the things that make it harder for them to do so. “Fuck you” has never saved a marriage in my years as a therapist. “I completely disagree with you; let’s figure out how we can both thrive” has, and if it’s an abusive one “I’m going to go find a way to make my life better” at least gets you out and toward finding your own comfort.

The biggest problem with the monster in our White House is that he likes reinforcing the fear because it’s a perfect control mechanism. His worst nightmare would be for us to be kind and interested in the people screaming his name. Without us as the enemy, he’s got nothing. And not shaming them does not mean rolling over. It just means realizing they’re people who have reasons, even ones we can’t let them act on because they’re harmful to us.

[shockey80]

20. Good post, There is still the factor of how people brains are wired.

I know people who are liberal, people I have known my whole life and they became Trump nuts. They voted for Obama. Some people are hard wired to think with their emotions. It overwhelms their critical thinking. They don't think things through. They emotionally make up their minds and that's it. At that point they start looking for verification, propaganda gives them verification. Some change and realize they are wrong after they lose everything or people die. Some never get it.

Remember how some people lost their minds after 911. Remember the Loose change video. Millions of Americans believed that bullshit.

I watched that video and laughed my ass off. I lost friends over that video. They emotionally believed that video with all their heart and soul.

[nolabear]

21. Yes. The wiring's much of it.

And I was getting long winded so didn’t go back to that. Cortisol is a really tough thing, and even prenatal cortisol affects wiring. Drugs, nutrition, anxiety of the mother, genetics...then your environment dictates what you have available to help. It can be helped, within limits. But change risks losing a connection to what you’ve relied on all your life.

[maryallen]

38. Wonderful explanation of the differences between us and them.

Thank you.

[moondust]

22. Might be worthwhile

to study Oklahoma. I'm sure there are lots of good people in OK and some of them probably post right here on DU. But you have to wonder about a state that seldom has a single COUNTY in the entire state vote Democratic in a Presidential election. Solid red. That's probably the closest I've seen in the U.S. to something resembling the Nazi cultism that engulfed Germany.

I've *guessed* that it may be some combination of how children are raised with heavy authoritarian pressure to conform at home and at school (similar to Germany) as well as the state's economy being heavily invested in fossil fuels. Historically, OK was formerly called Indian Territory where most Indian tribes owned black slaves, and they sided with the Confederacy.

[ck4829]

23. K&R. Their minds really are warped... Perception, cognition, memory

[Maeve]

24. I was in a fast-food place in a red county in Ohio the other day

And the guy at the next table (late-Boomer, from the looks of him) was gleefully--GLEEFULLY--talking RW politics; he referred to "Pocahantas" without even knowing which state she's from, wished for the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg so tRump could put in some 40-year-old conservative justice (hopefully 4 or more!) and babbled on about how the 'progressives' were communists and if Teddy Roosevelt, the early progressive, were alive today, he'd be a total RW-nut (the guy knows little and believes he knows ALL)...he has obviously been fed BS and believes it while doubting anything reality might throw his way.
Yeah, it's an altered state of reality.

[kimbutgar]

26. I wonder if the graphics on Fox hypnotize people?

I read that the CIA developed neuro linguistic brain washing techniques with ways to change ones opinion if they were vulnerable. It was a psychology class I had in the 70’s in college and the professor told our class that people can be brainwashed using sounds, colors and specific words. I can only stand about 5 minutes of Fox with the graphics, the bells ringing and talking idiot heads. But if someone is home listening to it for 5-10 hours a day which a lot of seniors do, they can be brainwashed without them realizing it. A lonely shut in is entertained by infotainment that is geared to one politicial party. I think Ailes in the 70’s read the same articles about neuro linguistic programming and utilized them on FOx. People that were Democratic voters and then start voting repuke because the words Democrats and liberal became associated with minorities, welfare cheats and anti patriotic.

[3catwoman3]

27. Now THERE'S a terrifying...

...thought.

This will keep me awake tonight.

[kimbutgar]

29. Sorry

Didn’t mean to make new nightmares but to enlighten and store for future knowledge.

[3catwoman3]

32. I never thought about this, but it certainly seems...

...possible.

It could explain the slavish, drooling devotion that is immune to all the glaring evidence that their idol is a flaming jackass.

[ck4829]

43. Pavlovian conditioning, it's quite clear it happens. Notice the word 'LIBERAL' on the screen

When they're talking about something horrible.

[3catwoman3]

28. Yes. They are...

...ALL fucking nuts!

[Blue_true]

30. I was recently talking to a person.

Educated and smart about the profession she works at. Really for worker rights and the environment. Does not trust big companies to do the right thing. Then a current events issue came up during the conversation, a 100% Trumper through and through, the type of person that thinks that Trump is some benevolent genius. So yes, there is significant brainwashing. From what I could discern, the person did not watch Fox News but was big on reading rightwing conspiracy sites. Some of the crazy shit that otherwise intelligent person spewed out was freaking astounding.

[3catwoman3]

33. As we all know, Trump is neither a genius, nor...

...is he benevolent.

Malevolent, yes.

[VOX]

34. Like their leader, Trumpists' exhibit Dunning-Kruger Effect -- zero knowledge, yet 100% conviction.

And a big part of this, IMO, is decades of cutting funds for education, and demonizing public education (“government schools”). Also hyper-religiousness, which renders a critical minds rigid. There aren’t many intelligent or wise people boosting Trump, as they can see through his con game, and want no part of it.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-supporters-dunning-kruger-effect-213904
The Psychological Quirk That Explains Why You Love Donald Trump
The popularity of the GOP front-runner can be explained by the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Politico.com May 25, 2016
By DAVID DUNNING
<snip>
Psychological research suggests that people, in general, suffer from what has become known as the Dunning-Kruger Effect. They have little insight about the cracks and holes in their expertise. In studies in my research lab, people with severe gaps in knowledge and expertise typically fail to recognize how little they know and how badly they perform. To sum it up, the knowledge and intelligence that are required to be good at a task are often the same qualities needed to recognize that one is not good at that task—and if one lacks such knowledge and intelligence, one remains ignorant that one is not good at that task. This includes political judgment.

We have found this pattern in logical reasoning, grammar, emotional intelligence, financial literacy, numeracy, firearm care and safety, debate skill, and college coursework. Others have found a similar lack of insight among poor chess players, unskilled medical lab technicians, medical students unsuccessfully completing an obstetrics/gynecology rotation, and people failing a test on performing CPR.

This syndrome may well be the key to the Trump voter—and perhaps even to the man himself. Trump has served up numerous illustrative examples of the effect as he continues his confident audition to be leader of the free world even as he seems to lack crucial information about the job.
<snip>
In voters, lack of expertise would be lamentable but perhaps not so worrisome if people had some sense of how imperfect their civic knowledge is. If they did, they could repair it. But the Dunning-Kruger Effect suggests something different. It suggests that some voters, especially those facing significant distress in their life, might like some of what they hear from Trump, but they do not know enough to hold him accountable for the serious gaffes he makes. They fail to recognize those gaffes as missteps.
<snip>
Again, the key to the Dunning-Kruger Effect is not that unknowledgeable voters are uninformed; it is that they are often misinformed—their heads filled with false data, facts and theories that can lead to misguided conclusions held with tenacious confidence and extreme partisanship, perhaps some that make them nod in agreement with Trump at his rallies.

Trump himself also exemplifies this exact pattern, showing how the Dunning-Kruger Effect can lead to what seems an indomitable sense of certainty. All it takes is not knowing the point at which the proper application of a sensible idea turns into malpractice.
<snip>

[lunatica]

40. I guess another thing with this Dunning-Kruger Effect

Last edited Sun Mar 24, 2019, 11:51 AM - Edit history (1)

is that they also simply don’t listen to someone who actually knows more than they do. It would explain a lot of my own experiences, but more importantly it also makes sense as to why Trump simply won’t listen to his intelligence briefers or generals or anyone who can enlighten him. It explains why he thinks he’s the only one who can handle Kim Jong-un. He’s a true believer.

He virtually believes, in complete sincerity that he has the answers and that only he can fix things. He isn’t lying like we think. In his mind he’s telling the truth.

But are his followers like that too? Would people like that ever follow someone else? Or is it that he’s a narcissist and they aren’t? Do they see him as just a more powerful version of themselves?

This is fascinating.

[roamer65]

35. They are INDOCTRINATED.

Reminds me a lot of the Mass Effect game saga.

They behave a lot like the characters of the game indoctrinated by the Reapers.

[Initech]

36. They're definitely the products of intense mental conditioning.

No one is born with that much hatred in their hearts, they earn that through being around it 24/7.

[Meowmee]

37. Unfortunately his supporters

Are not all magats etc. I heard someone last week tell a student when asked that he is a good prez, but he is an ass or something like that. It is hard to stomach that people who may seem reasonable in other ways are still supporting him and I’m sure they will vote for him again.

[struggle4progress]

39. "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

I am just a poor boy though my story’s seldom told
I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles
Such are promises: all lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest

[DFW]

41. I knew a former member of the Hitler Youth, who said the answer to that is yes.

He was about ten when the war ended, and he said they were so completely brainwashed, they believed every bit of propaganda they were fed. He said there was no other opinion, there was no other reality that they were allowed to be exposed to.

Their world fell apart after the war, when the Nazi propaganda apparatus was dismantled. He and his fellow HJ "classmates" had to relearn the reality of the world starting from scratch. Once he figured out what had been done to him, he was wary of anyone ever trying to tell him anything ever again. Actually, he got off easy. My wife's dad (they were later friends), about ten years older, was drafted off his farm at age 17 and sent as cannon fodder to Stalingrad. An artillery shell blew off one of his legs and he returned a cripple at age 18. He helped his younger friend back to reality when the war ended, as he knew better than anyone how "glorious" the Third Reich had been.

[allgood33]

42. Nope. They are just mean, evil, racist, and ill-informed. nt