Triumph of Evil

[angrychair]

Traveling this week to see family on the east coast. BIL is marginally employed and living out of his car. Not because he can't find a job but because he is a classical neer-do-well, shiftless gaslighter (and a white male under 35).
Haven't talked to him is almost 7 years. Thought I'd give the benefit of the doubt and try to have a conversation with him when we ran into each other on 4th of July but he only proved to be as bad as I thought, if not worse.

It wasnt that we were on completely opposite ends of the spectrum, on everything from asylum seekers and children in concentration camps to abortion, it was his words. He said something that stuck in my head that I couldn't shake. I was running down the very long list of ways that trump has violated the law, from his "university" scam to rape, and when confronted with this he said this:

"Fine. I just like him because he talks shit to people and tells them like it is. He says what I'm thinking."

The statement unnerved me. He was every trump supporter in a nutshell: Their hate and discontent is not reasoned or measured, it's just anger looking for an easy target.

No target is easier and has less repercussions than those that are already marginalized and disenfranchised.

I then came across this article of a German politician that was assassinated last month. The first one since WWII. the rise of extremists and xenophobia is no different in all of Europe but is most disconcerting to many Germans, who still vividly remember their past.

This recent development, the attack on a pro immigrant politician, may be anomalous but when looked at in context: rise of far right political parties, attack on journalists and increasingly violent attacks on traditionally disenfranchised groups like immigrants and LGBTQ, these developments represent a worldwide trend, not a anomaly.

While I'm obviously not saying my BIL is violent, it's the pervasive and relentless racism, bigotry and xenophobia we are allowing, directly and indirectly through inaction, to fester in our society that leads to this type of violence and apathy.

As the NPR article quotes one person as saying:

Unleashing of resentment is one of the conditions for murder and for violence."

Unless we confront these people and challenge their positions we are allowing these ideas to fester and grow and take the form of physical violence in others, even if they originated with a source that does not overtly endorse violence.

As Sir Edmund Burke said (in a longer letter to Thomas Mercer):

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/01/737561640/a-german-politicians-assassination-prompts-new-fears-about-far-right-violence

[Funtatlaguy]

1. Hillary has it right. They are deplorable.

[tulipsandroses]

2. These people are completely irrational

They cannot be reasoned with. For that reason, I don't understand why some people want to go after the Trump vote. Its a waste of time. In regards to the hard core base.
No amount of campaigning is going to change their minds. That is going to take psychological and spiritual work on their part.

I'm not saying Democrats should not go where they are, the people that are Trump triers, that naively thought he was a good business man capable of making deals, can be won. The hard core Trump supporters, will not be won. - Sadly- Trump did not create these people, they had these thoughts and feelings long before Trump. He made it OK for them to bring it to light of day.

[angrychair]

4. I agree but not sure you understood me

Seeking the trump supporter vote is pointless. Reasoning with them is as n act of fruitless frustration.

What we must never do is be permissive or passive when it comes to trump supporters or any that traffic in racist, sexist, xenophobic or bigoted hate speech.

These people foster an environment that leads to violence and apathy. They are the roots of this tree of spoiled fruit.

[tulipsandroses]

5. I totally understand what you are saying. I went off on a tangent

That had nothing to do with what you posted. My own ruminating thoughts that are tied into what you posted.

I get a bit frustrated myself when I hear people saying Democrats cannot win unless they go after "the forgotten man" those being - the trumpers- The ones that have used the guise of being left behind and their " economic angst" as a basis for their support of Trump -. They lay their troubles at the feet of others. When you start to get to the root of it - its as you have posted - His thoughts align with what they were already thinking.

[pangaia]

3. You are 100% right.

Making a threat of 'the other' is, of course, one of the tenants of fascism. It is happening here, of course, but also in many place on the planet. Fascism, or any type of authoritarianism...

And right now, in the usa, I feel people are doing nothing.

We should emulate the Hong Kongers. They CARE !

[paleotn]

15. That they do in Hong Kong....

They've had a front row seat to authoritarianism of different varieties. I fear Americans feel they are immune. We're not. In fact, we're far more vulnerable.

[ancianita]

6. I hear you. And do not seek their vote. Appreciate that you know we also cannot NOT engage them, for

a couple of reasons.

We have to ask them what kind of leader should we have; first, one who represents our best aspirations or our worst intentions; second, do we really want a president who thinks what we're thinking?

I know my answers, but will quote history (which is factually unarguable) to any Trumper who answers different from me.

[Martin Eden]

7. Trump "tells them like it is"

My response to that would be No, Trump tells them like it isn't. He is a pathological liar with more 10,000 documented lies and misleading statements since he took office. You have been deeply conned if you actually believe what he says.

[reACTIONary]

18. That's what should be said, but...

... "tells them like it is" doesn't mean "tells them the truth"; it means "he talks shit to people". The deplorables aren't interested in the truth or facts. They are interested in having their prejudice, resentment, hate, and fear expressed and maybe even acted upon.

[Martin Eden]

19. Perhaps the Socratic method should be employed

If the Trumper is willing to engage, ask questions which will eventually lead to an answer contrary to his belief.

Conversion is doubtful, but the seeds of lingering questions could have an effect.

[reACTIONary]

20. Engagement may require...

... active listening, demonstrating an understanding of what is being said or expressed. That might take a lot of patience and self control. If you could talk them down from the emotional response you might be able to enter into a Socratic dialog.

But it wouldn't be easy.

[Martin Eden]

21. Not easy to engage, and probably fruitless

There are 3 basic options, but "engage" is the only one with potential for anything positive.

The other two are confront and avoid.

[reACTIONary]

24. Well, I guess you pays your money...

...and you takes your choice.

[mountain grammy]

8. Far beyond deplorable. Pure evil.

[lindysalsagal]

9. Refusal to grow up and take responsibility: Perpetual 5th graders

frump's their poster child.

[Karadeniz]

10. Wow! I feel like you met a monster...and survived. There is such a thing as truth and light.

We need to figure out how to get light to penetrate these people in darkness.

[AJT]

11. Did you reply with:

"Says my unemployed, lazy, shiftless, wilfully ignorant, failure of a brother in-law."?

[lunatica]

23. Or just simply ask him

if that’s why he’s such a failure, and when he blames others again use the example of your other successful relatives and ask how come they’re doing OK in the same society he’s failing in. Who handed them something he didn’t get?

[randr]

12. I am begining to believe that an undiagnosed mental disorder

is spreading around the world. A virus that we have yet to identify that causes people to think irrationally.
Has anyone come across a trumper that has changed? Let us know how it was accomplished.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

13. But he does not "tell it like it is".

He tells lie after lie laced with massive deception.

Maybe he tells it like they would like things to be or like one of W's people said "we create our own reality".

I suspect your friend has been listening to too much Limbaugh on that car's radio and Rush and tRump are doing his thinking for him. Far less work required than doing ones own thinking.

[jmbar2]

14. Mix of evil and despair

My armchair analysis

Sounds like he's looking to reduce others in order to raise his own self-esteem. He is a nobody with no future (at least at this time). It's got to be frightening and depressing. Bullying others can be like a drug that temporarily lifts you up. if he can "get one over the Dems" in a conversation, he gets a momentary high from it.

They've learned these patterns of interaction from Rush, Fox and Trump, but it's actually a pretty limited repertoire of outrage-evoking memes.

I would have asked how he lives in his car, remarking that there are now whole websites and blogs about "nomad" life. It's the one thing that he's good at right now. Give him a moment of psychic respite talking about stuff other than hatefulness. If he had several conversations like this each week with Democrats, it might not change his political views, but it might relieve some anxiety and hopelessness that makes him cling to the bullying rightwing lifestyle.

That's my theory...

[Locrian]

16. absolutely....

One things I've seen is that people will side with anyone that can "stick it to their enemy". It's an actual (disrupted) survival behavior.
Plus it's a lot easier to lash out at the poor, friends etc than to do anything about the real root causes.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/economic-inequality-it-s-far-worse-than-you-think/

I fear we will not make it as a species - with climate change looming etc. All we seem to be doing is fighting against each other while the world (literally) burns.

[patphil]

17. Trump is a satan

As such, he feeds off the emotions of fear, anger, and hatred. That is why he connected with his "base".
They are lower level dark beings that have little or no love in their hearts. They are attracted to him as a moth to a flame, and he takes in their energies.
This is why he continued to have rally after rally after becoming president.
This is why he looks for ways to create fear, anger, and hatred in both his supporters and adversaries.
It's all the same to him. He cares not for his base as people, only as a "food" source.

I know this sounds really stupid, but it's the actual truth.
He will tear this country down if you let him; he would tear the world down.
Everything is just a means to an end to him.
There is no love in any of his actions.

In this respect, he is identical to Hitler.

Patrick Phillips

[Caliman73]

22. "As it is" v As they want it.

Perspective is important almost all humans are more likely to see things that they agree with as being "truth" and things they do not support as somehow "false".

This seems particularly prevalent for conservatives which makes the creation of Fox News and the right wing media bubble all the more disturbing. In my opinion, people on the left seem more generally skeptical and rely on evidence and are open to challenges to what we hold to be true. Conservatives hold onto discredited ideas despite all of the evidence to the contrary and they see it as strength to do so.

They need to be defeated, not simply ignored.