General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama said, "I'm prepared to make a whole range of compromises"
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CVN_OBAMA_INTERVIEW?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-26-04-58-29
Compromising with lunatics. Marvelous.
Couldn't he just *pretend* for a few more months?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)scary!!!
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)nilram
(2,888 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Keep some of it in reserve.
Jakes Progress
(11,122 posts)Do you think that compromising with republicans on things that will anger liberal Democrats is a good thing? What compromises do you favor - cutting SS? limiting right to choose? warrantless wiretapping?
Just need to know what liberal causes you think are unimportant. Then we can discuss them. Other than that, you just agree with the OP by not addressing it.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)You do realize that almost every piece of legislation written in this country is a compromise of some sort, right?
Even in the Sixties, with a numerical majority in both legislative houses and a Democratic president, there were still compromises made within the factions of the party itself to pass legislation.
You knew that, right? It's part of the history of this nation.
Let me know which program you want to see fail first, because in a divided government, either you do nothing and watch it all fail (which is the Teabagger tactic, standing on their principals, but, by golly, they aren't compromising!) or you work towards a solution.
You take what you can get, or you do nothing.
Your choice to make, and you HAVE to make one.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)in return they (GOP) agree to ending tax breaks for corporations that outsource jobs. And if they DO choose to compromise, the President will promise to NOT go on TV and tell the entire Nation that the Republicans are supporting giving tax breaks to corporations that outsource jobs.
crickets.
-p
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)that BOTH sides have to sacrifice something. Tell me, in the last 30 years, what have the 1% sacrificed?
Jakes Progress
(11,122 posts)And I do think that DU needs to make a sticky with the definition of straw man. It would help if posters would check it first.
Now before started your pointless post, did you consider addressing my questions? You know, things that would address the OP contribute to a discussion.
I don't think SS should be cut back. I don't think we should compromise on a woman's right to choose. I don't think that we should have warrantless invasion of our privacy or detention without trial. I don't think gay couples should be kept from marrying. I don't agree that corporations have the same rights as people or that their interests should be put ahead of people. I don't think that the rich who have benefitted most from our country's bounty should pay less than those who create that bounty.
See? It's not hard. Just tell me which of these you don't think are important enough to safeguard. I told you what I think is important. Now you tell me what you think is not. (Or you could just apologize for jumping in without contributing.)
See. I made choices. You don't seem to be able to do so. You seem to be saying that because the tea baggers won't compromise, we have to drift over to their side. So by standing their ground, they get us to move more and more to the right. But you say if we stand out ground, we will lose everything - oh my. The sky is falling.
Well, I don't agree that we have to give up our rights and principles. You say we have no choice but to do so. So just tell us which rights and principles are less important for you.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)You run willy-nilly off a cliff at the drop a hat for no reason.
Then think for a change, first, before jerking that knee into your face.
Jakes Progress
(11,122 posts)reaction to the name of the OP.
Think for a change. Before genuflecting that knee into your face.
You still can't come up with the types of republican cooperation that you favor. I can list what I believe is important. Why can't you list what you believe isn't? Is it because you didn't really have anything to add to the OP other than a patented drive by at the name.
Now if you are a reagan Democrat who thinks the party was way too liberal and needs to be reined into a more conservative place, you ought to be willing to say so. I don't think the party should drift right. I don't think compromise is a good thing if the only way you know how to do it is to give away your principles to the other side. I think the other side is bad.
What ideas do they have that you think would be good for the Democrats to move towards?
Can you answer any questions about your position? Do you have one other than on your knees?
Phlem
(6,323 posts)crickets.
-p
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)So what's the point of trying to get Democrats to hate Obama then?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)for wanting Democrats to act like Democrats.
Great catch!
Do you think I'm a paid Republican shill, or a volunteer?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I think you're just another "progressive democrat" who's still got a sore ass over Obama getting the nomination four years ago.
A willingness to compromise does not necessarily translate into a need to do so. Nor does such a statement offer a scale. You simply assume the worst because, hey, fuck Obama, right?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Go ahead and search DU.
He just turned out to be a hell of a lot different than what he claimed. His coordinated efforts to cut Social Security benefits blew me away.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If Obama is shit, surely there's someone better! Dump him, nominate someone, anyone else, who will of course, be the picture-perfect candidate Manny on DU wants.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)is illegal. There are plenty of better things for the government to do than fight for the provision to indefinitely detain US citizens.
"Obama Defies Federal Court Ban On NDAA Indefinite Detention"
Obama is refusing to follow a federal court order that found the NDAA violates the Constitution and temporarily banned indefinite detention of U.S citizens.
The Obama administration is refusing to follow the order of a Federal District Court Judge Katherine Forrest who last month temporarily blocked the government from detaining U.S. citizens indefinitely without charge as authorized by section 1021 of the NDAA in a ruling that declared the NDAA unconstitutional.
The Obama administration first responded to the ban on indefinite detention by asking the courts to lift the injunction.
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/06/04/obama-defies-federal-court-ban-ndaa-indefinite-detention-140691/
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)solidifying the creation of the Unitary Executive.
Courts are for suckers and rubes.
Peregrine Took
(7,413 posts)I'll be glad after 2016 when he just fades away into the fog from whence he came.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)How long have you felt that way?
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)but seriously, what did he do that made you "not stand the guy"?
Under him, we've seen at least 25 straight months of private sector job growth, he ended the Iraq War and is drawing down our presence in Afghanistan, he repealed DADT, and he bailed out the auto industry. And there is a lot more on his official list of accomplishments:
http://obamaachievements.org/list
Despite constant G0P obstructionism, it looks like he accomplished quite a bit. Our employment rate would probably be even lower, too, if Congress had agreed to pass his Jobs Bill.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)You'd imagine, this being Mussolini's definition of Fascism, that our government itself would be screaming to end it, even if only by putting it into a national vote or electoral platform.
msongs
(67,405 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)pinto
(106,886 posts)He said he would be willing to make a range of compromises with Republicans, confident there are some who would rather make deals than remain part of "one of the least productive Congresses in American history."
Making "deals" is an integral part of effective governing. You have to deal with the other party in Congress to get anything done. Simplistic, mindless stonewalling, as the Republicans have resolutely practiced recently, is crippling. Compromise isn't always anathema to a liberal agenda. The devil of course is in the details, but compromise in and of itself isn't failure.
LBJ is probably the best example of a Democratic deal maker in recent times, particularly on social issues. A long term veteran of Congressional maneuvering, he was more adept at the game than Obama at this point in Presidential time. I'm more than willing to vote for another Obama term.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)This ain't LBJ's America.
Obama is infinitely preferable to Romney, but let's be realistic about what we're dealing with here.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)This ain't LBJ's America.
Obama is infinitely preferable to Romney, but let's be realistic about what we're dealing with here.
...the one that got health care reform passed and made the biggest expansion to Medicaid since it began.
Or the compromise that re-regulated the financial sector and expanded the powers of the FDIC and created the CFPB.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)The FDIC is now on the hook for trillions in derivative bets. It does virtually nothing.
Given that the CFPB and health insurance reform are compromises with Republicans... how many Republicans voted for these?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The FDIC is now on the hook for trillions in derivative bets. It does virtually nothing. "
...don't really know what's in the law do you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Bair#Criticism
http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/070110_Dodd_Frank_Wall_Street_Reform_comprehensive_summary_Final.pdf
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)The previous poster was referring to BofA shifting $75ish trillion of derivatives to its FDIC-insured subsidiary last fall. Bernanke backed BofA getting a $1 trillion blank check (the amount of insured deposits in the sub) and the FDIC lost that fight.
The fact that Citibank is still alive undercuts your argument on the expanded powers of the FDIC. It doesn't matter what it says on paper, it matters that the guy in charge makes use of the tools available. As Citibank's continued existence shows, somebody ain't interested in remedying bad banks.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)FDIC screamed bloody murder, but BoA got its way, and now taxpayers are on the hook for hundreds of billions of derivative bets.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Given that the CFPB and health insurance reform are compromises with Republicans... how many Republicans voted for these?"
Republicans, including Mitt, want to repeal all of it. In fact, they're trying to defund the CFPB.
by hungeski
Two well-known acts of the Democratic-majority Congress of 2009-2010 have begun to pay off literally for Americans. One is the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). The CFPB sets and enforces standards for bank dealings with customers. Last month, the CFPB issued its first enforcement order, following a probe of Capital One Financial Corporation. Capital One was misleading and pressuring customers to buy "payment protection" or "credit monitoring," when one would call in to activate one's credit card. Under the order, the bank will give each swindled customer a full refund, with interest, automatically no claim form needed. That adds up to about $140M for about 2 million customers. Also, Capital One will pay $25M in fines to the CFPB, and an additional $45M, including restitution for unfair billing practices, levied by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The other well-known act of Congress that is putting money back in Americans' wallets is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), also known as "Obamacare", which has set standards for medical insurance. One of those standards is that a medical insurance company pay out 80% (85% for large employer plans) of the premiums it gets for actual health care, not administrative costs and profits. Over the past month or two, about 12.8 million customers have been getting $1.1B in rebates, automatically, from insurance companies that had a shortfall in actual health care spending last year. Neither of these acts would have passed without push from President Obama, so these fair payments to Americans add two bullet points to the president's re-election resumé. By contrast, Mitt Romney, Obama's opponent in the presidential race, has said that he would repeal both the CFPB and the PPACA.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/26/1124565/-CFPB-PPACA-Pay-Off-for-Americans-Wallets-Obama-s-Resum
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)pinto
(106,886 posts)the stakes are high and the opportunities for real progress call for some deals to be made.
Health care - continue to expand access and protect the gains made to date.
Social equality - continue to expand legal equality for all and protect the gains made to date.
Taxation - continue to chip away at the inequities in our complex tax code and protect the gains made to date.
Federal government - continue to resist abdicating established federal oversight / guidelines / regulations.
All of these will require some compromises to be achieved, given the Congressional (i.e. House) membership for now. Gains have been made at some questionable costs and compromises. Yet they have been made. And Congress is the primary problem in the picture, not Obama.
Realistically, I get it that progress will likely be frustratingly incremental. And you have a good point, it's not LBJ's America in some ways. LBJ knew how to twist arms, make a hard deal. Was pretty blunt in the process. Obama is more a policy debater and tends to look for deals solely on the merits of the result. He himself has acknowledged that. I think the second term will be a different ball game.
Yet in some ways they both share the same approach - the long term gains to be made. I support that, as messy as the process may have to be.
"Making "deals" is an integral part of effective governing. You have to deal with the other party in Congress to get anything done. Simplistic, mindless stonewalling, as the Republicans have resolutely practiced recently, is crippling. Compromise isn't always anathema to a liberal agenda. The devil of course is in the details, but compromise in and of itself isn't failure."
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)Democrats compromise.
I get it.
RC
(25,592 posts)At least, now we know. Why would he rankle his own party compromising with the Republicans, when the Republicans are so bat shit crazy and our of touch with both the American people and with reality itself?
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)Republicans don't compromise. The Democrats capitulate.
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)getting the R's to lay their cards on the table, and/or proving they're obstructionists?
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)It doesn't fit the narrative:
That Democratic turnout isn't going to suppress itself, ya know.
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)I read the interview earlier and it was fine. Just clicked on this to see how much of the rest of it you clipped out to include - which would be nothing.
Predictable. So, right now, at this time, the most important thing is to attack the president with a sound-byte that sounds bad, but really isn't, unless you take it completely out of context. Why not link to the actual interview ( http://www.mercurynews.com/presidentelect/ci_21399827/ap-interview-transcript-president-obama ) instead of a crappy article about it?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)What different meaning is there if one reads the entire article?
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)"The problem we've got right now is we've got a Republican Congress that is closely aligned with Governor Romney's perspective that is blocking some of the progress that we could be making.
Q. Well, that's exactly what I want to ask you about next. Let's say you winokay, that's a hypothetical that you would probably buy into. But say you win, but the House Republicans win again also, a likely possibility. How is that any different from what we have now? Why wouldn't a voter look at that and say that's a recipe for stalemate. How would you do anything differently?
Obama: Well, there are a couple things that I think change. No. 1, the American people will have voted. They will have cast a decisive view on how we should move the country forward, and I would hope that the Republican Party, after a fulsome debate, would say to itself, we need to listen to the American people.
I think what is also true is that because of the mechanisms that have been set up, agreed to by Republicans, that have already cut a trillion dollars' worth of spending out of the federal deficit, but now we've got to find an additional trillion$1.2 trillion, I guessbefore the end of the year, means that the Republicans will have to make a very concrete decision about whether they're willing to cooperate on a balanced package.
If they don't, then I'm going to have to look at how we can work around Congress to make sure that middle-class families are protected, but that we're still doing ourmeeting our responsibilities when it comes to deficit reduction and investing in the future.
Q. But, I mean, I can certainly see Republicans, led by Speaker Boehner, saying the same thingthe American people voted, we're back in power, too. They're not going to change their position on taxes, on climate change, on immigration. So I mean, if you couldif I could just push a little further on that, how do you see that dynamic changing?
Obama: Well, look, there are some proposals that they put forward that we're not going to compromise on because I believe it would be bad for the country and bad for middle-class families.
I don't think it would be a good idea to pursue an approach that voucherizes Medicare and raises taxes on middle-class families to give wealthy individuals a tax break. So if that's the mandate that Republicans receive, then there's still going to be some serious arguments here in Washington.
But what I'm offering the American people is a balanced approach that the majority agrees with, including a lot of Republicans. And for me to be able to say to the Republicans, the election is over; you no longer need to be focused on trying to beat me; what you need to be focused on and what you should have been focused on from the start is how do we advance the American economyI'm prepared to make a whole range of compromises, some of which I get criticized from the Democratic Party on, in order to make progress. But we're going to need compromise on your side as well. And the days of viewing compromise as a dirty word need to be over because the American people are tired of it.
That's, I think, a message that will resonate not with every Republican, but I think with a lot of fair-minded Republican legislators who probably feel somewhat discouraged about having served in one of the least productive Congresses in American history.
And I hearnot in public, but in privatethat many of them would like to go ahead and get some stuff done because they recognize that our children and our grandchildren have a stake in us being able to get this work done."
on edit - when I read that, I see our president working for our best interests. Period. I don't think that he has some secret agenda or devious intent any tinfoil RW crap like that, which is what you would have to think to worry about the statement.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)pretend.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Give it up. There is some hate that facts can't overcome.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Nobody's trying to help Romney here.
Clearly, there's no good reason for Obama to be talking like this now. At this point, he should be all about firing up the base and bringing previous non-voters to the polls.
People who want Social Security compromised aren't going to agree with the Democratic message on anything else, for God's sake. And really, there isn't any such thing as a "center" anymore...the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" voter doesn't exist now.
Demit
(11,238 posts)He said he was prepared to make a whole range of compromises, including ones that he's been criticized for from the Democratic party.
He mentioned that he didn't think voucherizing Medicare was a good idea, nor raising taxes on the middle class. Good to know. He noticeably did not say anything about Social Security. That's what worries meand a whole lot of other Democrats. That the compromises he's prepared to make will involve changes (that Republicans want) to Social Security.
I don't think that the quote was taken out of context at all.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Republican Congress ever? Whether they win or lose, their ideas are BAD FOR AMERICA.
Does not agree with that?
That's, I think, a message that will resonate not with every Republican, but I think with a lot of fair-minded Republican legislators who probably feel somewhat discouraged about having served in one of the least productive Congresses in American history.
Notice he says it will resonate with Republicans, but he gets criticized by Democrats for. So whose opinion does he care more about? Does he think Republicans are going to vote for him?
Compromise IS a dirty word, it was dirty word for the Public Option.
Our only hope really is that he doesn't get a Republican Congress, which he seems to be expecting. This election is about Congress. A Democratic Congress means no compromise with Republicans.
I wish the interviewer would have asked him 'but what if you get a Democratic Congress'?
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)He plainly says he is ready to make compromises that democrats aren't going to like. Considering the ones he's made in the past, I'm pretty sure that this means he's going to make ones in the future that I'm not going to like. What part of that did I take out of context?
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)woolldog
(8,791 posts)What an idiotic thing to say.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"It's like he's trying to depress turnout of his base in November."
...worrying about strange polls. That would excite the base, huh?
woolldog
(8,791 posts)polls are inside baseball. only poll junkies like you and me care about them
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)woolldog
(8,791 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The kind of win that doesn't mean anything.
The rank-and-file will have to FORCE our party's leaders to actually try for a big win.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Witness the way his "supporters" devote most of their energy toward bashing progressives and liberals while practically ignoring the many serious problems our country is facing.
Good governance and problem solving are not their thing. Making excuses, engaging in the shallow personality politics and attacking the only people with good ideas seems to be the agenda.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Whew! So glad he's compromising and not selling out 'cause that would be bad.
And we know the first two areas that will be "compromised," too. Funny how the sacrifices are always made by the 99% but none from the 1%. I'm sure it's just coincidence.
BlueCollar
(3,859 posts)There's a difference Mr. President.
And I do understand why you are saying what you are saying....
Once bitten....twice shy
but at the Dem convention this should be repeated ad nauseum
"But what I'm offering the American people is a balanced approach that the majority agrees with, including a lot of Republicans. And for me to be able to say to the Republicans, the election is over; you no longer need to be focused on trying to beat me; what you need to be focused on and what you should have been focused on from the start is how do we advance the American economyI'm prepared to make a whole range of compromises, some of which I get criticized from the Democratic Party on, in order to make progress. But we're going to need compromise on your side as well. And the days of viewing compromise as a dirty word need to be over because the American people are tired of it."
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If they can't do it at the polls, they'll try...other means. And we know what those means will be.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That there won't BE any more moderate 'Pugs in Congress after the election. Even now, there's too few of them to matter. And the only "compromise" the others will accept is total surrender(like Clinton always surrendered to them on everything that mattered after 1994).
He really shouldn't be saying these things now, though. You can't talk that way and still expect enthusiasm from the base.
Raine
(30,540 posts)as usual for the next term.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)He's made of compromise. That's a neat tidbit about our President that a lot of people didn't know.
MFM008
(19,808 posts)Well, nothing could be worse than R/R.
piratefish08
(3,133 posts)Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Post removed
spanone
(135,831 posts)gkhouston
(21,642 posts)mac56
(17,566 posts)Can you at least PRETEND to set aside the Obama hate, just for a moment, and post his comment in the PROPER context?!
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)But be warned: it's a real downer.
FDR he is not.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)that the republicans idea of compromise is getting 90% of their wants and desires and giving 10% of what the Democrats want. That isn't any kind of compromise I want to be a part of. This lesson should have been learned by now. This isn't a good sign.
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)comments regarding compromise. DUers have provided you with ample data to that effect. It's still a worthy post, but your comments are misleading.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)So Manny was right to post this and it's exactly what it says on the tin.
If you'd like to disagree in a constructive fashion, please tell us how this is not a re-run of the President desperately putting SSI on the chopping block, and the Repubs refusing?
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)not because I thought Manny's statements were accurate, but because this discussion is how a discussion should develop. I followed every thread that was posted at the time the jury was pulled and reached the conclusion that he had misrepresented what Obama had said. The video tape of the conversation made it clear that there were some things that were off the table. Manny never reflected that.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I'm not following how that isn't accurate- are you suggesting that by posting only that quote, he was cherry picking for the purposes of a slanted OP?
The fact that the President says certain things are not on the table does not negate(or even mitigate) the fact he is signaling that he is willing to put SSI and other issues on the block (again) in a way that will "rankle" Democrats and that "Republicans support."
I'm not sure where the potential misrepresenting is going on.
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)Both Akin and Romney's faux pas fit in one line too, but they perfectly summed up what was going on.
You feel that compromise we wouldn't agree with won't be on the table?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 27, 2012, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Don't we all know this song by now?
And the word people are looking for is not compromise, capitulation, or conceding.
It's collusion.
The Third Way WANTS these cuts. Go to their website and see the DEMOCRATIC defense of cutting safety nets. Look at Obama's history with Hamiltonian Democratic ideas: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315
It's time to end the denial. On economics, wars, and the police state, the corporate Third Way agenda direction is exactly the same as the Republicans' direction....rightward. The difference is a matter of the speed with which the changes will be implemented.
Here comes the new "Grand Bargain."
dflprincess
(28,075 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)What was the deadline we set?
Autumn
(45,079 posts)because he has compromised with the republicans too often.( that came out when we saw the ad on TV) A republican gets it but Obama doesn't? He doesn't need to pretend, there is no one else to vote for. I expect a lot of republican wishes to be granted in Obamas second term.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)you know he just has to pretend to be a moderate until after the election when he can take that hard left turn and continue turning America into the socialist wasteland shown in that hit movie Obamaland 2016.
You know it is coming, all you gotta do is clap for Tink, and make another donation to Obama. I mean what is more important, paying for rent, or defeating Romney?
Then after the re-election. I mean, after ACORN steals the election again, Obama will nationalize the banks, nationalize healthcare, even nationalize puppies - Petsmart is on the list, and take all the guns, and put a planned parenthood clinic in every city with over 10,000 people in it, and force all the churches to perform gay marriages, and get rid of welfare reform, and tax incomes over $150,000 at 110%, and so on.
Just like Clinton did after he was re-elected in 1996 and walked right over that Republican House that was elected with him (and is predicted to be elected with Obama).
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts).
on point
(2,506 posts)Get some backbone and start moving the country away from the right wing loonies and back toward the center at least, or even better back to a progressive agenda
Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)I know it's cool to blame Obama for everything in Manny's threads, but the level of disconnect from the real world amongst some of the president's critics is just breathtaking. There are two other branches of government, save some of your contempt for them.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Which is partly why independents broke for Republicans.
Progressives didn't "sit on their asses", btw. That's a complete revision of reality. Turnout was decent among liberals. Unfortunately, Obama fired up the other side and lost independents.
on point
(2,506 posts)The Dem leadership just doesn't get it. The country wants a vast and massive swing away from these foolish policies and back towards something that makes sense. This is not the 'fault' of the republicans, this is the fault of the policies that DEMS THEMSELVES have selected and pushed.
Stop trying to turn everything into an excuse for the dems. They are headed in the wrong direction and the country knows it. If you want enthusiasm, then earn it by LEADING in the right direction and not selling out every chance they get.
GET SOME BACKBONE AND LEAD!!!
Massive military cuts
Higher taxes for the wealthy
Eliminate capital gains, and dividend differential and tax all income the same regardless of source
Raise the social security ceiling
and stop trying to blame teachers and other workers for incompetence and greed of the leadership
Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)president. None of the shit you listed is going to happen with a divided government, no matter how much you wish for it, and no matter how much Democratic leaders issue spittle laced diatribes on the campaign trail.
As for "backbone", I think this president has shown plenty of it. He's the first sitting president to come out in favor of marriage equality; the first one to actually get HCR done in 70 years; etc.
Didn't Robert Gates already propose military cuts? Hasn't the president proposed higher taxes for the wealthy? You seem to think we elected a king. Pres. Obama can't just wave some magic scepter, and make all your liberal fantasies come true. And as for what the country wants, get back with me in a couple of months, and it'll be a totally different vision.
on point
(2,506 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Blaming teachers and America's workers now seems to be the policy of both parties.So who is fighting for the American people?
You compromise AFTER you fight. You don't start with compromise.
jillan
(39,451 posts)you are going to vote for in November or are you just going to stay home?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)As will anyone who's well informed and uses their head.
We have to choose one.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)He probably doesn't appreciate SSI being a bargaining chip to the person that is supposed to be representing us.
Of course the President feels confident in ignoring us appealing to his better angels. After all, who else can we vote for?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)that everyone here has the best interests at heart for our Democratic President.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)which quotes his aides as saying he will no longer be attempting to compromise.
Let me go look
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/opinion/gergen-zuckerman-gop-convention/index.html?hpt=po_r1
"On the Democratic side, aides to President Obama are spreading the word that, if he wins, he has had enough of trying to accommodate the Republicans and will also be more confrontational."
Skraxx
(2,972 posts)I've yet to see anything from you that's not a slam on Obama. Seems like you've got an agenda to post shit out of context to make Obama look bad.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)issues that are important to the American people. What better time is there to let a candidtate know what the people want than when they are running for office?
Why, eg, is the president once again signaling to the Republicans that he is ready to compromise, BEFORE even putting up a fight? Why is he saying Republicans will like what he is saying, who gives a shit about Republicans, aren't they ones we are supposed to trying to defeat? They have NO GOOD IDEAS.
And why does he say Democrats will criticize him for whatever it is he is willing to compromise on? Do YOU know? Why isn't he more worried about what Democrats think that what Republicans think?
First you fight for what you want, THEN you give up something after YOU set the terms. You do not start out with compromise, that is for after you lay your cards on the table.
Skraxx
(2,972 posts)on Obama. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining. I've seen this guys posts over and over doing the same dishonest bullshit. You want to defend it, fine, but don't pretend it ain't what it obviously IS.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Show me one good idea Republicans have had that should lead anyone to believe there is any benefit in 'compromising' with them??? I despise, and so does the OP which you would know if you had been here for any length of time, the Republican Party and all their anti-people, pro-Corporate policies.
But here we have a Democratic President saying he thinks they will like the fact that he is willing to start out by compromising with them, and he knows that Democrats won't be happy with him??? What?
I am a Democrat, I don't know you I do know the OP who is also a Democrat. We can start compromising with Republicans AFTER we let them know that their rotten, destructive far right wing policies are unacceptable, damaging, destructive to all living things, and they need to come up with something we CAN consider compromising over before it is even a consideration.
Please explain to me what policies the president is willing to compromise with Republicans over. He doesn't say. Maybe you know???
Skraxx
(2,972 posts)And you sure are good at attempting to change the subject from the OP's deliberate out of context bullshit. Yours too for that matter. I know the game your playing and it won't fly, but keep trying, maybe you will convince yourself eventually, but you sure as shit ain't fooling anyone else.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 29, 2012, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)
that affect millions of Americans. I agree with the OP, and I thought I was clear about that, that no Democrat should start out any bargaining process with the worst Republican Congress ever, by offering compromises.
This is my opinion, it is a bad tactic to give anything to people who are not, have not and will not be bargaining in good faith.
I notice, since you brought it up, that you have not addressed the actual issue but have resorted to attacking the OP, and now me, personally. So I have no idea of what your opinion of the actual issue is.
Your opinion of me and/or the OP is entirely irrelevant.
Skraxx
(2,972 posts)And sow doubt and division. You guys are pretty obvious about it since that's all you ever do is slam Obama.
But go ahead, keep pretending its not really that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)attacks does so because they know they are unable to address the actual issue. So I will repeat it.
Republicans have no good ideas with which to bargain. Starting out compromising with one of the worst ever Republican Congresses is not only bad strategy, it is guaranteed to lose on issues that are important to the American people. It is not necessary since a vast majority of the American people do NOT want the privatization of Medicaire, SS or Medicaid.
Republicans need to be attacked for their policies NOT compromised with. There is no logical reason to even think of compromising with anyone whose only goals are to protect the rich at the expense of the working class, the poor, the elderly.
I asked you what Republican ideas might even be considered when making these promised compromises. I cannot think of one and apparently neither can you.
I haven't alerted on your posts as I think they are instructive and people need to see what passes for discussion of important issues among a few on the left.
I no longer expect anything but vitriol and personal attacks, which btw, mean nothing to me so feel free to launch yet another personal attack rather than defend your position, whatever it is.
Skraxx
(2,972 posts)And I will keep calling you on the bullshit.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)All I've seen from you is an avoidance of the issue and multiple comments attacking other DUers.
But no Bullshit identified.
Flailing around, yelling and screaming about something or other, still not identified, just looks a little weird.
I sincerely hope you are not campaigning for this president. Hurling insults and without even explaining why, doesn't do anything but harm for a candidate.
Having worked closely with top Dems on political campaigns, I can assure you that comments like yours make them cringe.
Skraxx
(2,972 posts)Uh huh. I'll just take your word on that. And I'm a ninja. So there.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)K&R
Response #20 contains the video for anyone who has the stomach to watch it. Much more explicit than even the quote posted by Manny.
PB
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)D23MIURG23
(2,850 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)That's how it works.
Slow road to hell or fast one?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I'm actually pretty happy with Obama.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)BlueinOhio
(238 posts)He did not learn the first time. Hard to defend him when it seems like he hops in the GOP bed every time he turns around.
renie408
(9,854 posts)There will be no compromise. And no healthcare reform of any kind and no Medicare and no Social Security and the middle class will truly be fucked.
But I guess we will have our principles to keep us warm at night.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Some people might think President Obama is too eager to compromise on certain issues.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Do you hear any Republicans talking about compromise?
First you fight, and yes, I know this is a terrible thing, but you fight for your principles, knowing in the END you might have to compromise, but you do not start out compromising. That is the worst kind of losing strategy in any business.
renie408
(9,854 posts)So, it stands to reason that BEING like them isn't something I aspire to.
'Compromise' really ISN'T a dirty word. It can mean working cooperatively toward a mutual goal. For awhile now Republicans and Democrats have been sold that we want opposite things. That isn't true. We all want the same things. We all want security, opportunity, health care, food on the table and a roof over our heads. We have different ideas on how to go about getting those things. Republican leaders, in an effort to scare their voters into never EVER considering voting for a Democrat, have spent a lot of time and money screaming that Dems want something entirely different...to tear down America, to install a socialist government, blah blah blah. But no, we just want those same things everybody wants.
If everybody wants basically the same thing and have two different ideas about how to get to those things AND getting ANYWHERE depends on some level of cooperation...there is going to be some compromise somewhere. Realistically we aren't getting the House, the Senate AND the White House. Without compromise, exactly what the reporter was saying will happen: We will be stuck with another four years of nothing getting done.
Plus, it may have slipped past some people here...BUT THE MAN IS TRYING TO GET RE-ELECTED. "I refuse to budge one inch to work with the other side." would probably not be a smart thing to say. Right now one of the biggest arguments against the GOP is that they do not cooperate.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)fuck this game.... it's all bullshit!
Mark this thread for later on folks!
B Calm
(28,762 posts)in his second term is squashed. Come on Obama, you trying to lose this election to the outsource CEO?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Or whatever.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)and have proven wholly toxic and as such compromise with them is foolhardy on the best of days and the President should be pounding just such a sentiment over the insanity of opening with more "compromise".
Fighting the fuckers tooth and nail is what the country needs.