I may be wrong on this, but I'm guessing that freepers are NOT holding candlelight vigils today.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Teddy showed us a few things.

First, you can fuck up, or you can fuck up on a grand scale...and if you do, in the eyes of some people, nothing you do from that point forward will redeem you.

I'm a Christian, and as anyone who's read my posts knows, I really don't give a shit if you are or not. It's my decision, my belief, but that said...I lean toward the "let he who is free of sin cast the first stone" logic.

Mary Jo Kopechne's death was a "defining moment" in Ted Kennedy's life, but it didn't define the man. I'm going to assume that as he approached his final breath, that July 18, 1969 day in Chappaquiddick passed through his thoughts one final time. He either died in peace or he didn't. He couldn't change the events of that day. He couldn't bring Mary Jo back from the dead. He couldn't add minutes, or seconds, to the span of his own life. Three years ago today, whatever weight Ted Kennedy carried on his shoulders over that day...crushing or none at all...was permanently lifted and he went wherever you think you're going to go when you die.

Today can be a day for remembering the good that he did accomplish, or condemning him one more time for Chappaquiddick. Some folks will engage in a mix of both.

He was human. He fucked up. He did accomplish things in his lifetime that continue to make some lives better. He was human. He wasn't perfect. Just like me. Just like you. On this day, the third anniversary of his passing, that's what I have to say about Ted Kennedy.

[MADem]

1. I think they might be too busy chortling over Mittsy's birther comments, or trying to

hold a vigil to keep Isaac away from Tampa.

[George II]

10. Let's hope they're updating their passports......

....getting visas, and making arrangements to leave the country.

[MADem]

12. Question is, who will have them? North Korea? Syria, maybe? nt

[PDJane]

2. I'm with you, and I personally believe the man was as good as humans get.

[mazzarro]

3. I wish that Ted Kennedy lived longer - for at least Obama's first term

I wish that Ted Kennedy was alive today. I believe that ACA would have come out differently if he were alive when it passed. I believe that he would have pushed for it better than was done and it would not have involved all the backyard deals to came to burden it today. Besides Kennedy would have been a firebrand that would have pushed Obama to be more wary of making deals with centrist to the extent he did and now is hamstrung by all the compromises he made with them.

[BrainMann1]

4. So in other words

He was a christian that FUCKED UP! And he needed another christian to say he fucked up. WOW! What's that got to do with Mitt? Sorry guys I had to say something. OH by the way I'm 1/3 christian 1/3 morman 1/3 muslam.

[FlaGranny]

5. You should at least

be able to spell your three religions.

[Skittles]

13. LOL

I thought exactly the same thing

[nolabear]

32. Yes, he put one too many "m"s in one of them.

[lunatica]

7. You need help with math and the concept of parental lineages

things like that can make you crazy

[Marr]

9. That's like saying you're 1/3 Whig, 1/3 Republican, and 1/3 Brady Bunch fan.

Religion isn't part of your genetic code, for fuck's sake.

[Jamaal510]

11. Hmm...1/3 Christian, 1/3 Mormon, and 1/3 Muslim...

[IMG][/IMG]

[Ineeda]

14. That makes you 100%

um...just like Mitt, except for the Mormon part?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

15. No, it's more like 1/4 christian, 1/4 "morman," 1/4 "muslam," and 1/4 one other thing...

...which shall remain nameless.

Thank you for your "contribution" to my thread.

[Cha]

18. Hey, one out of 3

ain't bad for...you know..

[progressoid]

29. I know it's not nice to laugh at the less fortunate but...

[The Doctor.]

33. No, actually you didn't have to say anything.

Sometimes threads at DU are not about what YOU think they should be about, but about important people, events, and in this case, remembrances.

Remember the old saying: "Better to be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt."?

Well, learn to spell the religions you pretend to be a part of at least.

Enjoy your stay.

[WilliamPitt]

41. Oh my fucking GOD

I love this person so much.

[CreekDog]

42. What difference does it make where you buy underwear?

[BlairWitch]

45. Really?

Well I'm 6/10 water, less than 2/10 carbon and so on.

[lunatica]

6. I'd like to say that he did more for this country than his brothers John and Robert did together

and no one ever seems to notice that.

And I'm certainly not putting my idols John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy down! But I like to acknowledge Ted Kennedy. He was a true servant of the people from a family that should put most wealthy families to shame.

[calimary]

24. The Kennedy patriarchs had a few things to atone for.

And I think their family DID do just that. They embodied "noblesse oblige" - to quote Wikipedia, from the French: "nobility obliges." Or as we say around our house, "much blessed, much obligated." In terms of the level and extent of their collective public service, I think they very much atoned for whatever sins their forefathers - and even they themselves - committed. Because they used their wealth, power, and elite status for the benefit of the greater good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige

It's how you live your life. If you're able to do more, you damn well SHOULD. If you're able to give more, DAMMIT, you SHOULD. SUIT UP, dammit, and get yer ass out there and help somebody. Your advantaged position fucking DEMANDS it. You're blessed to the skies? Born to wealth and privilege? Then you're fucking OBLIGATED, pal. You may not have any financial debts, but you still owe, BIGTIME. DO something, other than just generate and then hide money. DO something that may or may not benefit you directly, line your pockets, make you famous, or gain you power. They used their wealth and power and influence to do good for those who weren't so privileged. It's like reagan kept saying - "are you better off today than you were (fill-in-the-blank-here) years ago?" Well, are you? Are we? Are we better off, overall, because the Kennedys came our way? And that includes Ted. I think we are.

[Chorophyll]

8. Amerigo, I think you have perfectly defined the difference between liberals and

conservatives.

Conservatives don't change. They latch onto an idea and hang onto it no matter how much evidence comes up to prove it wrong. And because they never change, they don't understand that other people can, and do.

Therefore, in conservative eyes, if a man commits a crime he's a criminal for life. He might spend decades after that crime doing great and even heroic things, but a conservative simply won't see that.

Conservative Christians claim to believe in redemption, but they don't even know the meaning of the word. In my eyes, Senator Kennedy was redeemed well before he died.

Anyway, thanks for a great post, and for the reminder of this sad anniversary.

[MadHound]

16. We all fuck up, but the difference between Ted Kennedy and the rest of us

Is that the power, money and influence he and his family wielded allowed him to walk away from that tragedy. If you or I had been drunk, crashed and a person died due our negligence we would have gone straight to prison.

Sorry, but it doesn't matter who you are, if somebody dies due to your fuck up, you should pay the consequence.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

19. And George Zimmerman is a fucking punk who may walk for killing Trayvon Martin in cold blood.

I'm not going to debate the "power, money and influence he and his family wielded" with you...I know who the Kennedys were, and they certainly weren't saints.

All I'm going to do is throw Zimmerman into the discussion, because his daddy was a magistrate and his mommy was a court clerk but other than that he's not jack shit, and he very well could walk away from the murder of a teenager without a scratch.

And I seriously doubt that Zimmerman's contributions to society will come close to Ted Kennedy's.

I did my best to carefully word my original post. In case I failed, let me state it once again: there is no way whatsoever to look at Mary Jo Kopechne's death and "make it right." Ted Kennedy certainly wasn't able to do that in his lifetime. And my post wasn't an attempt to "gloss over" or "forgive" him for the events of that day. I'm in no position to judge anyone...no Ted Kennedy, not you, NO ONE.

Would he have gone to jail if he "weren't a Kennedy?" Maybe.

But realize this. George Zimmerman looked the unarmed Trayvon Martin in the eyes and fed him a bullet. No "power, money and influence he and his family wielded." Just a delusional, paranoid, "self-appointed neighborhood watch captain" who killed an unarmed black kid that most of the people in that Florida town could give a flying fuck for.

The justice system isn't perfect. If you think Ted Kennedy didn't pay a price in the court of public opinion, all I can say is that my wish is that you never get the opportunity to stand in his shoes. And don't even get me started on George W. Bush lying us into the Iraq war and the THOUSANDS of people who were killed, maimed, and permanently fucked up physically and / or mentally while he sat on his drunken ass in Texas playing Nintendo.

[MadHound]

21. Maybe? Go look at the police blotter for the past forty years,

Unless somebody has power and influence, if they've fucked up like Kennedy did, driving drunk, having an accident that cost a human life, fleeing the scene of the crime, they would be in the slammer in a New York second. No maybes about it.

As far as your bringing Zimmerman into this case, all I have to say is that two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, we don't know whether Zimmerman will be doing time or not.

Ooo, pay the price in the court of opinion, what a steep price that was Living in luxury, surrounded by all the perks that money and power bring. So he may have not gotten the presidency, you know what, I think that is a small price to pay for having the blood of an innocent on your hands.

You can rationalize this however you choose, but the simple stark facts of the matter is that Kennedy got away with killing an innocent human being. Just because he was a stalwart of the Democratic party doesn't mean he should get a pass, after all, Democrats, who supposedly believe in equality and justice, should be better than that.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

22. Well, if you're going to play the sarcasm card with your little smilies...

...all I can say is "have a nice day" and see ya later.

[MadHound]

23. What, can't argue the facts?

Can't hide your hypocrisy?

Well, just continue to be a nice little Kennedy fanboy. It's your face that is covered with egg.

[adigal]

25. He did pay a price - he never got to be President

Which he wanted very badly. I do agree that if he wer Jo Schmo he would have gone to prison, and his family's money and power got him off the hook. So, what else is new?

[MadHound]

34. So we should just blow this by because it is THE Ted Kennedy?

So he never got to be president, the man should have gone to jail. Just because this happens with others who are wealthy and powerful doesn't mean we should give it a pass.

[adigal]

35. You are ignoring The good he did do in his life

Does that count for anything?

[MadHound]

36. So why not let others loose who've done the same crime, but are still in jail.

After all, they just might do good with their lives as well

The man took an innocent woman's life through negligence and gross irresponsibility. Worse yet, he abandoned her in her time of need in order to protect his own interests. There needs to be a consequence for such an act, and not getting the presidency is hardly a consequence.

Should every drunk driver who kills a passenger get to walk as well?

[4th law of robotics]

44. Wow what a harsh punishment

If you or I had killed someone in this manner do you suppose the sentence would have been that you can't ever be president (but Senator is fine).

[Missycim]

37. I agree with you 100%

But like to add we'd probably never get past the post of dog catcher if we killed a person while drunk driving.

[4th law of robotics]

43. Amen

If one of the little people (ie the 99%) had done what Teddy did they'd probably still be in jail.

It's good to be king.

[Ineeda]

46. Laura Bush should have paid too?

And John McCain? And I'm sure a thousand others. But nobody talks about the deaths Pickles and McGrampy caused. Ted paid plenty. Pickles and McGrampy? Not at all.

[randome]

17. Neil Armstrong died today.

I cannot conceive of Conservatives feeling the same sense of loss as we do.

They commemorate little. They denigrate everything else.

[demosincebirth]

20. I liked Kennedy later in life. During the late seventies he sponsered a bill to deregulate the

trucking industry and it was signed by Carter. When that bill became law the decline of the unionized trucking industry started. In the nine years following, over 400,000 union jobs were lost to nonunion start ups who under cut wages and benefits of those paid by union companies. Ninety percent of the of the trucking companies went under because they could not compete with the low wage start ups

[Missycim]

38. I didn't know that.

I am in the trucking industry and pray to God everyday that the Unions would come back. Its murder out here, pay wise.

[southernyankeebelle]

26. You are so right. On that day his life changed forever. Funny thing is people on earth who

hated him could never forgive him. But I bet when he went to meet god on his judgement day he forgave him. We are supposed to forgive people after all we are humans. I don't know anyone who doesn't make a terrible mistake they could wish they could take back. I am sure Ted wished it never happened. I am sure he didn't want her to die. He was a mixure of good and bad. I try to remember all the good he did up to the end of his life. I didn't realize he has been dead 3 yrs already. He is missed in the senate that is for sure.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

27. Wikipedia refers to her as a "Boiler Girl"...

...she worked in an office in his campaign headquarters that was next to the boiler room and had no ventilation and was noisy as Hell.

What happened was tragic. What happened should never have happened. I don't think Kennedy would have deliberately harmed a single hair on her head for any reason.

The main point of my OP...which some people have chosen to ignore, as is their right...is that he fucked UP. He made a major, major mistake, and a life was lost as a result.

He knew that.

We knew that.

It doesn't make his actions on that day "right."

But you're right...we are supposed to forgive, and it is the only way that we can expect forgiveness in return.

I'm sure some have established a "fair price" that Ted could have paid. Well, he died without paying it. He carried the events of that day with him until the day he died. Maybe it killed him inside, maybe he forgave himself right after it happened. We'll never know.

But life is about patterns. When we look at the way some of out other high-profile politicians have lived their lives, the pain and suffering they have caused is often much more deliberate, much more consistent.

Ted fucked up.

It followed him, like a shadow, for every single day for the rest of his life.

He tried to do good with the days he had left.

Some people have chosen to piss on that notion, and I can't do anything about it.

Ted Kennedy wasn't a saint.

he was a human being who fucked up, tragically.

Calling for his head on a pike three years after his death only diminishes those making that call.

[southernyankeebelle]

28. Your right. Like you I try to remember the good he and his family as a whole did for the working

people in this country. Have you had a chance to read Chris Matthews book on JFK? It really is good. If you haven't try and read it. I always remembered how my own Italian Nonna who never came to the states loved President Kennedy. She had a picture of St Mary and President Kennedy on her wall. When we were visiting her President Kennedy came over to Germany, France and Italy. I remember in Naples when he came through the streets were crowded with people who wanted to see the first catholic president. People loved him. My mother named my youngest brother after President Kennedy. Now talk about a day that changed history. After he died then MLK and RFK well things were never the same. We don't have anyone fighting for the poor people like they did. You don't see any of them in very poor neighborhoods. Where is our JFK, MLK and RFK? I thought Obama would be one. He turned out to disappoint me. But he still is our best chance.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

30. I think our JFK, MLK or RFK is further down the road, and I don't think it's Obama.

The primary reason I think Romney is going to lose in November is that he's Romney. I think the single reason why Obama is going to get a second term is that the Republicans simply don't have a contender. If they had been able to produce a candidate with charisma and substance, rather than one who has neither, I'd bet the farm on Obama being a one-term President.

Of course, it's because he inherited the "shit end of the stick" following 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

Personally, in my world, including my own circumstances and the people I know and love, things have not gotten better under an Obama Presidency. They have gotten worse. And it doesn't really matter of it's "his fault." Pain is pain.

I just don't see greatness in Obama. It might happen in the second term. It most certainly has not in the first.

[southernyankeebelle]

31. Well I can say we are holding steady. But we have to help my son and his family. We

can't manage to save any money. They have 2 kids and a terrible health care plan that isn't worth shit. But things are looking up for him. After 13 yrs of being a cook he finally is getting to be a manager. I think he will do good because he always puts his customers first. They put him in a store that is having problems and they think he can turn it around. I hope he can. There is an awful lot of anixety out in the country. I felt it before Obama got into office and I feel it has gotten worse. I am willing to give Obama a 2d chance because I sure don't want what the republicans have in mind to put women back years. I tell you one thing if this country doesn't start getting back to caring for one another we will be in deep trouble. Republicans are suppose to be christains. Somehow they forgot that in their teaching. They are to concerned with getting into peoples bedroom.

[Missycim]

39. True believers

dont think the way you said, anyone can be forgiven of any sin if they are repentant and ask God to forgive them, but he should have paid an earthly price for what he did. You and I wouldn't have been so lucky.

[Missycim]

40. I understand people are

more forging of others when their beliefs line up with theirs, but I still haven't heard what price Ted paid for doing what he did. I am glad he devoted his life to progressive goals and also for the poor but I consider drunk driving at least 1st degree manslaughter and at best it cost him the Presidency.