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Why did they let him be installed? (Original Post) SHRED May 2019 OP
Who do you mean by "they"? MousePlayingDaffodil May 2019 #1
He would have never qualified for candidacy SHRED May 2019 #3
I'm not sure I know what you mean about the IRS doing its job . . . MousePlayingDaffodil May 2019 #6
Trump has been corrupt and criminal for decades SHRED May 2019 #7
Exactly. How has he gotten away with all that tax fraud for decades? nt SunSeeker May 2019 #12
Just speculatin' here, but I think US Atty Rudy Giuliani was paid to look the other way... NewDayOranges May 2019 #58
What's hard to grasp... TwilightZone May 2019 #13
Tax fraud and money laundering SHRED May 2019 #14
Why not? TwilightZone May 2019 #29
For what it's worth, I believe whathehell May 2019 #62
Father and son were found to have engaged in intentional racial discrimination StarfishSaver May 2019 #64
You are correct. whathehell May 2019 #93
Out of sight out of mind. thewhollytoast May 2019 #53
Well the Russians managed to do something pangaia May 2019 #52
It's obvious as hell... you'd think that corrupt POS would have been ALREADY impeached by now!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #67
Yeah, it was all about FaceBook ads. NanceGreggs May 2019 #18
Russia's influence was far more pervasive than "Facebook ads" Turin_C3PO May 2019 #19
Republicans JHB May 2019 #44
The tentacles of corruption Kitchari May 2019 #2
+1 sandensea May 2019 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author GemDigger May 2019 #4
Exactly! Why then? Why not after he met with Russia Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #5
Folks are claiming 2020 will solve this SHRED May 2019 #8
Do we actually have the underlying evidence to Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #15
I agree watoos May 2019 #26
Yes, you've mentioned this before..that the true Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #34
Part I deist99 May 2019 #78
Politically there are true arguments that a drawn out impeachment process will hurt Red Don though uponit7771 May 2019 #87
Should just remove all doubt and impeach the Liar-in-Chief now!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #70
THIS !!!! uponit7771 May 2019 #86
Pelosi Billy Ray Joe Bob. May 2019 #20
I hear you SHRED May 2019 #25
And accountable for starting a fake war where Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #27
Yes indeed Billy Ray Joe Bob. May 2019 #30
Most voters don't get that treestar May 2019 #68
President Obama didn't want to hold watoos May 2019 #28
Yes Billy Ray Joe Bob. May 2019 #32
There were good Dems who weren't voting to go to Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #39
Specifically for the purpose of improving Bush's lot at the bargaining table mr_lebowski May 2019 #79
Yes. I heard Hillary explain that one time. But not Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #83
Let's not forget Max Baucus. These supposed "leaders" love 2nd place! eom thewhollytoast May 2019 #49
Interesting to see a specific name mentioned. Hortensis May 2019 #69
IKR EffieBlack May 2019 #75
And sometimes just opportunity grabbed for gratuitous insults. Hortensis May 2019 #80
People who swarm in with their blind faith to disparage Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #88
Yup, just what I mean, those awful "theys" and "thems" who Hortensis May 2019 #98
10+ MILLION people signed the moveon petition to impeach!!! Nt Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #99
I actually retract. Minority/majority are better terms Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #102
If you knew Max Baucus's family history in Montana you wouldn't talk shit. thewhollytoast May 2019 #97
They're dead or obscure, he's retired, and you're resurrecting Hortensis May 2019 #100
Dead and buried....huh? thewhollytoast May 2019 #103
I wish I knew. Turin_C3PO May 2019 #9
That he took the oath of office lapfog_1 May 2019 #10
This whole damn planet is turning into a colossal right wing category 5 shit storm. Initech May 2019 #11
+1000 smirkymonkey May 2019 #55
perfect storm Locrian May 2019 #77
I have felt the same since that first gawd awful night. Control-Z May 2019 #16
Deep corruption SHRED May 2019 #21
Just a sickening gut wrenching feeling? What I felt. triron May 2019 #37
But like you said...all those people should be Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #40
Obama went to McConnell in 2016 to get support to go public about Russian influence/hacking. Pobeka May 2019 #17
I don't let Obama off the hook SHRED May 2019 #23
Some questionable actons were taken by the Obama administration. triron May 2019 #36
Yes. His sense of fairness and not trying to overtly Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #41
I agree with that too. Pobeka May 2019 #71
Agree 100% nt RandiFan1290 May 2019 #84
And this nonsensical 'insurance plan' to keep rump from winning. IF ONLY. nt UniteFightBack May 2019 #22
Never heard of this SHRED May 2019 #24
Strock and Page chit chat watoos May 2019 #31
I blame the IC mostly and the Russians of course; also there was treason, the kind of which no one triron May 2019 #33
The USA has a very f'ked up system of government with huge flaws. democratisphere May 2019 #35
Why did WE let Bush be installed twice and then MF45? ananda May 2019 #38
Yup. Need a truly bold leader who understands Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #42
The actual article in Newsweek referenced was 5/23/2018 n/t Stonepounder May 2019 #43
And nothing has changed SHRED May 2019 #51
That is the million dollar question. onecaliberal May 2019 #45
Good question Meowmee May 2019 #46
Trump is a product of corrupted systems Yavin4 May 2019 #47
Dump is a symptom of a greater problem. roamer65 May 2019 #50
Glad to be 46th recommender to want to be rid of Dolt 45. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #54
Legally, what steps should they have taken? I guess this is the occasion where the Electoral College pnwmom May 2019 #56
It is my understanding SHRED May 2019 #57
Because they're asshole traitor repubs. Cha May 2019 #59
The Will of the People Aussie105 May 2019 #60
This part was interesting. Not to mention doubt-provoking. calimary May 2019 #61
the people who voted for him don't care. they are happy russia helped him get elected JI7 May 2019 #63
Trump's ignorant yahoos love Russia now, in their minds it's the ideal country sop May 2019 #76
He*s illegitimate. #BastardRepublianMisleader Achilleaze May 2019 #65
Because he won the EC thanks partl to the kinds of anti-Dem smears crawling all over this thread EffieBlack May 2019 #66
Clearly, there's no deep state. ecstatic May 2019 #72
The corporate deep state gave us Trump sop May 2019 #82
I think NY is partially responsible. It was their job to rein ecstatic May 2019 #73
I think, given what a complicated mess his businesses were, the state didn't have EffieBlack May 2019 #74
I Think The Question Is Me. May 2019 #81
K&R, We need people to speak up !!! uponit7771 May 2019 #85
Are you saying the DOJ, IRS and entire IC didn't go far enough in preventing Trump from taking hughee99 May 2019 #89
I am not saying that SHRED May 2019 #90
Eligibility to become president is based on his citizenship at birth, his age, and residency. hughee99 May 2019 #91
Sh&t-stirring EffieBlack May 2019 #92
When someone suggests the IC "let him be installed" hughee99 May 2019 #94
I'm sorry - I wasn't referring to you EffieBlack May 2019 #95
I apologize. I'll be honest, I don't recognize the shit stirrers hughee99 May 2019 #96
Reagan and Bush Jr set the bar very low. guillaumeb May 2019 #101
1. Who do you mean by "they"?
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:03 PM
May 2019

The Constitution specifies how someone is elected President. What would you have had your "they" do, exactly?

6. I'm not sure I know what you mean about the IRS doing its job . . .
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:18 PM
May 2019

. . . but as Trump was 35+ years old, a natural born citizen, and a resident of the U.S. for at least 14 years, that would have qualified him for the office per Article II.

If you mean that Trump's rise to claim the GOP nomination could have been derailed somewhere along the way, I suppose so. But, again, I'm not sure under what authority the IRS would have acted nor, for that matter, the "what" they were supposed to have acted upon.

Trump is President because he received 270+ electoral votes. Constitutionally, that makes him "legitimate" no matter how much we may dislike it.

Meanwhile, back in those swing states, if people cast a ballot based on their having been persuaded by some bogus Facebook ad generated by the Russians, who's ultimately responsible for that particular failure?

NewDayOranges

(692 posts)
58. Just speculatin' here, but I think US Atty Rudy Giuliani was paid to look the other way...
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:55 AM
May 2019

As well as several other US Attys and FBI Agents in NY City. Surely some of the people scammed by Trump complained to the BBB, FBI or US Atty's office and apparently nothing was done... For forty years...

TwilightZone

(25,471 posts)
13. What's hard to grasp...
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:31 PM
May 2019

is what authority you think the IRS has to stop someone from being inaugurated.

TwilightZone

(25,471 posts)
29. Why not?
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:07 AM
May 2019

He was busted for racist housing practices decades ago. Not only did that not hurt him, it probably helped him with some of his target audience. They insist he's not a racist in light of incontrovertible proof to the contrary.

He's failed at multiple businesses, yet his base thinks he's the most successful businessman ever. Much of what we're seeing was in plain sight. They didn't care.

His base would look at tax fraud as "sticking it to the man" and it would just play into his government-is-bad, victimhood rhetoric. They already buy that, as evidenced by the reaction when his massive losses were exposed.

Besides, it's incredibly difficult to prosecute white-collar crime in this country thanks to Reagan, et al. The IRS might have very well "done their jobs" but didn't conclude there was enough to prosecute. As we've seen throughout the Mueller investigation, he surrounds himself with lackeys to isolate himself and ensure others take the fall. There's little reason to believe he didn't do the same there.

whathehell

(29,067 posts)
62. For what it's worth, I believe
Mon May 27, 2019, 02:34 AM
May 2019

may be confusing Donald Trump for his father, Fred, in terms of being "busted for racist housing practices". It occured in the early 70's, when Fred was still in charge.

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
53. Out of sight out of mind.
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:36 AM
May 2019

It's not a cover-up. It's merely a comb-over.



My "Trumpling" family here in Ohio still think he's some kind of Robin Hood. This summer is going to be telling. If the Soy bean market does not change for the better they are both finished.

I kept my hands in my pockets, and my mouth shut,

Toast

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
67. It's obvious as hell... you'd think that corrupt POS would have been ALREADY impeached by now!!
Mon May 27, 2019, 07:31 AM
May 2019

BUT no, we're still waiting... for what, I don't know.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

NanceGreggs

(27,814 posts)
18. Yeah, it was all about FaceBook ads.
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:47 PM
May 2019

Where have I heard that before? Oh, right - from that towering intellect, world diplomacy expert, and all-around useless idiot Jared Fuckin' Kushner.

Turin_C3PO

(13,991 posts)
19. Russia's influence was far more pervasive than "Facebook ads"
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:54 PM
May 2019

It’s a right wing talking point that it was just dumb people fooled by “ads“.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
44. Republicans
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:38 AM
May 2019

All of them. The ones who voted for him, and the ones who didn't vote for him but spent their careers fostering the ones who did.

Kitchari

(2,166 posts)
2. The tentacles of corruption
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:05 PM
May 2019

no doubt run very wide and deep, even to those agencies you have named, perhaps

sandensea

(21,635 posts)
48. +1
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:05 AM
May 2019

Cheeto is what Wall Street wanted, and they usually get what they want (even if they sometimes later regret it).

Response to SHRED (Original post)

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
5. Exactly! Why then? Why not after he met with Russia
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:17 PM
May 2019

and trashed OUR intelligence and there were no "notes"? Why not when he broke the law doing the same thing Cohen is in jail for? Why not when it was obvious he was milking his presidency for $$? Why not when he tried to talk his aides/appointees into breaking the law like, what, 11 times?

Why in heaven's name are we giving him space and benefit of the doubt??

I am SO unbelievably disappointed in our lack of immediate fervor. If ANYONE deserves impeachment it is him. If we continue to delay and more time passes between the act and action...we are equally complicit.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
8. Folks are claiming 2020 will solve this
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:23 PM
May 2019

I'm am not sure at all.
In fact I think that's foolishly dangerous.

They vote in Russia also.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
15. Do we actually have the underlying evidence to
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:38 PM
May 2019

Mueller's report yet.? There is zero true argument that impeachment would hurt us. Yet that belief (not sure if is it TRussia/GOP inspired) is pervasive.

I like what Slate wrote about taking Mueller's section on obstruction and submit with evidence as articles of impeachment. don't drag it out. just do it.

Waiting for justice at next election is extremely dangerous. No voting safety has been implemented and Russia still free to influence. And trump can continue to claim that there was nothing there...if there was the Dems would have impeached.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
26. I agree
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:03 AM
May 2019

Impeaching Trump will devastate him according to his biographer. The longer we wait the worse it will be.

If we impeach we should get the grand jury information which will have a lot of dirt on the Trump crime family.

We only have been given what Barr released. We don't have the entire Mueller report. Congress doesn't even have the results of the FBI counterintelligence investigation and Barr is about to do his own investigation and tell a great big fucking lie. Barr needs to be held in contempt of Congress at a minimum.

I hate to say this but Speaker Pelosi has in the back of her mind that she was Speaker in 2010 when Democrats lost a net 64 seats, she is trying desperately to not have a repeat. I'm not blaming her one bit for 2010 but I'm just saying it has to have an effect on her.

Impeaching Trump will rile up Democrats, the Senate failing to convict will rile up Democrats, let's do it.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
34. Yes, you've mentioned this before..that the true
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:11 AM
May 2019

motivation for not impeaching is an increased potential for losing the House. Yet don't see the evidence that impeaching could affect that this time and be a cause. Just don't see that many people (the voters we need) rushing to the polls because we impeached. So reckon it must be something else? Yet nothing harmless comes to mind.

deist99

(122 posts)
78. Part I
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:49 AM
May 2019

I’ve read all of part I and half-way through part II. I don’t think there is anything in the unredacted parts in part I that is going to change the summary of part I which stated “this investigation could not establish that person from the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians in their election interference activities.”

What we needed is for Mueller to establish that they did. Now it is true that you don’t need a crime to be guilty of obstruction of justice, but from what I’ve read it’s hard to prove obstruction without a crime. And that’s what the republicans senators will hide behind if we impeach.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
70. Should just remove all doubt and impeach the Liar-in-Chief now!!
Mon May 27, 2019, 07:36 AM
May 2019

It's a travesty that this sick, deranged lunatic has been allowed to remain in office. I hardly watch TV anymore to avoid even hearing the mere mention of his cursed name.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

 
20. Pelosi
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:54 PM
May 2019

Pelosi failed to hold Bush and Cheney accountable
For torture. She said 'impeachment is off the table '. I hold very little hope that Trump will be held accountable by Pelosi. I hope to be proven wrong.

 
30. Yes indeed
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:08 AM
May 2019

War criminals going unpunished is the sign of a nation headed down . But Regan and Bush senior also sold weapons to our enemy's and funded an illegal war in ELSALVADOR. Also never held to account. I'm sad for America and now Trump the ultimate evil.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
68. Most voters don't get that
Mon May 27, 2019, 07:32 AM
May 2019

They still go on about “protecting our freedoms”. They are poorly informed, probably by choice.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
39. There were good Dems who weren't voting to go to
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:16 AM
May 2019

war. They were voting to give Bush the authority IF all else failed. IOW, they voted to trust Bush. More a matter of naivety vs. war mongering.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
79. Specifically for the purpose of improving Bush's lot at the bargaining table
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:58 AM
May 2019

To get Saddam to truly FEAR war (due to appearance of a united Front in the USA), so he'd let the inspectors in. Which worked, and we DID get inspectors in. Then Bush f***ed the Dem's that had given him their vote for a whole other purpose ... avoiding war.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
83. Yes. I heard Hillary explain that one time. But not
Mon May 27, 2019, 10:39 AM
May 2019

as well as you did! I think it's a bit of a syndrome I hope we lose one day. Never admit you are liberal. Always apologize. Never stand up with extreme certainty. Always parse and be overly cautious with the words you speak.

It reminds me of the way Hillary handled the whole email thing. She had a perfect defense...the system was the same as what was good enough for a former US president who lived in a home protected by Secret Service. And I heard a career IT manager say that it is very wrong to look at the past through the lens of today. Back then, people 100% relied on IT experts to worry about systems and security. Yet instead of explaining this with defiance, she thought apologizing would make it all go away.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
69. Interesting to see a specific name mentioned.
Mon May 27, 2019, 07:35 AM
May 2019

When I hear plaintive complaints about all the "theys" and "thems" who are always at fault for everything, I always suspect nonvoters or people who make really ignorant, horrible voting mistakes but never clue in that they are the "they." I mean, people who can't or, worse, won't differentiate between Democrats and Republicans just don't strike me as among our brighter bulbs.

But here we have a name, Democrat "Max Baucus!" Don't know why you're bashing him specifically, don't need to know, I'm just impressed to see a name. (Except Pelosi's, of course. Even the dumbest trumpster can name our designated Democratic witches.) Anyway, congrats on coming up with a refreshingly specified target.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
75. IKR
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:04 AM
May 2019

Notice it’s the same folks who always swarm in to point fingers and name names. And their targets are always prominent Democrats. They use Trump as the initial justification for raising the topic, but their point always is to talk about how reprehensible certain Democrats are. Without fail.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
80. And sometimes just opportunity grabbed for gratuitous insults.
Mon May 27, 2019, 10:03 AM
May 2019

Senator Baucus left in 2014 and became Obama's ambassador to China. BUT, he's still a Democrat.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
88. People who swarm in with their blind faith to disparage
Mon May 27, 2019, 11:05 AM
May 2019

the free thinkers are equally annoying. Doubt anyone's sole purpose is to target Dem leaders just because, like you imply.

Free thinkers who don't follow in lock step are constantly criticized when party actions are called out for anything legitimate. It is only natural to direct that to people who are calling shots. My party always right is such a dangerous path to take IMHO.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
98. Yup, just what I mean, those awful "theys" and "thems" who
Wed May 29, 2019, 02:44 PM
May 2019

can never be free thinkers because they are competent and decent enough to work with others to do what needs to be done.

Never to be mistaken with dysfunctional outliers, aka "free thinkers," who pride themselves that their inability to respect or work with others to achieve is proof of their righteous superiority.

See, we can agree. It's just a matter of interpreting differing terminology.

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
97. If you knew Max Baucus's family history in Montana you wouldn't talk shit.
Wed May 29, 2019, 02:12 PM
May 2019

Do your homework. This guy killed killed heathcare. The Baucus klan switches sides whenever it pleases them.

Montana, like all mountain states, is a fiefdom. He fucked us. He's really a nice guy, once you learn to hate him. Just ask his x-wife.

100 senators for 300+ million people. What could go wrong?

Toast

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
100. They're dead or obscure, he's retired, and you're resurrecting
Wed May 29, 2019, 02:47 PM
May 2019

them smear shit as you so Trumpishly put it on today's Democratic candidates. Apparently finding a current name is a dry hole? Only a bunch of "theys" and "thems"?

These smears are only for Democrats, right? Not for MT’s proud conservative majorities who have the nerve to expect their representatives to represent Montana’s majorities in a democracy?

Btw, if you know any who’ve been finding it impossible to vote for stinking Democrats, don’t let them dare complain about Trump. Because they own him as much as anyone.

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
103. Dead and buried....huh?
Wed May 29, 2019, 05:17 PM
May 2019

I lost my familie's home to colon cancer two years ago, after 30 plus years in the workforce. Insinuating that I'm a Trumpling is rich. Where is your next meal coming from? Don't bother telling me. I have an 11 year old still to raise. I just love how so many, so called, Democrats have barely less than idea of who Frank Little or Jeannette Rankin were.

It's time to pull up our pants and do what needs to be done. Will you meet me at the barricade? I'd be proud to stand with you if you show up.

Toast

Turin_C3PO

(13,991 posts)
9. I wish I knew.
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:24 PM
May 2019

I kept hoping that the “deep state” actually existed and would work to keep him off the ballot.

lapfog_1

(29,204 posts)
10. That he took the oath of office
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:25 PM
May 2019

is definitive proof that there is no "Deep State". And certainly no Deep State conspiracy against Orange Anus

Initech

(100,075 posts)
11. This whole damn planet is turning into a colossal right wing category 5 shit storm.
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:27 PM
May 2019

Go to France. Go to India. Go to Eastern Europe. Go to England and Australia. Go to Brazil, Hungary, Poland. Everywhere you look, countries, cities and counties are flipping toward the ultra far right fascism and dictatorship mantra. It's getting scary. Trump is just part of the equation. It's Hitler's master plan on a global scale. What's their end game?

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
77. perfect storm
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:42 AM
May 2019

The end result of capitalism is when it hits the boundary of finite resources. At that point - it goes into turbo mode as things become scarce - and the already wealthy compete even more to suck up what remains.

All at the same time climate change hits.

So now you have a grab for the last $$ (illusion) wealth hoarding when actual *people* need to cooperate more. Instead you get nationalism, right wing dictators, war, etc.

I have very little hope that as a species we get our collective shit together to the point where we can actually WORK TOGETHER to address the issue of our survival. Instead of this zero sum game of I win you lose.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
16. I have felt the same since that first gawd awful night.
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:41 PM
May 2019

I guess I just hoped leaders, people in high office, constitutional lawyers, judges, and men and women of great and honorable character would step up, meet together, dig deep and find a way to stop the inauguration of this criminal. The math was impossible. The polls were off. Any layman could see there was something horribly wrong.

I've been waiting and waiting. There is more to know. There are people who know more. I believe there are people who could tell us what happened and how it happened - down to the very details. But we've all been sold a bill of goods. Mueller won't testify in public! That's a huge deal. Think about it. It's huge.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
40. But like you said...all those people should be
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:18 AM
May 2019

Getting together NOW too, to come up with a plan to get rid of MF45.

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
17. Obama went to McConnell in 2016 to get support to go public about Russian influence/hacking.
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:42 PM
May 2019

McConnell said "F*ck you", I'll fight you in the public arena (paraphrasing).

It's all about McConnell. He's the one who not only let this happen, he *wanted* it to happen. If HRC had been elected, the FBI and CIA would've uncovered McConnell's connections to Russia. McConnell desparately needed it to be Trump so McConnell himself could avoid investigations.

It's the only thing that makes any sense at this point to me.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
23. I don't let Obama off the hook
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:56 PM
May 2019

He should have called a press conference despite the repercussions.
He had a duty to the oath of office.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
41. Yes. His sense of fairness and not trying to overtly
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:22 AM
May 2019

tip the scales in favor of Dems won out. It's like he was almost too fair. He also was too modest. Never bragged one iota about turning the economy around, implementing ACA, or killing bin laden. This helped millions in NYC metro area sleep better at night!

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
71. I agree with that too.
Mon May 27, 2019, 08:34 AM
May 2019

and perhaps D's would've shown out in the numbers like we had in 2018 if they knew what was on the line, instead of complacently thinking we had the whitehouse, like the polls and pundits were saying...

But I definitely think McConnell owns 90% of the blame here, IMHO.

triron

(22,003 posts)
33. I blame the IC mostly and the Russians of course; also there was treason, the kind of which no one
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:10 AM
May 2019

imagined.

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
35. The USA has a very f'ked up system of government with huge flaws.
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:11 AM
May 2019

Just imagine if our entire government was 100% rethuglicons. We are currently the United States of Supporting Corruption.

ananda

(28,860 posts)
38. Why did WE let Bush be installed twice and then MF45?
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:15 AM
May 2019

I keep thinking that on a subconscious level we are
all complicit in a fascist worldview that is ultimately
going to destroy the planet’s ability to support large
life forms. Thus, human energy will have had it’s day...

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
42. Yup. Need a truly bold leader who understands
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:25 AM
May 2019

and believes what you said. Someone that unabashedly follows what is true and just.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
51. And nothing has changed
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:21 AM
May 2019

We have a weak justice system.

Almost non existent for the well connected corrupt world leaders.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
46. Good question
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:45 AM
May 2019

For so many reasons. He has been a major criminal for many years since Russia / putin started paying for his life and using him to launder money. He was inciting violence on his campaign which is illegal and he was not legitimately elected to name 3.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
47. Trump is a product of corrupted systems
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:59 AM
May 2019

These corrupted systems are protected, both wittingly and unwittingly, by people who believe that they're doing the right thing. For example, Obama protected the system by going to congressional leadership for their approval about going public with the Russian tampering. Instead, he could have gone public without it.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
50. Dump is a symptom of a greater problem.
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:14 AM
May 2019

The United States is in the terminal stage of empire.

We may save some of it by breaking it up, like the Roman Empire split into east and west.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
56. Legally, what steps should they have taken? I guess this is the occasion where the Electoral College
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:46 AM
May 2019

could have proven it's worth -- and it failed, utterly.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
57. It is my understanding
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:51 AM
May 2019

That Donald J. Trump has flagrantly violated tax and banking law for decades. High financial crimes including, but not limited to, money laundering.

If we had a Justice System worth two fucking shits he'd be in prison by now much less pResident.

But I could be wrong.

Aussie105

(5,395 posts)
60. The Will of the People
Mon May 27, 2019, 02:18 AM
May 2019

is enshrined in the methodology of holding Democratic elections.

Unfortunately, it turns out some people are easily swayed by malicious rumours, make decisions on shallow logic, or out of spite, or pure hate and a need for revenge.

The Democratic Process of Elections is like a steam train. Destination unknown when it starts out. Hard to stop once it gets moving up to speed.

Unfortunately, this particular train went straight to the Gates of Hell.

The Founding Fathers never installed a reset button, or a 'pause' function in the whole process. The possibility that there could be a Creeping Evil and Insanity in the whole process never occurred to them.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
61. This part was interesting. Not to mention doubt-provoking.
Mon May 27, 2019, 02:20 AM
May 2019

Last edited Mon May 27, 2019, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Toward the end.

Clapper is also critical of Republican congressional leaders for refusing to sign a bipartisan statement condemning Russian meddling in 2016.

"House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said they would not support a bipartisan statement that might hurt their nominee for president," Clapper writes in an excerpt of the book published by NPR. "I was disappointed but not surprised. It seemed they had decided by then that they didn't care who their nominee was, how he got elected or what effects having a foreign power influence our election would have on the nation, as long as they won."

A spokeswoman for Ryan and McConnell denied Clapper's claims, and in a stament to Newsweek said “Mr. Clapper has his facts wrong. What was discussed with the White House staff in September was a letter to the states warning against attacks during the election, which was quickly drafted and sent on September 28th."

https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-russia-tipped-election-trump-staggering-says-former-us-intel-chief-940086

WHEN did they send such a letter? And to WHOM? Who received it? Any reaction? Did they say something - ANYTHING? Was there ANY coverage? ANYTHING in the news? I don't remember hearing a single thing about this back then. Is anybody in a position to receive such a letter back then still in that position? Could they confirm this? Produce the letter? If not, what happened to such a letter? Who has it now? And why hasn't this leaked? I'll quote one of Mike Pence's favorite responses: "This is the first I've heard of it." But in my case, it's the truth.

And other questions come up, now, about this purported letter sent to the states about the fucking Russians messing with our election: This letter - who wrote it? Who distributed it? How was it "sent" to the states? Assuming there was such a letter sent to the states, were the recipients told to keep it quiet? Told by whom? And why were they told to keep it quiet - if indeed there was such a letter distributed to the states? Any reasons given for not making this public? What were those reasons? Who gave the order to tell the states to keep this quiet? And why?

sop

(10,177 posts)
76. Trump's ignorant yahoos love Russia now, in their minds it's the ideal country
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:37 AM
May 2019

It's a brutally authoritarian oligarchy, run by white nationalists, racists and christian fundamentalists, with laws that discriminate against immigrants, minorities, gays and women.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
66. Because he won the EC thanks partl to the kinds of anti-Dem smears crawling all over this thread
Mon May 27, 2019, 07:08 AM
May 2019

But it’s so much easier and more effective to blame Nancy Pelosi (here we go again - it’s HER fault that Trump won the Electoral College in 2016 because she didn’t push to impeach George Bush in 2007?) and President Obama and other Dems than to admit that too many Democrats fell for and then eagerly, although sometimes (and only sometimes) unwittingly promulgated Russian and right wing propaganda about Hillary Clinton, Obama, etc. to help get Trump elected, and now continue smearing them and using them as excuses and smokescreens to hide their own culpability and, in many instances, advance ongoing agendas.

But they’re not going to get away with it this time because they’re not as clever as they think and many of us can see right through the smoke.

ecstatic

(32,704 posts)
72. Clearly, there's no deep state.
Mon May 27, 2019, 08:37 AM
May 2019

If there were, this nightmare of a presidency would have NEVER happened.

sop

(10,177 posts)
82. The corporate deep state gave us Trump
Mon May 27, 2019, 10:29 AM
May 2019

They need Trump to entertain his racist rabble, tweet lies and absurdities, and create distractions and divisions, while they pass tax cuts for themselves, confirm corporate-friendly judges, appoint agency heads to de-regulate and privatize the commons, and generally give themselves free rein to rape, pillage and plunder.

They don't care if Trump is a crazy, neofascist authoritarian. What they fear most is a genuine populist uprising and losing power. And if that requires alliances with repugnant demagogues to retain control, the corporate deep state will gladly make them.

ecstatic

(32,704 posts)
73. I think NY is partially responsible. It was their job to rein
Mon May 27, 2019, 08:44 AM
May 2019

his criminal enterprise in. I really hate to beat up on my hometown, but this motherfcker was running an unregistered charity/foundation in plain sight, ffs. I'm glad they're going after him now, but it's too fcking late! The damage is done!

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
74. I think, given what a complicated mess his businesses were, the state didn't have
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:00 AM
May 2019

the time or resources to untangle them in order to make a case. And, on top of that, I suspect they just thought of him as a petty criminal who wasn’t worth the effort.

Even now, with all of the time, resources and expertise being devoted to digging into his financial affairs, professionals are still struggling to sort them all out.

But they will ... and he will eventually realize that running for President was the biggest mistake he made in his life as it will be the down fall of him and his whole family.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
89. Are you saying the DOJ, IRS and entire IC didn't go far enough in preventing Trump from taking
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:10 PM
May 2019

office? That sounds a lot like what republicans have been saying, except they call it an "attempted coup".

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
90. I am not saying that
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:14 PM
May 2019

I am saying he should have been busted years ago and he'd never be eligible.
At the very least we should have been warned about Russia and his campaign pre-election.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
91. Eligibility to become president is based on his citizenship at birth, his age, and residency.
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:22 PM
May 2019

I'm not sure the FBI, DOJ or IC would have been able to change any of those things. If you're upset with the fact that he wasn't busted years ago, I think your issue would be with the previous administrations.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
94. When someone suggests the IC "let him be installed"
Mon May 27, 2019, 09:51 PM
May 2019

And they should have done something about it, yeah, I’m going to stir a little shit. It’s the kind of comment that plays into republican hands by suggesting that their job is to make sure cartain people can’t become president.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
96. I apologize. I'll be honest, I don't recognize the shit stirrers
Mon May 27, 2019, 10:10 PM
May 2019

As well as I used to, but should have been suspect of anyone who appears to be posting their own tweet.

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