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90-percent

(6,850 posts)
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:12 AM Apr 2019

Why is Barr SEEMINGLY choosing TREASON over PATRIOTISM?

His family and descendants will be subjected to this far-more-egregious-than-Benedict-Arnold legacy for as long as recorded history still exists.


The way these lifelong elites make their career decisions is beyond my comprehension.

And it's way to late for me to "go sociopath". I could not bring myself to do what they do. I'm cursed with this basic sense of human decency.

Why take a lifetime bullet for such a loathsome crime family?

-90% Jimmy

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why is Barr SEEMINGLY choosing TREASON over PATRIOTISM? (Original Post) 90-percent Apr 2019 OP
This isn't his first time serving as the GOP "fixer". redstatebluegirl Apr 2019 #1
There is something out in the media about Barr having worked for Russian interests sarabelle Apr 2019 #48
Barr is inherently a traitor. democratisphere Apr 2019 #2
What enemy? zipplewrath Apr 2019 #3
I think the idea is edhopper Apr 2019 #5
Mueller disagrees zipplewrath Apr 2019 #7
We don't really know what Mueller found edhopper Apr 2019 #14
Sorta agree zipplewrath Apr 2019 #17
You mean Barr claims that Mueller says that Barr is OK? lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #27
No zipplewrath Apr 2019 #31
Barr said that Mueller said there was no conspiracy with Russian Government OFFICIALS. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #41
Yup zipplewrath Apr 2019 #42
We have no idea what Mueller's criteria may or may not have been, nor his real conclusions. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #43
Actually we do zipplewrath Apr 2019 #44
You seem stuck on the idea that Barr isn't lying. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #45
Not exactly zipplewrath Apr 2019 #47
You are stuck on the idea he is lying. former9thward Apr 2019 #50
Barr is demonstrably evasive, at the very least. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #53
*sigh* this isn't treason as defined by the Constitution Fiendish Thingy Apr 2019 #4
But he is protecting edhopper Apr 2019 #6
We have diplomatic relations with Russia onenote Apr 2019 #9
true enough edhopper Apr 2019 #12
I wouldnt Clarity2 Apr 2019 #16
You are attached to the outmoded idea of a shooting war witha declaration. triron Apr 2019 #29
I'm confident that the courts will not consider Russia an enemy for purposes of the treason clause onenote Apr 2019 #35
Traitor isn't defined zipplewrath Apr 2019 #10
point taken edhopper Apr 2019 #13
Any of these okay? FiveGoodMen Apr 2019 #25
Two words - power and money Butterflylady Apr 2019 #8
He's always been this guy Bettie Apr 2019 #11
Simple: He's a dick! TheBlackAdder Apr 2019 #15
I'm going with that answer. smirkymonkey Apr 2019 #22
HOw Did He Get Sush A Sterling Reputation In The First Place? Me. Apr 2019 #18
Please stop calling it treason... Thomas Hurt Apr 2019 #19
Betrayal, then FiveGoodMen Apr 2019 #26
My understanding of the STRICT DEFINITION of "treason" is wrong 90-percent Apr 2019 #20
No. This is about protecting the Republican Party. What he is doing is not TREASON. It is highly OnDoutside Apr 2019 #21
It's at least Sedition, harming his country by covering up for a criminal donkeypoofed Apr 2019 #51
The report is clearly as bad for the GOP ScratchCat Apr 2019 #23
$ snort Apr 2019 #24
Because they always get away with every government scandal... PeeJ52 Apr 2019 #28
Because he got away with it for Iran Contra, so he figures he'll do it again. nt Baltimike Apr 2019 #30
from his POV qazplm135 Apr 2019 #32
And now we know he has Russian ties. Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #33
He expects to go down in history as Kablooie Apr 2019 #34
They are banking on getting away with it by remaining in power awesomerwb1 Apr 2019 #36
Because he's a Dominionist who denounces separation of church and state hatrack Apr 2019 #37
"People like you are still living in what we call the reality-based community... JHB Apr 2019 #38
Well, maybe many duforsure Apr 2019 #39
It's not treason....simple answer. AncientGeezer Apr 2019 #40
Because he owes his paycheck and career to treason... Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #46
Money? area51 Apr 2019 #49
Because he's a professional scumbag? Guy Whitey Corngood Apr 2019 #52

redstatebluegirl

(12,276 posts)
1. This isn't his first time serving as the GOP "fixer".
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:16 AM
Apr 2019

He did it first from GHW Bush, saving him from impeachment.

 

sarabelle

(453 posts)
48. There is something out in the media about Barr having worked for Russian interests
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:16 PM
Apr 2019

I will look for the link.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
3. What enemy?
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:19 AM
Apr 2019

To what enemy did he give aid and comfort?

He may be impeachable if he misleads congress. But I'm not sure the charge would be treason.

edhopper

(34,145 posts)
5. I think the idea is
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:21 AM
Apr 2019

he has chosen to protect a traitor (Trump working for Russia) rather than defend his country.

Abetting a man who continues to serve a foreign power.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
7. Mueller disagrees
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:24 AM
Apr 2019

The problem is, Mueller concluded (presumably) that Trump DIDN'T "serve a foreign power" (probably because he was too incompetent to do so). Treason is VERY narrowly defined in the constitution for a reason. Barr may be a traitor, but he didn't commit treason. (Nixon on the other hand...)

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
17. Sorta agree
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:36 AM
Apr 2019

Unless Barr literally said the opposite of what Mueller did, apparently Mueller didn't find anything that met his personal high standard for definition of what cooperation was. I am a bit suspicious that there is still plenty of "smoke" there that is going to be quite interesting to the democrats in the House.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
31. No
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:26 PM
Apr 2019

Mueller said there was no treason or coordination. Of course Mueller had a very high standard for such a charge. It will be interesting to see what level the evidence suggests.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
41. Barr said that Mueller said there was no conspiracy with Russian Government OFFICIALS.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:28 PM
Apr 2019

We have no idea what Mueller said. We only know what the cover-up guy claims about what Mueller said.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
42. Yup
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:54 PM
Apr 2019

Like I said, he had a very narrow criteria for some reason that wasn't met. One wonders what criteria could have been met.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
43. We have no idea what Mueller's criteria may or may not have been, nor his real conclusions.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:49 PM
Apr 2019

It's all the words of Cover-up Guy.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
44. Actually we do
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:02 PM
Apr 2019

Some time back he established the high degree for what constituted "cooperation" and evidence thereof. Basically if he couldn't establish that Trump, or someone on the immediate staff, actually made AND EXECUTED an agreement to interfere in the elections, he wouldn't bring charges. Trying and failing apparently wasn't going to be good enough for him. It might be for congress and the American people however.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
45. You seem stuck on the idea that Barr isn't lying.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:04 PM
Apr 2019

I can't quite figure out why.

As far as I'm concerned, we have no idea what Mueller actually says in the report.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
47. Not exactly
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:12 PM
Apr 2019

I'm fairly sure Mueller didn't recommend charging Trump with cooperation with Russia. Everything else is wide open.

former9thward

(32,641 posts)
50. You are stuck on the idea he is lying.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:53 PM
Apr 2019

Even though you admit "we have no idea what Mueller actually says in the report."

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
53. Barr is demonstrably evasive, at the very least.
Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:46 AM
Apr 2019

If you've watched his recent hearings on C-Span, or if you have followed his career of being the dishonest cleanup crew for dishonest Republicans, you will understand my skepticism.

Fiendish Thingy

(16,519 posts)
4. *sigh* this isn't treason as defined by the Constitution
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:20 AM
Apr 2019

Certainly obstruction and abuse of power, but treason is very narrowly defined, and this ain't it.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
9. We have diplomatic relations with Russia
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:24 AM
Apr 2019

We have billions of dollars in bilateral trade with Russia. American citizens can freely travel to Russia.

Does that sound like a country we're in a state of war with?

Russia is an adversary, but that doesn't make them an "enemy" for purposes of the very narrow treason clause of the Constitution.

Clarity2

(1,009 posts)
16. I wouldnt
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:32 AM
Apr 2019

not define russia as an enemy. They hacked our elections. They changed the course of our election. How is that not an enemy? Difference is, because of who we have in the WH, nobody can act on that or strongly voice that in a public way in this administration.

triron

(22,222 posts)
29. You are attached to the outmoded idea of a shooting war witha declaration.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:20 PM
Apr 2019

I think this mode (that you refer to) is essentially obsolete.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
35. I'm confident that the courts will not consider Russia an enemy for purposes of the treason clause
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:36 PM
Apr 2019

Treason was intended to be construed very narrowly. If what Russia did was an act of war, it would have all sorts of legal ramifications (such as requiring NATO members to take action). Since none of those things have happened, the courts will not find a state of war exists between Russia and the US. Hell, they didn't find such a thing during the Cold War either.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
10. Traitor isn't defined
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:26 AM
Apr 2019

So it can mean whatever you want. But treason is very narrowly defined.
Lying to congress is also defined.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
25. Any of these okay?
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:50 AM
Apr 2019
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/treason

Synonyms for treason
crime
mutiny
sedition
subversion
treachery
deceit
deceitfulness
deception
disaffection
dishonesty
duplicity
faithlessness
perfidy
revolt
revolutionary
traitorousness
breach of faith
lèse majesté
seditious act
seditiousness

Bettie

(16,482 posts)
11. He's always been this guy
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:26 AM
Apr 2019

and he's being well-paid to do it.

That phrase, "the rich are different"...they are, because their wealth generally (not always, but more often than not) insulates them from pesky consequences for their actions, so they believe that they don't have to adhere to societal and legal norms.

So, in his mind, he's doing "the right thing" because it benefits him and those who will give him more money/favors.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
22. I'm going with that answer.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:18 AM
Apr 2019


I will never understand why so many people willing destroy their lives, careers and reputations for this vile ignoramus.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
18. HOw Did He Get Sush A Sterling Reputation In The First Place?
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:42 AM
Apr 2019

This isn't the first time he has done this type of thing

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
19. Please stop calling it treason...
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:42 AM
Apr 2019

He is a traitor to the rule of law in this country, a traitor to principles of American democracy but he is not waging war against the US anymore than the toddlers and mothers at the border are invaders. He is a partisan hack and hypocrite, he may even be breaking the law, but he is not giving aid comfort to the enemies of the US.

90-percent

(6,850 posts)
20. My understanding of the STRICT DEFINITION of "treason" is wrong
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:07 AM
Apr 2019

So I looked up synonyms that I hope better match the meaning of my original intent. And picked out a few that could replace "treason" in my original post.


sedition
subversion
treachery
perfidy
traitorousness
seditiousness


Subsititute any of the above for "treason".


My point is: These guys take oaths. Destroying hundreds of years of American values so as to support a president hell bent on becoming a Dictator is a very despicable thing to do. Up there with helping terrorists nuke the US. And it's happening right in front of us in real time and our Institutions seem too hopeless and corrupt to turn this fascist police state tide!

-90% Jimmy

OnDoutside

(20,066 posts)
21. No. This is about protecting the Republican Party. What he is doing is not TREASON. It is highly
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:10 AM
Apr 2019

disreputable, but I'll bet it is not illegal, because that's how lowlife like him survive. To many Republicans, this is a game.

ScratchCat

(2,143 posts)
23. The report is clearly as bad for the GOP
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:27 AM
Apr 2019

As it is for Trump, as this cover-up was orchestrated probably a year ago and it clearly involves Lindsay Graham and other GOPers.

 

PeeJ52

(1,588 posts)
28. Because they always get away with every government scandal...
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:06 PM
Apr 2019

Haven't you noticed? Doesn't it seem like all the secret stuff is sealed and never to be released until 50 years later? We only learned about some of the deepest Watergate secrets lately, and most people didn't even care. The only ones that did were the true legal scholars. Who knows what all they really found out about Iran/Contra. People went to jail over that, or should have. All the hearings about 9-11 won't be published until most of us are dead and gone. All we have is conspiracy theories to go on. Why should this be any different?

Grasswire2

(13,612 posts)
33. And now we know he has Russian ties.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:32 PM
Apr 2019

I believe he's compromised. His tax returns should be requested when it's time to impeach HIM.

Kablooie

(18,693 posts)
34. He expects to go down in history as
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:35 PM
Apr 2019

The greatest defender of the greatest president in history, dictator for life , Donald trump.

Many Republicans are anticipating a successful coup and want to be on the right side of history.

awesomerwb1

(4,322 posts)
36. They are banking on getting away with it by remaining in power
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:39 PM
Apr 2019

and riding it out over time. If that's the case, Barr will only be a villain to Dems and those paying attention.

The trump base may be enough to keep them in power and that's why the trump demon kids may be future candidates.

hatrack

(59,857 posts)
37. Because he's a Dominionist who denounces separation of church and state
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:39 PM
Apr 2019


From Barr’s 1995 essay Legal Issues in a New Political Order:

We live in an increasingly militant, secular age. We see an emerging philosophy that government is expected to play an ever greater role in addressing social problems in our society. It is also expected to over-ride various private interests as it goes about this work. As part of this philosophy, we see a growing hostility toward religion, particularly Catholicism. This form of bigotry has always been fashionable in the United States. There are, today, even greater efforts to marginalize or"ghettoize" orthodox religion.

Okay, wow. And Barr gets even more extreme in his essay. A few of the highlights:

America should not be secular, but instead should enforce “a transcendent moral order with objective standards of right and wrong that flows from God’s eternal law.”

He blames crime, poverty, and even sexually transmitted diseases, on a nebulous Federal government attack on what he believes are American “traditional values.”

He outright calls for the Federal government to pay for religious education through subsidies

He calls for the creation of laws which “restrain sexual immorality” which will target homosexuals and transgenders

He complains about “laws which treat a cohabitating couple as a married couple,” and goes on to suggests housing discrimination against unmarried couples, gay or straight, should be perfectly legal

The essay goes on and on in this fashion, clearly demonstrating the depth and commitment Barr advocated to removing the wall between church and state.


EDIT

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/4/15/1850225/-Barr-Is-No-Mystery-He-Is-Simply-A-Zealot

JHB

(37,192 posts)
38. "People like you are still living in what we call the reality-based community...
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:53 PM
Apr 2019

"People like you are still living in what we call the reality-based community. You believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. That’s not the way the world really works anymore. We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors, and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." -- anonymous Bush adviser later identified to be Karl Rove


That's been the conservative standard operating procedure a few decades now: Push hard, grab with both hands, brazen it out, and you'll get what you want and leave everyone else stumbling to pick up the pieces. And what they want is to be the ones unequivocally on top, the people who call all the shots and can brush off or squash anyone who thinks different.

duforsure

(11,885 posts)
39. Well, maybe many
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:04 PM
Apr 2019

Like his son in law and daughter working in the House, and he was involved with Alfa Bank , which has ties to putin. So , he's very likely compromised , and putin and trump are using it against him.

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
40. It's not treason....simple answer.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:07 PM
Apr 2019

He's overseeing a U.S. issue...not 1 that has to do with a declared foreign enemy

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