OWS Not DEAD But Police State Now Trying To Kill It

[TheMastersNemesis]

OWS has legitimate issues to protest on but it seems like we now have a militarized police an FBI and Homeland Security element that is determined to kill it in the guise of seeking terrorists. Bush and the GOP left enough of their right wingers in government to do mayhem. Obama either cannot or will not purge them from the bowels of our government. We can see these RW elements in high places refusing to enforce federal law.

The raids on the homes of people who are mere protesters wanting to protest and use their 1st Amendment to address the grievance of economic inequality and other injustices in the working class arena. So if we are not seeing OWS in the public forefront it is not because it is a washed up movement without an agenda. It is because of the aggressive harassment, muzzling and intimidation of American citizens who have every right to make their voice heard.

We now have police forces who are suppressing these people who are doing the bidding by people who would steal their pensions and take away their rights to collectively bargain. How ironic.

[CabCurious]

1. OWS needs to focus 100% on a very basic 1% & Wall Street message

Even the media did a better job conveying their message than they did.

Enough random slogans and "everybody has an equal say in the message" nonsense. No, both parties are NOT equally complicit in what's wrong in America. No, it's not more "democratic" to lose your message.

No, this isn't the place to protest meat and the Iraq war.

Focus!!!!

1. The financial sector is acting against the interests of the society. Wall Street & the 1% VS Main Street.
2. Register to Vote.

Every damn sign and slogan and chant needs to ONLY be about that this time.

[Fumesucker]

2. The Democrats have done such a great job cracking down on Wall Street..

[CabCurious]

12. I think we have bigger problems than prosecution totals

Corporate profits


Wages


Manufacturing vs Finance/Services



Military spending

[Fumesucker]

23. I was responding this statement of yours..

No, both parties are NOT equally complicit in what's wrong in America.

Both parties are complicit in the Wall Street behavior you were complaining about in that post, which was the point of the graph I posted.

Without severe punishment the behavior will not change and the Democrats damn sure aren't going to punish Wall Street.

[2pooped2pop]

3. really if you don't have the balls to do something yourself

y do you insist on getting on every single OWS thread and trashing them?

Maybe you should take your own ideas and start your own group.

We don't really need your anti OWS opinions.

All u seem to do is bitch about what someone else isn't doing right. Maybe you can do it better.

Go for it.

[randome]

5. How is it 'anti-OWS' to say they need to focus?

I don't get that. Unless you already know that will never happen and you're in denial about it.

If someone suggests that OWS needs to do things differently, many DUers simply double down on the rhetoric.

[CabCurious]

7. Exactly. I don't consider OWS a failure... I just think they've only scratched the surface

And nor do I think it's all up to OWS.

In spite of the attacks you can see of me, I've spent a LOT of effort focusing on economics.

[randome]

11. I don't know if you were on DU last year.

It was even worse than it is now. We were all right-wing trolls if we dared to question tactics or focus.

Now there is an OWS Activist Forum and the posts average about ten a week.

I wanted OWS to succeed, too, but it has been clear for a long time now that it will never be more than it is now unless it develops leadership and focus.

I fear for those who put all their hopes into this one basket because how will they feel when reality finally sets in?

[CabCurious]

19. Very fair points. I still believe OWS has done much more good than not

And I certainly focus much of my own DU efforts on economic talking points. I hope to continue.

(in spite of the constant personal attacks)

[tama]

32. Very good

let's dig deeper, here and now. You have the talking stick and we - all readers - would like you to share your insights about the root causes of our problems and what else you have on your heart and mind. Please continue with our full attention!

[randome]

36. The root cause is, of course, money.

Close the tax loopholes. All of them. Focus on that one thing and I think the U.S. would be a better place.

[tama]

37. I have come to same conclusion

Root cause is money as measure of value, as fetish of power, and as current system based on debt and interest and continuous exponential growth of the monetary system.

[2pooped2pop]

14. and I have seen posters explain over and over to you

until they all just give up on your willful inability to understand. If you were not so busy trying to discredit them, you could take the time to see what is happening.

I see now why the other posters have stopped replying to the anti OWS posters. It's like you can't understand anything.

I will quit responding to people who know how Occupy should be ran and what should be done but really has never been there and has no clue on the truth.

bye Random. I laughed at so many of your bits. But I gotta let you and cab go. Talking to either of you is too similar to talking to a low income republican. Mind boggling and best left alone.

[randome]

17. So only YOU can tell OWS how to operate. No one else?

Nice little dictatorship you have going there! Not quite the socialist paradise you had in mind, I think.

You want to offer something positive for OWS? Okay, here goes.

THEY NEED TO FOCUS!

[CabCurious]

20. so anybody who says OWS needs to refocus their message is a fascist dictator...

[randome]

30. You are all my chibis now! Bow down before my dictator-ish ways!

[tama]

29. Directing all attention

into what others or an abstract entity should be doing is not very focused state or action. It's rather quite distracted and distracting.

[randome]

31. If OWS is abstract, how can it achieve solid victories?

An abstract organization? Have to admit, that sounds new. It doesn't sound very productive, either.

Whether one wants to see things from the side of law enforcement or OWS, the simple, unalterable truth is that OWS spends more time talking about police tactics than they do about the problems that need to be solved.

Whoever's fault it is, the message has been diluted.

[tama]

33. Abstract noun

like all names for all organisations and movements. What we can do here and now, to focus in this thread? We can for example to change our own focus from blame games and guilt trips and being victimized to turning this discussion thread into online version of OWS or similar talking focusing on attentive and supportive listening.

You brought out a very important issue which I fully agree on, giving too much attention to police tactics which gives arise to emotions of fear, frustration and suffocated rage, which we - as is very humane - all too easily start to project and pass onto each other.

We need to stay conscious about our problems, but not to stay overly focused on problems alone, so that we don't suffocate under the overbearing weight of all our problems. A question we can all ask ourselves when recognizing a problem and becoming conscious of it, is what are the causes, how do I participate in creation of this problem and can I, from my part, stop causing this problem here and now? If I can't, is there something I can do to alleviate the emotional stress and other symptoms of the problem, here and now?

[a geek named Bob]

6. Most of the messages

From my local OWS were about Wall Street.

I'm not sure why OP wants to tell OWS what to do.

[2pooped2pop]

8. I don't either but it is a pattern for that poster. n/t

[CabCurious]

15. oh here we go with the personal attacks again

(you guys are part of the problem)

[a geek named Bob]

27. Poor Baby

You make purple prose comments...

You get called on them.

Deal.

Were I to make a personal attack, I'd say something like...

"Obviously, CabCurious is here to push his RW talking points, in a pathetic attempt to garner any sort of attention. A trait he is sadly lacking IRL."

But that would be mean and petty, so I won't do that.

[CabCurious]

10. I'm glad to hear some local OWS were focused.

That certainly wasn't true here in NYC or nationally.

And no, I won't forget your flames.

[a geek named Bob]

25. tsk tsk tsk

You really are into the martyrship thing, aren't you...



Is there a reason you don't like to post facts, relying instead on purple prose?

If you want to remember my comments, I'll do some wood work... I'll make you a trophy of your attempts, done in wood burned ash.

Back to OWS...

There's a Facebook page (or two) that show pretty good numbers for OWS (the main page reads at 395,000 followers). The core messages seem to be that we need the money out of politics, re-establish Glass-Steagall, bring back the Clinton Era taxes (if not the Eisenhower level taxes), remove the tribute-like tax subsidies for corporations outsourcing/off-shoring jobs, and they'd also like to see more solar/wind power.

That's a pretty cohesive message.

Also, Lacking a core leadership group, there's precious few chances of "The Man" doing a systemic black bag job, and systemically decapitating the leadership/C3I of the group.

Power to OWS! Power to the People!

[a geek named Bob]

28. THe same thing happened in the 60's

There was a core message, and a lot of side messages.

OWS is doing well, thank you.

We don't need your "leadership" skills.

Come to that, I've noticed a lot of attempted takeover bids, by various political groups.

The RW seems to want them to become good little tea-baggers. The Blue-dog democrats want OWS to shut up and vote Dem straight down the ballot, regardless of record. The socialists have tried take-over attempts that are laughable.

The big news right now seems to be the Oakland legal fight.

Thanks for playing.

[CabCurious]

13. Feel free to contribute to any of the ECONOMICS threads

Would love the extra "balls".

[notundecided]

34. OWS is just another word for Passion

You have to have passion to be involved in OWS. Sadly, some have it but most don't. It's not a matter of just having "the Balls" to be involved.

[randome]

4. I suppose you mean the raids in Portland, right?

The ones that valid search warrants were issued for. I guess that's a sure sign that everyone is out to stop OWS.

Hyperbole.

[lunatica]

9. The fact that the police have been sent in with such obvious violent tactics

says volumes. OWS in itself isn't a great threat since the members have insisted on being peaceful. But the idea of what they're protesting and what they represent has taken on a life of its own. That is still here and I believe its here to stay. The active memeber of OWS may get crushed, but the symbols of their idea is already part of our language. It's part and parcel of the American dialogue now. When we say the "1%" and the "99%" we are using the symbols of language to encompass a very complicated and complex and layered concept. When anyone says "the 1%" everyone knows what it means.

That's what the OWS has done. It has focused the concept of the myriad complexity of our modern society and government into one symbolic word. No one should underestimate the power of such a thing. The OWS has done a great job of causing that paradigm shift we all needed to understand what the truth is. It's something worth pondering and analyzing and being thankful for.

[CabCurious]

16. Both points, spot on

OWS really, really did change the entire GLOBAL discussion. We were barely talking about the underlying issues of the economy.

But the message got lost. IMO, the creation of "live-in camps" also helped to distract from the message.

That isn't to say they failed, at all. And it's not over.

[2pooped2pop]

18. I know, and you know

but these two will deny deny deny. It does make one wonder why but don't waste your breath trying to explain anything to those dead-set on not learning.

[pintobean]

22. That's a two way street.

"deny deny deny" "trying to explain anything to those dead-set on not learning"

Others may see those statements as applying to you.

The fact that OWS has just about fizzled out indicates that there are serious problems. Trying to shut down discussions that try to identify those problems seems counterproductive.

[2pooped2pop]

24. now how can people who are dead set on slamming

OWS and know nothing about it, help them? THey think the camping was a bad idea. Duh, the camping is what got the nation watching.

I don't think that people who have never attended OWS has any business trying to "fix" it.

Start your own movement, then we'll talk.

[raouldukelives]

21. It's the damn money.

You can find a lot of people who agree with the Occupy! message. You can find a lot of people who say we shouldn't invade countries for oil. You can find people who are against Monsanto or deep water drilling and climate change. That's pretty easy.
It is much, much harder to find people who will then disconnect from Wall St after learning of the horrors. They will agree 1000%. They will gnash their teeth and shout something must be done! They will never look in the mirror and stop being part of the problem.

[ananda]

26. Regressive policing is truly the shame of our country!

Occupy.

[starroute]

35. I keep an eye on Occupy Philadelphia by way of Facebook

I assume it's a public page so you don't need a Facebook account to view it. At any rate here's the link: http://www.facebook.com/OccupyPhiladelphia

They seem very active -- but they're not occupying or confronting the cops or doing big, public protests. Instead, they have a constant stream of local activism going, much of which seems to be at the neighborhood level.

One thing I see is that a lot of what they address appears designed to overcome the traditional complaint that most protest movements consist of white, middle class people with no direct involvement by the poor and minorities. The plight of minimum wage workers, excessive incarceration, attacks on the public schools -- those are all solid inner-city issues, but seeing them from the Occupy perspective turns them from local grievances into indictments of the 1%.

There are also plans under way for a large-scale, first-anniversary demonstration around Wall Street on September 17. I have no idea whether that will come off or not, but I think the real future for OWS -- at least over the next year or two -- is to ooze into all the cracks of our decaying society, doing good works and making important alliances. If they can carry that off successfully, something very different and far more powerful may hatch out.