The Political Discussion I Encountered Yesterday At A Family Party......

[global1]

Comments from the cousins that they liked neither Obama or Rmoney. That they might be forced to either not voting in Nov or voting for Obama only because he seems the lesser of two evils.

When I asked why they seemed down on Obama - it was because he didn't do anything in this last 3 1/2 years. I pointed out all he did and I also brought up the fact that this was incredible because the Repugs set out to stonewall everything he tried to do and that from the get-go they said that they were going to make Obama a one term President.

I said to them that they have to give Obama credit for all he did in spite of this and blame what didn't happen on the Repugs and not take it out on Obama.

I then pointed out that there is a lot at stake in this election. SCOTUS, Medicare, Social Security, Healthcare in General and then asked them if they are willing to take a chance on Rmoney and the Repugs that are out to change all that if given the opportunity. I also pointed out how important it was to gain back control of the House and re-take the Senate.

They are all up in the age where in the next 4 years that they will be reaching retirement.

I don't know if I changed any minds - but I sure made them think.

What struck me most is how uninformed they are and that the Dems and the Obama Campaign have not been able to get this message across. This seems to me the biggest obstacle that we have for an Obama victory in Nov.

[reformist2]

1. It's hard to prove a negative - that we averted a total collapse with that stimulus.

We could probably work harder at explaining why this recession was/is different, and why things really could have been a lot, lot worse now.

[hootinholler]

3. Is it also hard to prove that the stimulus wasn't large enough

Because of R obstructionism?

[patrice]

5. Agree strongly. My perception, from being out and about, is that people think this recession is like

any other, ergo "we should be back on track now".

It also seems to me that their understanding of getting back-on-track is based on a perception of the presidency that is false. It's as though they think presidents are kings and if you happen to run across someone who does understand the systemic issues associated with "checks and balances", you can get into difficulty with them over executive orders. It's scarey that this same cohort is either generating, or being used by those who are generating, vote suppression AND repealing the 17th amendment.

[snot]

27. Repubs have proved: proof is not the issue. Immersing the public in media you own is.

[snappyturtle]

2. I'm hoping the Dem convention will explain to the repukes (if they tune in)

all that the President has done and the Democrats' vision of our future as opposed to the repubs'.

[global1]

6. Maybe Some Independents Will Watch - But Otherwise I Think It Might Just Be Preaching To The.....

choir. I hope some of the undecided Dems or those that are thinking of sitting this one out - watch as well. With those undecided Dems and many Independents - I think the Convention should help.

[Thinkingabout]

4. I also share your pain of the negative Obama comments, mostly not based on fact but I will continue.

I see so many negatives on the repub platform, to further take the middle class down. The job creators are the 90% for without the ones in these brackets business would not be able to continue, we buy the gas, food and homes. The banks may try to live without us but we are a large part of their business. I encourage to vote, am not happy with the voter ID program the repubs are backing. I also think because the repubs has to continue to produce the false stories to discourage folks from voting for Obama.

[Blue Belle]

7. This is the problem with the HUGE negative ad buys coming from the Pro-Romney groups...

While I don't feel that people essentially like them or feel they are factually true, their isn't a clear reminder as to why they aren't true. This is what turns most people off about politics in the first place. The public memory of why things happened the way they did is weak, and the press rarely calls bullshit on these ads unless it is a flat-out blatant misrepresentation. The campaign won't slow down to address all these attack ads because if they did, that's all their campaign would be doing. They closest they get is mentioning something on the stump and then hoping to god those voters with questions look at the Obama.com fact check page.

The thing we have going for us is the Romney campaign's inability to do anything right. His avoidance of talking about his business experience, covering up his taxes and other aspects of the affluence he has used every loophole and hired every illegal worker to maintain, or walking back/ completely flipping on political policies and stances he had that would appeal to Massachusetts voters have caused his campaign to constantly step in it. I have never before seen a politician create such a whirling circular firing squad and I would really be interested to see how much his campaign has aged his campaign staff when this whole shit storm is over. You can just smell the stank of disingenuous from that guy and when his choice for VP can't even give him a poll bump, it's pretty clear that the only vote he has wrapped up is that of the angry white guy who aren't really voting Romney so much as they are voting against Obama because he is black.

If I were to suggest anything to the Obama campaign, it would be to run ads pointing out how many times the Romney campaign has lied in their political advertising up to this point. Explain to the public why the facts are wrong and insinuate that maybe this isn't the guy you should give your vote to (because if he is lying to you about the facts now... what will he do when he is in office).

What we can do as individuals is to keep having the conversations like you just did with your relatives and come off as a sane human being. What I mostly encounter when talking to firmly in the Romney camp friends and relatives is their anger and their need to scream the Rush Limbaugh talking points to me. They get all "Carrie at the Prom" and stop speaking in a discernible language. I know these guys are too far gone to reason with, but if I can respond to their ignorant remarks with sane, rational, explanation it a) makes them look like the crazed loon instead of the "Female Liberal" and b) might create doubt about Romney's ability to lead within the minds of those who overhear. Once doubt is created, there might be room for reason to get a toe-hold. I do the same thing on facebook and back up my arguments with articles/facts.

[elbloggoZY27]

8. Campaign 2012

I will vote Democratic. The GOP is running on all the wrong cylinders and their overall Agenda is extremely regressive. The biggest issue to me is creating JOBS and not ugly rhetoric that does not create anything.

One other thought: Small Business Does Not Create Jobs. We have infrastructure problems and no real manufacturing jobs since we sent those industries out of the United States.

"WE THE PEOPLE" need to take our Country Back and vote for those who really care about the real problems.

The fact is that every progressive idea proposed by the President has been blocked by the GOP whose only Agenda is to get him out of the White House.

[Booster]

9. Since they are reaching retirement soon, explain to them that R&R's voucher system will not

do them any good if the Repugs repeal Obamacare. Under Obamacare, insurance companies cannot deny anyone insurance based on preexisting conditions, so it won't make any difference how much that voucher will be, they will have to use any savings they have to pay for their own medical expenses. Tell them a simple gall bladder surgery I had cost $44,000 so if they have even 1 major operation there goes their kids inheritance and any money they had put away for a little traveling or whatnot. To me, this is the most important issue in this election. The Repugs wet dream is that people will have to use their retirement money for their health.

[Flatulo]

15. That's exactly correct, and I haven't heard it articulated that way.

Since most senior's money is in banks, it's difficult for corporate hands to get at. However, if everyone's life savings have to go for health care, either premiums or direct fees, everyone can be shaken down over time.

I still haven't heard anyone ask Ryan where in fucks name he thinks you can buy a decent insurance policy for $8k (which they will no doubt also want to count as income, so it's more like $6k).

[Booster]

16. Just before I was eligible for Medicare I looked into getting regular health care insurance on my

own and knew it would only be for about a year. Because of my preexisting heart problem the lowest premium I could find was a little over $3,000 a month. I ended up staying at my job a year longer so I could go right into Medicare when I did retire. People should do a little research and see what insurance costs for their entire family, or just themselves, before they vote for the stupid voucher system. That voucher just ain't gonna cut it for most.

[Flatulo]

17. Yup, and here in Mass, I was paying close to $2k per month when I was contracting.

The competition that Romneycare was supposed to create never materialized. In the first few years of the program, rates rose ove 15% annually. The State finally stepped in and regulated the rates, but the damage was done and unless you qualify for a subsidized plan, remain prohibitively expensive. It's common for people to be spending 1/3 to 1/2 of their net income on a plan.

[SheilaT]

28. We really, really need to be calling it

Coupon Care. You get a coupon for so much off the regular price.

Vouchers sort of sound like they'll cover everything (at least to me, even though I understand perfectly well that these vouchers won't) and everyone gets coupons. Plus, it's sufficiently demeaning while still being accurate to perhaps be a better way to characterize wht the Republicans want to do to us.

[eridani]

30. +1000

The term has a very appropriate penny-ante feel about it.

[sellitman]

10. Most people are not as politically charged as those here on DU

Many really are apathetic. Its sad but the truth. Our job is to do exactly what you did. Show them there is a HUGE difference.

Good job

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. they know as much about politics as I know about football

I know a few players names but I don't know how our local team is doing

[Honeycombe8]

12. Excellent. You did a great job. Better than I've ever done...

or else my relatives are more far right than yours. My Dad is scared of Obama 'cause Obamacare cut Medicare. As if THAT makes sense. The Democratic Party is the party responsible for creating Medicare. It's the party responsible for ensuring it still exists. It is the party that cares about senior health care to the point that it wants the govt to make sure elderly people get at least a minimum of health care, despite their lack of wealth. And yet he thinks the Democratic Party is more of a danger to Medicare than the Republican Party, which has NEVER shown any interest in protecting Medicare?

It's not possible for him to really think that. It's not. He's not stupid. He just hates the Dem Party so much that he just says things like that.

[Autumn]

13. My republican SIL and I were talking and that piece came on about people who voted for

Obama in the last election but aren't going to vote for him this time came on, my SIL said that he thinks it's true that Obama has been a mediocre President but only because he has compromised too much, but they would be idiots to vote for Romney and Ryan. I was very proud. He gets it.

[JNelson6563]

14. I think our convention will help with this.

Then it's full on campaign mode in every inch of this country. There are only so many Obama people to go around so each and every one of us needs to do what we can to help.

See you in the trenches!

Julie

[Kath1]

19. I hope the convention helps

I'll be right there in the trenches with ya, dear Julie. Peace.

[Kath1]

18. My daughter destroyed a Romney supporter at a family party

I absolutely hate political discussions at these events. Even if I'm offended by I comment, I'll usually consider the source, bite my tongue and grin and bear it. A Repug loudmouth (we don't know him) started going off to us about Obama yesterday and my 25 year-old daughter got totally pissed off and totally schooled him using the FACTS. She got into the total mess Obama inherited from the 8 years of Bush mismanagement and how GOP obstructionism is holding up any progress. I was impressed with her facts and figures. Her parting comment was along the lines of , "I know you probably hate having a black president, but I love having a black president. Soooo much better than the last white guy in there f***ing the country up!" He was speechless and got up and left us in a huff. Didn't care for the profanity, but this is a proud mom here!

[Booster]

20. I, too, am proud of your daughter. Tell her damn good job.

[Kath1]

23. Thanks!

I'll pass the compliment on. I told her she was great!

[JNelson6563]

22. Bravo to your daughter!

[Kath1]

24. I'll pass the "bravo" on to her!

Thanks, Julie!

[mojo2012]

26. Kudos!

Thank goodness for people like your daughter. She sounds like she has a great head on her shoulders! Good for her for standing up to folks who will vote against Obama regardless of any facts. So much so that these kind of folks are willing to give up their personal and family's wellbeing in the future.
But they will be the first to complain (if Romney, God forbid, should he become president) when things go further south for the average American and the rich people and companies get what their dirty money bought for Romney's election.

[Kath1]

29. Thanks!

Yes, she does a good head on her shoulders and is an Obama 2012 volunteer.

[B Calm]

21. It blows me away how many people

are political ignorant and haven't witnessed what the republicans have been doing over the past four years.

[Liberal In Texas]

25. One of the things I like to mention when talking to these folks is

to ask them if they knew that there was a bill introduced that gave tax breaks to companies creating jobs in the US and remove tax breaks for companies that move jobs overseas. They agree that this is a good idea and wonder why it didn't happen. When you tell them it was introduced by dems and it was killed by one of many filibusters by the repubs you get the blank stare that says they never heard about this.

Since they're not informed by the media they watch/listen to, one should try to be armed with a few of these examples of what the repubs have done to screw the country.