So let's game it out. Trump defies the USSC ruling and puts the citizenship question in the census.

[Stinky The Clown]

Now what?

By defying the Supreme Court he puts himself above the law. Untouchable. In essence, a dictator.

That would clearly be impeachable.

So we impeach him.

The Senate lets him ride.

Now what?

[Fullduplexxx]

1. Vote blue no matter who in november

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Of course, but does he get away with his defiance? Does it stand as precedent?

[uponit7771]

15. How does numbers help a hacked election?

[Fullduplexxx]

37. Makes it harder to hack

[uponit7771]

38. How, there's no auditing? "I saw more a than b voters..." doesn't work

[Historic NY]

2. Americans should just boycott the question

[Stinky The Clown]

3. But that lets him ciontinue to defy the court order.

[yellowdogintexas]

4. I believe one is not required to answer it.

I will not answer it if it is on my forms.

I have a passport, they can look me up if they want to take the trouble

[dflprincess]

11. Here's the problem with not answering the question

I will bet that the Republicans will claim that reapportionment must be based on the number of citizens, not residents, in a state. Not answering it could come back to bite us if they were successful with that type of argument,

I say everyone just answer "Yes", regardless of status.

[maxrandb]

25. Except that the Constitution says "people" NOT citizens

That was argued in-depth by the founders. The count is for all people in the United States.

Even non-citizen are entitled to representation.

I would think that even evil fuckstick Retrumplicans from red States would want the immigrants that work in their towns to be counted.

[dflprincess]

34. But they don't want everyone counted in California or New York

or even in Minnesota where we have a large Somali population (though many of the Somalis are now citizens).

If they wanted everyone counted they wouldn't be trying to scare people off with a citizenship question.

[AJT]

6. That would end any confidence the american people have in government institutions.

That is the end of our democracy.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. It could well be.

Unless he loses the election and actually gets prosecuted. I don't know for what, but surely there is something.

[NoMoreRepugs]

16. It would be supported by tens of millions of the

Deplorables and IMO cause a rift amongst the populace that wont be healed for decades.

[dflprincess]

7. And what about the Director of the Census?

Sure, a Trump appointee, but shouldn't he also be expected to follow the Court decision, not an order from Spanky?

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Sure, but what can be done if HE follows Trump and not the law?

[dflprincess]

12. That's what I'm wondering

If his oath included a vow to "preserve, protect, and defend" the Constitution maybe he could be impeached?

[Turin_C3PO]

9. I don't know.

I think the answer is, yes, we would have a dictatorship. I don’t think there’s any way other than Senate conviction to hold him accountable. Our only hope at that point would be the 2020 elections.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. So let's follow *that* thought for a bit.

Once he crosses the line with this census question, he is solidly in "dictator" territory. There may not even *be* 2020 elections.

[Turin_C3PO]

14. Scary thought but

I suppose it’s possible. He’d have to declare martial law or something like that. My biggest fear is that he loses and then cries “voter fraud” and tries to stay in office. I’m reasonably sure the Secret Service and US Marshalls would remove him, but ya never know.

[Stuart G]

17. If he stays in the White House, and the new president orders him out, and he doesn't leave...

Then, the US Marshalls and the Secret Service, and the U.S. Army on orders from the new President of the United States..will physically remove him and his wife, and all his furniture and all of his stuff
.... Especially if the Supreme Court Orders him out. It won't look good, but the country will support his physical removal, if he does not leave for the new president. That is what will happen if Trump refuses to leave. But, I do not think he will refuse, especially if the loss is substantial. (and I think it will be, A HUGE LOSS )

[Turin_C3PO]

18. That's what I believe too.

He’d be dragged out in handcuffs. I’d love to see that lol.

[Stuart G]

20. Trump hasn't got a clue. But I do think he will leave if he looses.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. At that point, he IS the law and can call it anything he wishes. No need for martial law.

There will only be Trump Law.

[Everyman Jackal]

39. Let him stay there.

It is January, take off all outside doors, shut off all utilities and don't let in any deliveries or people. Remove all the furniture. Fumigate the place.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. At that point

Violence will begin.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. I will probably take a thumping for this

But - it's funded by the House -

https://budget.house.gov/publications/report/these-are-our-numbers-importance-2020-census

Three IT field tests have been cancelled. Failure points could exist in the online census.

What if - we the people who pay for it will asked the House to delay it until 2021?

What if - it was late one year?


The obvious failure point in our Democracy of nothing happens to Trump for defying the Supreme Court . . . It will create grave consequences not that far down the line.


A majority of minorities could react with rage - in a few years time.


I will not accept the results of that Census if that question is on it. Will you?

[Mach1miles]

22. The court ruled and he plans to defy it.

He has been defying congress for two years. If he moves forward with his question on the census those two branches would have to make a stand. It is their job. They were not put in place to give the powers away. If they refuse to do their jobs then we are done. There is no sense electing people to jobs that hold no power. Once power is given away it is impossible to get it back.

The State Department has assigned a panel to investigate human rights and natural law. WTF. This is as scary as all of the rest. My guess is that they are ready to pop out a Patriot Act type document that has already been written for them just as the PA was. This will be the bars on our cages.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

32. Has the SCOTUS ever hauled anyone before it for contempt of court?

If not, they can establish a precedent having (whom?) arrest Fat Donnie and his personal Roy Cohen before them.

[Fiendish Thingy]

23. Draw up articles of impeachment, then let them dangle

Throughout primary season, while hearings continue, and Americans become acutely aware of the erosion of the balance of powers. Every night on the news

Then let’s see how the senate reacts.

[RockRaven]

24. He IS going to put the question on, no matter what any courts say. We had better have an answer

to your question, because it WILL happen.

Barr let the cat out of the bag today. They will put the question on the census, PERIOD, and EVERYONE will pass the buck. There is no court decision or order which will stop the Trump admin from putting the question on the census. P-E-R-I-O-D. They will do it and damn the consequences.

The Commerce Department will pass the buck to the DOJ. The DOJ will pass the buck to Commerce. The department heads will pass the buck to their legal staff and deputies and all the peons, the deputies and legal staff and all the peons will pass the buck to their boss. The courts might penalize a handful of people, minimally, but the damage will be done and no penalty could possibly make it right.

[dawg day]

27. I'm wondering if the Supreme Court will decide to assert that it DOES have authority-

They did this in US v. Nixon with a unanimous decision that the president had to obey the court ruling.

We'll just have to see if Trump's guys on the court are more loyal to him or more protective of their own constitutional power. I bet John Roberts will decide he wants to in charge of a Supreme Court with power... not one that knelt down to the executive branch.

We'll see.
Notice that the DOJ attorneys involved in this case all withdrew (probably -- Neil Katyal intimated-- because they objected to what Barr and Trump are planning). I wonder if the judge will make them explain why they did that, and whether they'll tell the truth.
Barr brought in a few attorneys who mostly do Consumer Protection Board work.
Maybe finally the professionals are starting to rebel against this blatant abuse of executive power.

[lordsummerisle]

28. How could an additional question be added if the printing is already in progress?

Separate mailing? Would separate funding need to be approved for this?

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Being silly, but a preprinted Post-It note would do.

[shanti]

35. Throw out the ones without the question

that are/were being printed? That would be a huge sum of $$$, but when has that ever stopped them?

[kentuck]

30. Congress can pass a statute...

...stating that all citizens have the legal right to ignore the question. Period.

[bluecollar2]

31. And it dies

In the Senate...

[ecstatic]

33. If the senate lets it ride, they know something we don't

As in, our elections are fixed and they can do whatever the fuck they want. Otherwise, they wouldn't want to set the precedent that a president can ignore the Supreme Court--which is currently a rightwing supreme court.

[Grasswire2]

36. impeachment doesn't mean removal.

Take it slow, grind him into the mud every freaking day while changing public opinion as time goes on.

The groundswell would come. It did in Watergate. No need for a Senate vote if the numbers aren't there. But public demand can become paramount.

[Everyman Jackal]

40. That is what I want.

They can start Articles of Impeachment but they never have to impeach just keep calling witnesses. Neither the Senate nor The Supreme Court can give them a deadline.