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milestogo

(22,645 posts)
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:03 PM Mar 2019

Those Democrats who threw Al Franken under the bus should have put his actions into context.

I worked on the campaign of popular US Senator Russ Feingold in Wisconsin in 2010. I did phone banking, canvassing, etc. I read his position paper on every subject. One day I was standing near the front desk of his campaign office (which was full of volunteers) and in walks Senator Feingold. He probably recognized my face, but didn't know my name. He put his arm around my waist and gave me a kind of sideways hug that lasted a couple of seconds. I was delighted. It was a show of appreciation for all my hard work and it made everything worth it. To my knowledge no volunteer or employee has ever accused him of any kind of sexual harassment or impropriety. I can't even imagine it.

I was similarly delighted when John Kerry came to Madison in 2004 and I got to touch his hand, though mine was in a sea of other hands.

And if Joe Biden gave me a hug or touched my hand, I'd be thrilled.

Democrats look at their candidates as rock stars. At least I do.

I have zero doubt that Senator Franken's gesture was intended in a friendly way. Most of his female supporters would be delighted to get an arm around the waist from him. Al Franken has never been known as someone who treated women disrespectfully, and the accusations against him should have been interpreted in the light of his long history of respect for women and the fact that he is/was a comedian.

The loss of Al Franken from the Senate is tragic, but what's worse is that it shows that even Democrats cannot make judgments in the light of someone's history and probable intentions. Trump's comments should be interpreted in light of his total history of disrespect for women as shown by his behavior.

Context tells you the meaning of actions. Its the meaning that matters.

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tymorial

(3,433 posts)
1. The oh but what about is getting ridiculous.
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:08 PM
Mar 2019

Touching hands =/= smelling hair and kissing the back of ones head.

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
2. ppl please. these are OUR fucking civil servants. not a single human who ever lived should be
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:12 PM
Mar 2019

put on a pedestal.

milestogo

(22,645 posts)
4. Who is putting anyone on a pedestal?
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:19 PM
Mar 2019

That would imply that some of "our fucking civil servants" - as you refer to our esteemed Democratic leaders - have done something wrong and gotten away with it. This is not the case.

Hekate

(100,132 posts)
10. Nor should that so-called pedestal be turned into a pillory at the drop of a hat because...
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 05:27 PM
Mar 2019

...an excellent or good-enough person turns out to not be the Messiah. We'll be left with no-one to talk to or defend our own selves.

I simply don't put politicians on pedestals in the first place -- I recognize they are human beings with a job to do for the rest of us, and I expect them to do it ethically and well.

Part of the problem we face as a Party is our ability to turn on a dime against some of our best when they fail to be plaster saints. Anyone who wants a plaster saint need look no further rhan Mike "Handmaid's Tale" Pence, a fanatic who could give Cotton Mather a run for his money.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
3. Politicians tend to be hands on types of people.
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:16 PM
Mar 2019

Now they're learning that they have made people - women - uncomfortable. Hopefully they can learn from this.

Seems like in the Franken case he was not the "boss" of any of those women (unless I missed something?). Usually when considering sexual harassment, there is a power dynamic. That's why I found the Franken cases so puzzling. Also in the quick rush-to-judgment for Franken, the democrats missed an opportunity to address these issues and handle them correctly which would have created a learning experience for everyone. Instead, we now have more fear and discomfort around what is acceptable.

In the Biden issue with Flores, there is defiantly a power dynamic going on, so I do see why she was uncomfortable.

PS why doesn't spell check recognize "Franken?"

 

Rustyeye77

(2,736 posts)
5. It just started... The "LETS FRANKEN BIDEN" is begining
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:23 PM
Mar 2019

If people want perfection, good luck.

No grey area.

A friend of mine was accused of starring to long because his female co-worker FELT uncomfortable.
He didnt lose his job but it was a clusterf**k.

milestogo

(22,645 posts)
6. A few years ago I had a boss who wouldn't look me in the eye.
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:33 PM
Mar 2019

He was otherwise a great boss. Finally I asked him about it.

He told me that a friend of his at the same company had been accused of sexual harassment by his secretary. Not by saying anything. Not by touching her. Just by the way he looked at her. It didn't cost him his job, but they moved his secretary to another position and they felt it made him look bad. Possibly he was attracted to her and it showed in his face.

So my boss and a whole group of this guys work friends had become kind of paranoid. I reassured my boss that I was completely comfortable with him and that I would not take offense if he looked me in the eye, in fact it would make me feel better. We straightened it out.

 

Rustyeye77

(2,736 posts)
8. And welcome to Political Correctness on LSD
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 04:42 PM
Mar 2019

Glad you straightened it out.

At least you understand the paranoid confusion that otherwise innocent men in this society go thru.

Hekate

(100,132 posts)
13. I know a guy who is now 72 who got dinged at work a few years ago for calling colleagues "kiddo"
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 06:05 PM
Mar 2019

A few years before that someone complained about "Hon" or similar, which is probably when he settled on kiddo for both genders.

Has he ever harassed anyone? No. Has he ever touched anyone inappropriately? No. Demeaned anyone? No. Etcetera. There was no personnel action, just an informal chat.

But an old guy who treats everyone with respect and makes sure women who've been ignored get a promotion can't get a pass for an out-of-date term of comradeship and affection.

This one-size-fits-all New Puritanism makes us look ridiculous.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
11. They were too busy trying to be seen as catering ...
Sun Mar 31, 2019, 05:33 PM
Mar 2019

To the MeToo movement, to do something like trying to find out the truth. I would say that to ALL of them to their face.

To me KG is the real villainess of the piece since she refuses to admit she was wrong.
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