General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI used to be a social worker, working with people with drug/alcohol issues...
I would lay the tools of recovery at their feet. Most would not pick them up.
It was always stunning... Why? Why would you not want to change your thinking/behavior and combat the inevitable downfall that was surely coming?
It became obvious as time went by. They in fact did not, would not, could not see the absurdity of their condition. Years of delusion, denial and complete lack of self awareness rendered them incapable of insight into themselves.
I used to think this mindset was was applicable only to those with substance abuse/dependence issues. It is not. "Normies," as we used to call them, (everyday people without substance abuse/dependence issues) are often not normal at all. Many suffer from delusion, denial and complete lack of self awareness too, but are not substance dependent.
Often the only time my clients would consider changing their behavior is when things got so bad, and they were so personally at risk of catastrophe, that they HAD to do something or perish. It is a strange and sad part of the human psyche - that often we only consider saving ourselves when our our own survival is at risk - and often selfishly oblivious to the effects of our behavior on others.
I see this same phenomena in trump supporters; authoritarian personality types who are fear-driven, delusional, in denial, exhibiting a complete lack of self awareness and critical thinking skills. They cannot and will not see the absurdity of their mindset. They are right, and will not consider another point of view (similar to several of my clients, who refused attempts at recovery to the point of their own demise.)
For many of these folks we can talk all we want. We can strive to be beacons of sanity and rationalization. It will make no difference.
The only thing that will bring about change to these folks is personal catastrophe. And some, just as several of my clients, will keep their mindset regardless of personal consequences.
NOTE: I am not trying to bash trump supporters; remember, they CANNOT see their behavior. It is a psychological/pathological/clinical issue requiring professional intervention to correct.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)your explanation is good... I have been alerted on here for saying that all lawmakers should lose a child to gun violence... (I really don't want anyone to lose a child, but) that would make it more likely that we could have common sense gun laws...
most of us have blinders on... I even recognize it in myself sometimes...
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)Yep. Me too. All of us.
Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)
Iggo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)A middle school-aged boy (maybe 14, at most) accidentally shot and killed himself. The father never made any comments about introducing guns to kids too soon or without enough supervision.
Sure, he was still in shock.
But I don't think lawmakers behave any differently, not after Steve Scalise and Gabby Giffords were nearly killed and other around Giffords were shot dead.
spike jones
(1,678 posts)a child shot and killed their self or another child with an unsecured gun.
The parents said it was Gods will.
Kaleva
(36,297 posts)They did not change their views on guns.
Kaleva
(36,297 posts)We tend to believe that which supports our world view.
Your comment:
"We can strive to be beacons of sanity and rationalization."
We don't have a monopoly on sanity and rationalization. We like to think that because it reinforces our world view. I do agree with you that we strive for it but with the understanding that we'll never achieve it because we are human.
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)We don't have a monopoly. For me, humility and a daily attempt to "strive for it" is crucial.
Thunderbeast
(3,406 posts)They only change when "they feel the heat".
Kaleva
(36,297 posts)One person may swear off drinking after just one bad hangover while the next person may have to kill someone while driving drunk before they quit.
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)All "bottoms" are not created equal.
in2herbs
(2,945 posts)mopinko
(70,090 posts)i mean, put up the venn diagram of the opioid epidemic and the red counties.
hard to say which comes first, but the one trumper i personally know likes his cocaine.
LiberalLoner
(9,761 posts)orangecrush
(19,546 posts)and you have certainly hit the nail on the head.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)having direct experience myself almost 30 years ago. Some call it a complete collapse of the ego. Unfortunately, some are born with personality characteristics such as psychopathy that simply will not let it happen. I watched a few die due to that malady.
However, when we attempt to relate this to political belief structures, I fear that these people live within a protective supportive bubble that shields them from the need to surrender. That's because total surrender usually also requires a feeling of being alone along with some extreme pain (social, psychological, economic or physical).
The right-wing bubble the GOP and their plutocrats have build over the last 40 or so years needs to experience a major collapse before their minions can see the light.
Thanks for the good OP......
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)within a protective supportive bubble that shields them from the need to surrender."
Brilliant insight.
CaptainTruth
(6,589 posts)... & even create its own "reality."
That's dangerous & may bring about the end of our species.
LiberalLoner
(9,761 posts)I grew up in an alcoholic family. I was the only one in the family who kept wanting to see and tell the truth, and I ended up feeling like I was the crazy one because I was the only one not in denial.
It affected me very deeply. I dont have many friends, and I dont trust people. I really am a loner.
And I am so triggered by Trump supporters and what I see around me, I can barely function. It reminds me of the family I grew up in. Everything horribly dangerous and terrifying and yet everyone but me pretending everything is perfect. Am I the crazy one or are they?
So...your explanation seems very accurate to me.
I have struggled all my life to understand how the people you describe think. In part because I thought if only I could think like them, I would fit in.