So of course the hacks are out with their miracle on the St John's river

[malaise]

after that aircraft skid off the runway in Florida and everyone is OK. One of them asked a a guy about the miracle.

His response was I don't take that view on these kinds of things - I'm a secular guy.
Wish I could hug him.

[PJMcK]

1. A curious dichotomy

When no one aboard this plane died in the accident, religious folks call it a miracle that had some god's hand involved.

But when a baby dies of cancer, a typhoon wipes out a village or people die in a terrorist attack, those same folks cannot explain how that god's hand was involved. Did the god ignore the baby or the other victims? Did the god cause their deaths?

Then those folks give the nonsensical reply that the god works in mysterious ways.

It's strange and very difficult for me to understand. But I'm a secular guy, too.

[Arkansas Granny]

2. A friend showed me a picture after the OKC bombing that supposedly showed

the image of an angel illuminated in a cloud over the city. The takeaway was that the angel had been sent by gawd to comfort the survivors. I remarked that it was too bad he hadn't sent the angel a few hours earlier to warn the victims.

[malaise]

4. Great remark

When a hurricane heading for Jamaica hits Haiti and misses Jamaica our morons always find a gawd reason and of course those wicked voodoo people

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

19. Someone must have sinned to invite Gilbert's wrath. Ganja, rum, ...

... and Blue Mountain Covfefe. That probably caused it.

[malaise]

20. Yes but it was a miracle it wasn't worse

[malaise]

3. So why did their gawd let the aircraft end up in the river

I will never understand human beings

[lindysalsagal]

16. ...or the earthquake, hurricane, mudslide, wildfire, tsunami, tornado, plague, cholera, flood,

crop failure, blizzard, locusts....none of it makes any sense, ever, and still, they don't figure it out.

[Ferrets are Cool]

11. They use one of two tired ole lines...

It was God's will OR
God works in mysterious ways.

It's curious how they twist things to fit each scenerio.

[Perseus]

14. And don't forget the very popular

god wanted to teach us a lesson....although they never know what the lesson is.

[VOX]

21. And the old chestnut: "God won't give you more than you can handle."

Bullshit. Try that line on parents who’ve lost their child to gun violence, or the kid who’s been bullied to the point of suicide, or the POC who’ve been killed by police for nothing more than existing, or on the clusters of homeless that we see everywhere in America.

[Merlot]

22. Loosing their child to gun violence was to much for one parent tp handle.

So tragic.

[VOX]

29. Precisely. The magnitude of tragic events often overwhelms many good people.

It’s incredibly tragic, and the fact that mass shootings occur so frequently now says many things about our culture, none of which are life-and-love affirming.

[3catwoman3]

28. That old chestnut is such a load of bushwa.

If there were even a morsel of truth to it, there would be no need for psychologists of psychiatrists.

[Ferrets are Cool]

54. Exactly!!

[Rambling Man]

15. The God of Jehovah sounds a lot like Donald Trump:

1. Expects people to worship and adore him
2. Gets all praise and no blame
3. Has a copout for everything ("Free Will"/"Mysterious Ways" default dodges)

[Ferrets are Cool]

55. I had to chuckle at the truth of that. nt

[malaise]

30. So true

[pintobean]

5. I don't know why

some people get so worked up over other people's beliefs.

[malaise]

6. Because human beings were responsible for the rescue

Give them their due

[uncle ray]

9. because those other people impose their beliefs on us.

[Ferrets are Cool]

12. This

[malaise]

18. Ditto

[Merlot]

23. Triple.

[Brawndo]

26. +1!

[pintobean]

42. No one imposes their beliefs on me.

It's rare that anyone even tries. Saying that something is a miracle is just an opinion, not an imposition.
We all know the old saying about opinions.

[GeorgeGist]

62. miracles are not opinions ...

they are myths.

[smirkymonkey]

46. +1000

Thread winner!

Also, because most of the people who espouse those beliefs are idiots who vote for republicans.

[VOX]

24. Spiritual one-upmanship and exclusivity-- "MY God is the ONE TRUE God."

“And if you don’t believe in MY god, you will roast in hellfire for eternity.”

Most religions feature some variant of this power-play, but fundamentalist Christianity is the only one where a “non-believer” is “gambling with their immortal soul,” and told they’ll be tormented forever, with no way of pleading their case or making amends when they die.

All of which casts god as petty and infantile: someone who demands to be worshipped and loved, or else.

[malaise]

27. Sounds like the vile MAGAcretin

Nicely put

[VOX]

33. Thanks, malaise.

The “vile MAGAcretin” indeed. I’m so sick of them spoiling our country with their backwards bullshit. Anti-education, anti-science, anti-diversity, and now, anti-fact and anti-lawfulness.

[happybird]

53. My sister and her family attend a mega church

Last edited Sat May 4, 2019, 03:10 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not full-on evangelical, more like evangelical lite. They appear to have a new way of viewing the fate of "sinners."

I was trying to be diplomatic when I told her I could not accept (or join. Ugh) a church that holds all people of other religions and LGBTQ people are doomed to hell for eternity. She said, "Oh no. They just go to a different heaven. And if you don't accept Jesus you won't get to be in our heaven with us."

WTF?

It's.. umm... interesting how organized religion gets to make up new rules to suit their purpose or the current political climate. How that is not seen by followers as giant, neon, flapping red flag simply amazes me. My sister and BiL are intelligent people; I don't get how they are unable to see through the bs.

I guess it's an improvement they aren't just sanctimoniously condemning "others" to hell now? I guess??

[malaise]

60. If they so want to be by themselves, why don't they just all head

for parts of red states and leave the rest of folks who enjoy diversity and a secular life in peace.

[happybird]

61. Seriously.

I worry sometimes about my nieces and nephew and what they are learning in this mega church. The girls are away at college now, so I hope their views are being expanded.

We've always had a firm 'no discussion of religion or politics' rule in my family (we run the gamut from far left to far right) but when Mom was in the hospital last year the topic came up. It was an interesting discussion between a humanist, a former Catholic turned atheist, and 2 semi-evangelicals.

[lunatica]

49. Because they stuff their beliefs down everyone's throats

and If you want to argue that there are good Christians well my answer is there are good Atheists. When was the last mass shooter or suicide bomber an avowed Atheist?

[pintobean]

50. Just checked my throat

no one's beliefs are there... never have been.

Good user name, btw.

[lunatica]

51. LOL!

Wow! What a rejoinder!

[Dennis Donovan]

7. The miracle belongs to Boeing...

Despite the recent software issues with the 737Max, the aircraft and airframe is tried and true as one of the safest designs ever. It held together as it rolled into the water due to ENGINEERS, not ANGELS.

[malaise]

8. Yep - the good old tried and true 737

[JHB]

10. Another one of these moments

[llmart]

13. Love it!

That would be me if he asked a leading/presumptuous question like that, but then he's a dickhead.

[malaise]

17. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Perfect

[3catwoman3]

34. BAM!!!

Good for her for speaking up.

Presumptuous jackass.

[Stuart G]

25. In another post, I called it a "miracle"...??

Definition from google: second definition, not the first definition given, the first is the one with the God reference:

____________________________________________________________________________________

"a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences".
"it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"

______________________________________________________________________________________

In reference to this story and my response, I want to say that I am not...repeat not a political hack. I am a true blue Democrat who supports Democrats at every level. My reference to a miracle is post 7, in Latest Breaking News on this crash....original post titled:

"A Boeing 737 coming from Guantanamo Bay slid off the runway and fell into St. Johns River in Florida"


: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142311690

[malaise]

31. I associate miracles with Christian beliefs

and nothing else - I don't believe in miracles.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. Even by that definition the incident wasn't a miracle.

The reason no one was injured or killed was physics. What happened was not highly improbable or extraordinary; it was exactly what would be expected when a sturdy airplane slides off the end of a runway into shallow water. It's true that airplanes normally don't go off the ends of runways because if they are landed correctly and/or there is no mechanical failure, they will stop before that happens. But when they do, what happens after that is entirely predictable based on ordinary Newtonian physics - velocity and mass and all that stuff.

[Stuart G]

39. I think that I called it a "miracle" because I recalled this crash in New York..

This is a NYTimes link to a crash in New York city, flight 843..a picture is at the link below. I think that I got a whole lot of stories about this one on video tape. Somewhere in a pile of videos down in the basement. When this was reported, (that is the one below, at the link)..That was called a "miracle".. because everyone escaped. This was 27 years ago...odd how the mind works...



https://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/31/nyregion/escape-from-flight-843-291-escape-burning-jetliner-at-kennedy-airport.html

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. That was physics, too. It's all physics, not miracles.

The NTSB attributed the crash to pilot error and TWA training and maintenance issues. According to the report, the take-off was improperly aborted by the captain shortly after liftoff, due to the erroneous activation of the stick-shaker stall warning device, when in fact the aircraft was performing normally and could have taken off safely. The extremely hard landing, after the plane gained only 16 feet in altitude, caused damage to the right wing, spilling fuel which was then ingested into the engines and started the fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_843

The reason everyone got out wasn't a miracle; it was because there were five deadheading flight attendants on board in addition to the regular nine.

[librechik]

45. that's pretty ironic and coincidental, if not miraculous. I get you, Stuart G

In a totally secular way.

[mn9driver]

35. Landing in a rain shower with a gusty tailwind on an ungrooved runway isn't a "miracle"..

It’s a bad call by the tower and by the pilots.

[malaise]

37. Nailed it

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. Newton always wins.

[3catwoman3]

36. God's will. Mysterious ways. Never give you...

...more than you can handle. Teaching us a lesson. Gd loves you so much he’s testing you.

This bullshit sets my teeth on edge.

For a being that is often presented by believers as a loving parent, Gawd sure is a son of a bitch. Any human parent who attempted to teach lessons the way Gawd does would be brought up on abuse charges.

[malaise]

38. It's a control mechanism

from snake oil salesmen and women - he gets all the praise and never blame.

[Stuart G]

63. I studied history. Thought about history a lot. Because of that, the kind of god that

sets good verses evil is long gone. The so called "good guys" often lose or survive at tremendous costs. When something happens where luck of survival is involved (in my opinion) I may call it luck, or miracle, or whatever. Sometimes there is no explanation due to physics. Survival sometimes is "luck."
..I do not believe that any God can determine outcomes. I have not been sold snake oil or the god who decides life. Sometimes, this causes friction with unbearable consequences.
..I have seen a whole lot, and want to live in peace. Especially here in DU. Each of us determines our own god in our own way I hope all is well with everyone on this thread.

[hunter]

44. If God is inviting everyone to live on his fabulous estate why should he care how they die here?

In fact a really spectacular or Darwin Award death might be a better story to tell when you get to the other side.

Yeah, I found an old bomb buried in my backyard and decided to break it up with a sledge hammer... Ha-ha-ha-ha. Next thing I know I'm here.

And then, Yeah, my neighbor found this bomb buried in his backyard...

I've actually met a few believers with that attitude, that we're all in good hands with God, and this makes the "It's a miracle, saved by God!" perspective seem quite blasphemous in comparison.

Of course the "It's a miracle!" people are frequently the same sorts who believe their god hates the same people they do.

[malaise]

47. ROFL

[librechik]

43. Oh, was AG Barr landing the plane?

what a fuckup! WORKS FOR HIM!!

[malaise]

48. I thought of that but this one

was way better than anything he has done to date

[akraven]

52. Helluva pilot - and am so glad all are okay.

The St. Johns ain't nothing to mess with!

[Blue Owl]

56. Apparently the all-knowing Lord really hates 737's though

n/t

[malaise]

57. I think he hates the Max

This one has been reliable for decades

[MineralMan]

58. They can all thank the shallowness of the river where the plane

slid off the runway for the "Miracle." That was why everyone survived with only minor injuries. No deity was involved.

[malaise]

59. Yah think?