With His Job Gone, an Autoworker Wonders, 'What Am I as a Man?'

[yortsed snacilbuper]

Mr. Marsh voted for trump, as did a majority of voters in Trumbull County, a small square on the map of northeast Ohio.

Mr. Marsh had never had a definitive moment with politics, a sudden clarity in which he clicked with a candidate. That changed in 2016. He remembers sitting at home watching a debate between Mr. Trump and Hillary Clinton. He was expecting suit-and-tie civility. Instead, he got a circus. Mr. Trump was like a boxer who kept landing punches. It was electrifying.

“I said, ‘Wow, I’ve never seen anything like this,’” he said.

He knew what it looked like. Mr. Trump was kind of crazy. But he liked the fact that he didn’t back down. Then Mr. Trump brought up Nafta, and it was like he was speaking directly to Mr. Marsh. Nothing else mattered — not Russia, not porn stars, not divorces.

He voted for Mr. Trump, and so did his father, along with just under half the workers represented by the union.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/with-his-job-gone-an-autoworker-wonders-what-am-i-as-a-man/ar-AABYVDz?ocid=spartanntp#image=AABYVDz_1|3

[Downtown Hound]

1. Why do so many men think they're whole identity is wrapped up in their job?

There is more to life and you.

[Ohiogal]

3. In all honesty

If I were a single mom, I’d feel the same way.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. I'm a woman. Every time I've lost a job, there's been a month of being disoriented.

I tie myself up in what I can do when I'm working.

[MyOwnPeace]

12. That may be easy to say........

unless you've been in that situation.

If you have not, good for you.

To those that have - and are:

[lunatica]

13. It's not hard to figure out

It isn’t the job that defines you if you’re a middle class worker. It’s your ability to be a good provider which in turn gives you the ability to be a father and husband.

If he loses his job then he can’t do the important things for his family that define him.

[dem4decades]

28. Well said.

[NickB79]

37. This. It's all part of our culture of toxic masculinity

Men are defined by their ability to support their families. If they lose that ability, they're emasculated.

It's the same reason so many men can't handle their wives earning more money than them. They lose that "breadwinner" status and they're directionless.

[meadowlander]

17. Most people spend most of their adult waking hours at their job.

They see their coworkers more than their kids in a lot of cases.

It's usually one of the first questions you ask when you meet a new person - "So what do you do?" And it's one of the first and most important grown up life decisions that people make.

It is an important part of your identity.

Not to say that it's the end of the world if you lose your job or have to reskill and do something else but I don't think the significance of work to peoples' identities should be downplayed either.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

18. Many people, maybe most of them,

define themselves by their job. For decades now I've marveled at that and when I try to suggest that defining oneself by the job is not a good thing, people think I'm, I dunno, unAmerican or belittling what they do or some such.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. Capitalism demands it.

[fescuerescue]

30. That's not limited to capitalism

over my life, I have known several people who lived under other systems (including the former soviet union), who have gone through similar life trama.

Unfortunately, for most of us, our survival revolves around work or service of some sort. It's true in every time and place and unless we have the fortune of coming from a wealthy or politically connected family.

I suppose there are a few "outs". Such as living unconnected in the wilderness ala ted kaczynski, but those require a different type of work.

[Hekate]

29. Back when I was a single mom with no child support it was vastly important...

My children depended on me, and I was proud (identity) that I could provide for them.

For all of us, our work is a big part of our identity.

[wcmagumba]

2. To Drumph and the thuglicans...

you are only a pawn, to be discarded after use...

[Thomas Hurt]

4. They vote GOP and they know Republicans revile unions (smh).

[sheshe2]

5. Whoa.

yortsed snacilbuper

0. With His Job Gone, an Autoworker Wonders, 'What Am I as a Man?'


snip

He knew what it looked like. Mr. Trump was kind of crazy. But he liked the fact that he didn’t back down. Then Mr. Trump brought up Nafta, and it was like he was speaking directly to Mr. Marsh. Nothing else mattered — not Russia, not porn stars, not divorces.

With His Job Gone, an Autoworker Wonders, 'What Am I as a Man?'

Mr. Marsh? Guess you should ask these men.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

6. Perhaps Mr. Marsh will have seen the light.....

That Trump let him down big time. That the tax cut was a tax hike. That the rust-belt jobs he promised are actually gone.

Perhaps Mr. Marsh will have learned his lesson NEVER trust a Snake Oil salesman.

[Hoyt]

8. Another group of ignorant white wingers attracted to a racist candidate. Nothing new.

[Blue_true]

25. I don't think that applies to this guy and his dad.

They voted for a Black man twice. The son says he will vote for anyone that can fix the problem, regardless of race or sex. I take him at his word.

I think the telling part of the story was automation. The number of jobs in the paint shop where he started was 38 in 1970 and 4 in 2016. My guess in a few years it may be one in a massive paint shop, the work done by robots with one man or woman to monitor them. That is where the world is headed. Even small companies would use robots if they can afford them, that is going to accelerate.

Some here have mentioned GI as a solution. I think that people other than just Andrew Yang need to start seriously thinking about how that solution would be implemented in a largely jobless economy.

[wellst0nev0ter]

35. A trumpanzee is a trumpanzee

no matter how he voted in the past. Racism and general crassness were not dealbreakers for him, fuckim.

[Hoyt]

38. Exactly. Everyone who voted for trump knew what he was.

Endorsing a racist pretty makes one a racist too.

[MyOwnPeace]

9. His lack of awareness of the world..........

and the way it works shows. For instance:

“He might understand business, but he doesn’t understand our business.” ...he says about the bankrupt king who won't even reveal ANY of his business records. Did he really think that a "business genius" snake that had bitten so many was simply going to crawl up to him and give him a hug?

Yes, I feel terrible for him - and all of the workers that are suffering under this current international trade situation. But you don't just give it all up and vote for the latest flim-flam medicine man that comes into town promising you health, wealth, and happiness, especially one with the track record like the "Stable Genius" IQ45!

[bitterross]

10. You are NOTHING as a man because you voted for Trump.

You didn't bother to think or look out for your family. You didn't bother to look at history and see that Trump is nothing but a con artist. You didn't bother to stop being a racist.

YOU are NOTHING and you SHOULD be full of shame.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. +1000000!

[brush]

11. Idiots all of them. WTF were they watching? Hillary won all those debates.

It just reveals their inner white male privilege/preference and sexism.

They just wanted another white guy in the WH no matter how unfit and crazy he was.

I have no sympathy.

[John Fante]

16. +1000

I'll never forget Chuck Todd arguing - with a big shit-eating grin on his face - that Trump won the second debate. They saw what they wanted to see.

[Historic NY]

14. Do people really expect auto makers will keep producing

at plants the don't need. Should Ford continue to make cars when the don't sell. For that matter should Toyota which has storage lots packed with cars they can sell. GM is trying to survive, he lucky he has had a good ten year run and they didn't go belly up. The Republicans clearly would have let that happen. A direct result was keep pieces of the GM supply chain were sold off . China ended up with the parts reconditioning-rebuilding end and they literally just spray paint some of the crap and send it back. People are becoming obsolete in auto factories as more and more robotic take over the boring jobs many always complained about. Being a global company GM and the other should be able to produce anywhere w/o threats from Trump.

Of course no one told him how Trump screws over his own employees and contractors.

[John Fante]

15. Womp womp, Mr. Marsh.

There are babies in cages at the border right now, being traumatized for life by this administration. The ones that haven't died, of course.

I couldn't give one solid shit about your issues. Anyone with half a brain could see that Trump gave the three worst debate performances in the history of presidential politics. Electrifying? Fuck you.

[keithbvadu2]

19. No sweat! Jobs aplenty in the booming coal industry Trump is bringing back.

No sweat! Jobs aplenty in the booming coal industry Trump is bringing back.

[struggle4progress]

20. "He seemed totally crazy and uninformed. So I voted for him"

[Different Drummer]

24. As good a reason as any.

[ProudLib72]

41. Well at least he didn't say

"I liked the cut of his jib, so I voted for him."

[blueinredohio]

22. I'm a retired auto worker. I have been laid off too many times to count.

Lose my seniority then get called back to start all over again, I didn't think I would ever get enough time in to retire. What pisses me off about people like this is they suck the union teat get every benefit the union gets for them then turn around to stab them in the back to vote republican.

[Different Drummer]

23. This tells you all you need to know about what he is as a man.

Mr. Marsh voted for trump

[lunasun]

26. he was excited by trump during the debates & liked the crazy

Voted for trump...along with just under half the workers represented by the union.

[Hekate]

31. He just sounds so...misogynistic in his view of the debates. Hillary sounded like a policy wonk ...

..with a woman's heart for others' misfortunes. (May I point out right here that I like that in a candidate.) Trump went in swinging and grabbed people by their hindbrains. The guy said Trump "kept landing blows" like a boxer (i.e. a manly man, amirite?), but what a lot of the rest of us saw was a well-prepared woman who was not playing any games up against a stalking abusive bully.

We saw her preparedness, and that guy saw a man beating a woman.

[Aussie105]

32. A living wage

even for those not working.

That's what is needed.

Retired school teacher here, 40 years in the job.

When you first start working, you find that the routine impinges greatly on your freedoms. You trade your freedom and time for an income.
You get used to it, and after a while, get to like the structure the routine brings to your life.
When you retire, or lose your job, you have to reverse this process.

I had all sorts of reasons for working, but in the final analysis, the need for an income is the main one.
In my case, I stashed away money so that in the end, it made no difference financially if I quit early.

The solution to auto workers cut adrift? A living wage, paid despite someone not working. It's called unemployment benefits or a pension, seems to work well in other parts of the world, why not America?

I wouldn't vote for a Snake Oil Salesman promising things he could never deliver. But I would vote for someone who can promise an income safety net to those who are retrenched, leave work due to ill health, or retire early.

[peggysue2]

33. To me, this would be a no-brainer

Trump lied through his teeth, pretended to know things he knew nothing about (unions, the coal industry, trade deals) and tried his best to kill the ACA with no replacement and has threatened Medicaid recipients with severe cuts. Mr. Marsh has a child with cerebral palsy, for God's sake. That alone should have his head spinning into an anti-Trump rant. But no, the framing of 'all politicians are the same, Dems & Repubs' has taken root and become fact for the man.

This is the sort of cognitive disconnect all our candidates will need to address: an economy that works for the greatest number, not merely the CEOs/investors and sustainable, reliable healthcare across the board. There are other issues to address certainly but for someone like Marsh and his coworkers, this is at the heart of the matter for 2020.

[mia]

34. 'Nobody Had Our Backs'

“It’s literally in your face — the decline of manufacturing,” he said. “You can work where I work and watch it.”

Nafta had given him a new political awareness: Republicans may have started it, but it was Democrats who sealed the deal.

“That’s when I realized these parties were not so different,” he said. “They are all there to make money on our backs.”

Still, he kept voting for Democrats, including twice for Barack Obama. He gives him credit for the bailout of G.M. The company would have died without that help. But it made him angry that a financial crisis that started with banks ended with autoworkers giving up raises and the right to strike, which seemed to him the only real leverage they still had.

I voted for Obama twice but for Bernie in the primaries because he was opposed to NAFTA and the TPP. I could never figure out why Obama and the Clintons favored these trade deals. I voted for Hillary, nevertheless.

[wellst0nev0ter]

36. If we had an infrastructure program

that would jump start the manufacturing industry, but nope, they had to vote for the racist conman.

Fuckim.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

39. "Mr. Marsh and many of his neighbors, far from knowing how they will vote in 2020?"

These people are going to take us all down the tubes with them!

Their only hope is a Democratic President, Senate, and House.

[Initech]

40. The scary thing is that they won't do anything to change it.

They'll just keep voting for the same right wing trash time and time again. Definition of insanity.

[maxrandb]

42. I'm sending this Dipshit thoughts and prayers n/t

[ananda]

43. As far as I'm concerned ..

anyone who voted for MF45 is complicit in a complete
loss of humanity.

[HAB911]

44. Wish I could feel for him

I can't