I'm getting sick of the spinelessness.

[FreshStart1]

If 1/3rd of the crap that is going on now would of went on in the 60's, there would be rioting in the streets.

Trump and his minions have abused their power several times, and it has damn near became a dictatorship.

Mainly because the dems have done little to stop it.

Enough is enough! Get rid of this flying circus called the trump admin and return our country to it's normal and former self!

[Progressive dog]

1. Are "the Dems" supposed to be rioting in the streets?

I'm getting sick of that story. If you want to riot in the streets, go ahead.

[still_one]

2. The spineless ones were those self-identified progressives that refused to vote for the Democratic

nominee in 2016

[triron]

3. Well that is water under the bridge now, isn't it?

[ProudLib72]

8. Have you been over to the primaries forum?

[CousinIT]

4. Pelosi says The Devil isn't worth dividing the country w/ impeachment. I see her point, BUT...

....The Devil is quickly DESTROYING our country.

Given a choice between temporary division of our country and semi-permanent destruction of it (it would take DECADES to get back to a Republic if he's in there another 2-6 years), I'd go with the division.

[triron]

5. I believe Pelosi's stance is weak itself. Sorry.

[Pope George Ringo II]

6. So what's the endgame?

The Senate acquits...then what? Is a Trump victory lap that important to you? What else comes from a failed impeachment?

[BeyondGeography]

11. Trump loves that line of thought so very much

Rather than watch him age 10 years in the next 18 months while we hang his dirty laundry out for all to see, he gets to scream “witch hunt!,” “Obama spied!,” and “squirrel!” Meantime we keep our powder dry and our white gloves on.

Superb.

[Pope George Ringo II]

16. Oh, rest assured, I want his dirty laundry laid out. But a defeat at the end is a defeat.

The House can do full investigations, committees can do targeted investigations, the House as a whole can issue resolutions condemning individuals and actions. We can certainly have his family and goons on camera defending their actions in public. None of the productive components of impeachment require an actual impeachment.

My question remains, though: Why deliberately fuck all of that up by handing him a Senate acquittal at the end? Are you that interested in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and seeing if his victory lap can break Twitter?

[BeyondGeography]

19. Holding fire is a gigantic missed opportunity

And that includes the Senate angle. So what if we mount a persuasive case against Trump and it dies in the Senate? Use that as a club to beat 22 incumbent Republican Senators over the head with in 2020. They’re just as happy as Trump with our hands-off strategy. They’ll be able to pose as reasonable lawmakers next fall instead of being called out for the hacks that they are.

It would shock me if it comes to that though. Our Speaker has already said it’s not worth it in so many words. She believes we’ll take out Trump and the Senate on policy discussions alone. I think she’s wrong. I think she should start every day by correcting a lie that Trump told the previous day and take it from there. 2020 is not a referendum on Obamacare, it’s all about Trump.

[Pope George Ringo II]

21. "So what if it dies in the Senate?" Really?

It's not a witch hunt until Mitch McConnell declares it a witch hunt. I want him investigated, his people answering to House committees, his paper trail responding to House subpoenas, and House resolutions speaking out against his behavior.

The only difference I can see is that you want him acquitted by the Senate. I am still wondering why you would want that. Please, offer an explanation of what a Senate acquittal accomplishes. That's the moment a "President under investigation" becomes the victim of a "witch hunt." Why turn it into a witch hunt?

[BeyondGeography]

23. That's a highly debatable point

What’s not debatable to me at least is the value of public impeachment hearings in the House that fully expose Trump’s corrupt motives vis Russia, his fundamental disloyalty and his manifold violations of the Constitution and the rule of law. Put that under a spotlight and force the media to talk about nothing else for as long as it takes. That’s how you shame Senate Republicans if they still stay in line.

I really can’t believe more Democrats don’t see it this way. What I’m seeing is political malpractice in super-slow motion. The only real punches we throw are at each other.

[Pope George Ringo II]

25. But why is it so important to destroy everything by calling them "impeachment" hearings?

We know impeachment proceedings die in the Senate. Period. This is math, this is reality. There is no serious argument that McConnell's Senate will do anything but give Trump a gift.

So why not do all of those things which constitute House impeachment proceedings as normal (well, as normal as anything these days) House oversight? No Senate exoneration at the end, no need to wrap things up and let the Senate give Trump a gift. Do it on our timetable, with the process serving the means of the American people since the ends of impeachment proceedings won't. Then maybe turn all the records over to the SDNY in February 2021 and let somebody with integrity act on what the House finds.

There's no need to fuck it all up by sending it to the Senate and letting McConnell officially stamp it as a witch hunt. Roast his entire crime family for a couple of years over an open House and keep it out of McConnell's hands, but don't give him the gift of impeachment acquittal.

[lunatica]

12. Excellent point.

Man! Would that be a victory lap! It makes me cringe to even think about it!

[Pope George Ringo II]

20. You want to feel even worse about impeachment?

Suppose we do take all the existing House machinery for investigations, oversight, and condemning resolutions, and deliberately shackle that valuable process to a failed impeachment which was never going anywhere in the Senate. It's bad enough that it's not officially a witch hunt until McConnell gloatingly declares it a witch hunt, but what's his timetable for that? Does he really have to do it at all? Is March 2021 good? How about March 2026? July 2075? The courts seem to think impeachments are a political proceeding and don't like second-guessing Congress, so who's going to force him to have a reasonable timetable with a serious hearing? Trump?

Or maybe he just waits until the GOP needs a PR victory to distract from some other disaster, trots out the committee report, votes to acquit the next day, and a problem vanishes for the entire Republican Party. The only thing worse than giving Trump a victory lap would be letting him save it for when he'd otherwise have been in the hot seat, and that's something I wouldn't put it past them to engineer.

[still_one]

18. It should be voting

[Pope George Ringo II]

22. Voting when?

When they need a PR victory to distract from a Trump scandal? Or to rile up their base? Regardless of when (or even if) they hold it, Cornyn is going to campaign on his vote to acquit. What's Manchin going to do his next election?

Did we really learn nothing from the Mueller report "exonerating" Trump?

[still_one]

27. Obviously 2020, because too many people didn't vote in 2016, or believed the lie that there was no

difference between the Democrats and republicans.

I am talking about voting in the general election for President and Congress

[Paladin]

7. History isn't going to be kind to Democrats about how bad things have become.

Playing according to out-of-date good conduct rules has allowed trump and his goons to prevail, time and again. Enough, already.

[PeeJ52]

9. What do want? Twitter is burning up over this? Emergency rooms are overflowing with sprained thumbs

They are doing everything they can do... This is the world...

[tritsofme]

10. This sort of criticism is nonsense. Why aren't you "rioting in the streets" right now?

You’ve also clearly never lived under a “dictatorship”

Democrats control one half of one third of the federal government. Your expectations are unrealistic, we need to focus on 2020.

[Codeine]

13. Our party doesn't have the ability

to remove the President. This isn’t about spine, or lack thereof; it’s just basic reality. It’s math.

Rioting in the street would accomplish fuck all, by the way. This ridiculous meme keeps popping up on DU because a handful of naive people have convinced themselves that street demonstrations actually accomplish things. Voting accomplished things. There are more of us than there are of them, but we don’t vote. We bitch. We moan. We decry and gesticulate and gnash our teeth when all we need to do is get our base up and voting and we would win every time.

[mcar]

14. What are you doing?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. Guess it's time to organize a riot, then. Hop to it!

[sarisataka]

17. When and where

Is your riot?

Or is this just another 'somebody (else) should do something' post?

[BeyondGeography]

24. So is Rick Wilson

As usual, anyone counting on the Democrats not to blow it this week was disappointed. Democrats failed to hold Barr to any meaningful account in the hearings this week, asking questions in an oblique, diffident manner that mirrored Barr’s cool affect. They whispered when they needed to shout. They threw underhand softballs when they should have brought the heat. They were lulled into a trance, still believing they can shame the shameless or trap Barr and Trump with some kind of bluff.

The fact the Democrats aren’t already in court to get the full, unredacted Mueller report is exactly the kind of behavior that happens in nations slipping from democracy to authoritarianism. They think this is procedural and political, not existential. There are no brakes, no white knight in DOJ to come to the rescue, and unless Democrats get the entire report in court, Barr, Trump, and Fox will write the history of this sorry affair.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/william-barr-is-the-most-dangerous-man-in-america?ref=author

[COLGATE4]

26. Certainly there's nothing left to add to Rick Wilson's

cogent analysis.

[stillcool]

28. I'm a democrat..

but know nothing that I could have done differently to change the course we are on...and I don't know what the 3 people that represent me in D.C. could do differently either. i think a work-around is in order, because the law no longer applies to the GOP. I don't think it will be found in Roberts Rules of Order, but I hope it involves 'we the people' taking a bigger part in our society.