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lapucelle

(18,351 posts)
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:03 PM Aug 2019

Time magazine op-ed: President Bill Clinton: Reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban Now

For too long, America has allowed a determined, well-financed group to pretend to grieve with us while spreading paranoia among those who responsibly use guns for hunting, sport shooting and self-protection. For too long, the gun lobby and their elected allies have stalled, deflected and changed the conversation until the pressure abates and they can get back to business, heedless of the killings inevitably yet to come.

It pains me to see people in the culture I grew up in buy into the argument that banning weapons of war threatens the Second Amendment and their way of life. As the 1994 assault-weapons ban shows, deaths from mass shootings fell while the number of hunting licenses actually increased. No one has to give up their culture to save the lives of innocent people, so many of them very young.

The gun lobby often invokes the Democratic losses in the 1994 midterm elections after passing the assault-weapons ban and the Brady background-check bill to try to scare lawmakers of both parties into maintaining the status quo. Those who lost their seats in that election did cast brave votes to make our country safer and give our children the chance to grow up and live their dreams. The 2018 elections, thanks to the passionate activism of citizen groups across the country, proved that it’s a different world now. Today members of Congress will be supported if they reinstate the assault-weapons and large-ammunition magazine bans, and if the Senate passes the universal-background-check law already passed by the House of Representatives.


You can read the rest here.

https://time.com/5647319/bill-clinton-assault-weapons-column/?utm_source=Clinton+Foundation&utm_campaign=b5e55c96db-20190809Oped&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3e0b4430e6-b5e55c96db-256067913
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Time magazine op-ed: President Bill Clinton: Reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban Now (Original Post) lapucelle Aug 2019 OP
Off to the greatest page malaise Aug 2019 #1
Bush's silence is puzzling. lapucelle Aug 2019 #3
I wonder if he is "not well" and his family is keeping him to a routine at home Hekate Aug 2019 #9
In 1994 Dianne Feinstein wrote the Assualt Weapon Ban. Data showed that mass killings with assualt still_one Aug 2019 #2
Politifact on Clinton's Claim "We rate this claim Half True." aikoaiko Aug 2019 #4
Yep, every gunner had to have one. But, I'm for trying the ban again, permanently. Hoyt Aug 2019 #5
"Clinton exaggerated the decline but was right about the rise. We rate this claim Half True." lapucelle Aug 2019 #6
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Aug 2019 #10
+1000 ehrnst Aug 2019 #21
Don't worry. Nobody is going to take your Precious away. BannonsLiver Aug 2019 #7
"More popular"is much different from "more available". People may have found it more appealing... George II Aug 2019 #8
This is not true. I bought my first AR15s in 2002-03. ARs were available during the ban. aikoaiko Aug 2019 #11
"Post-ban weapons (1994-2004) could only have a detachable magazine lapucelle Aug 2019 #18
No worries. I have plenty of no ban rifles. aikoaiko Aug 2019 #23
You have plenty of "no ban rifles", so I shouldn't worry? lapucelle Aug 2019 #24
Its just a saying. Worry all you want. aikoaiko Aug 2019 #29
I wouldn't waste my time with those who love their F**king ARs, and brag how much fun it is to still_one Aug 2019 #28
Thank you. N/T lapucelle Aug 2019 #30
What purpose does a weapon like that serve in American society? George II Aug 2019 #22
They are effective rifles for self-defense, recreation, and competition. aikoaiko Aug 2019 #27
"....mass shootings aside, they are effective rifles." George II Aug 2019 #32
"Mass shootings aside, they are effective rifles." lapucelle Aug 2019 #31
AR-15s were very much available during the AWB hack89 Aug 2019 #12
So he shouldn't have done it? mcar Aug 2019 #14
I don't know, but there might be fewer AR15s and such out there today, but for the AWB aikoaiko Aug 2019 #15
Ok mcar Aug 2019 #16
It wouldnt be the first time a law produced unintended consequences aikoaiko Aug 2019 #17
And there might have been more. N/T lapucelle Aug 2019 #20
So an assault weapons ban resulted in MORE assault weapons? Unbelievable. George II Aug 2019 #33
Ever hear of the Forbidden Fruit Effect. aikoaiko Aug 2019 #34
Kick mcar Aug 2019 #13
Hopefully if they re-instate one, it'll be a bit more effective. jmg257 Aug 2019 #19
Gun makers already have pump-action AR's for states with AWB's NickB79 Aug 2019 #25
Yes!!! whathehell Aug 2019 #26
K & R SunSeeker Aug 2019 #35

still_one

(92,422 posts)
2. In 1994 Dianne Feinstein wrote the Assualt Weapon Ban. Data showed that mass killings with assualt
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:07 PM
Aug 2019

weapons decreased significantly.

The republicans refused to extend the Assault Weapon Ban 10 years later.

While background checks, and other tools are also necessary, why wasn't the Assault Weapon Ban extended?


 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. Yep, every gunner had to have one. But, I'm for trying the ban again, permanently.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:55 PM
Aug 2019

Your link indicates that the coddling of gunners -- by exempting rifles that should have fallen within the banned weapons -- impeded the bans' effectiveness.

Let's not make that same mistake, no matter how loudly gunners whine.

lapucelle

(18,351 posts)
6. "Clinton exaggerated the decline but was right about the rise. We rate this claim Half True."
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:20 PM
Aug 2019
Clinton spoke too strongly about the drop. In simple numbers, mass shooting deaths fell during the ban years —15 deaths over the course of the decade. But statistically, that number is too small to allow strong conclusions. Even the author of the report Clinton relied on said the death rate might have declined —or leveled off.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/aug/07/bill-clinton/did-mass-shooting-deaths-fall-under-1994-assault-w/


Concerning your post hoc ergo propter hoc speculative conclusion:

The backlash [against assault weapons] peaked in 1994, when President Bill Clinton signed a ban on the sale of many types of semiautomatic rifles deemed “assault weapons,” including versions of the AR-15. Manufacturers continued making versions of the AR-15 that complied with the new law, which was allowed to expire in 2004. That set the stage for an explosion in AR-15 sales.

By then, military-style weapons were becoming a more common sight in America, due largely to the response to the 9/11 attacks. Anti-terror police forces began patrolling cities and transportation hubs, and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were covered intimately. That higher visibility seemingly fed a desire among gun owners to get what the troops and cops were using.

With encouragement from the gun industry, the AR-15 grew popular not only among people who enjoyed owning the latest tactical gear, but also among recreational and competitive target shooters, and hunters. Many saw it as a pinnacle of firearms engineering — ergonomic, accurate, reliable.



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/america-s-rifle-why-so-many-people-love-ar-15-n831171


I salute Bill Clinton and all our allies in this fight.



As for all the rest pushing anti-AWB talking points, thoughts, prayers, and a very emphatic, "Well bless your heart!"




George II

(67,782 posts)
8. "More popular"is much different from "more available". People may have found it more appealing...
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:37 PM
Aug 2019

....because it was prohibited, but people had no access to the AR15.

aikoaiko

(34,184 posts)
11. This is not true. I bought my first AR15s in 2002-03. ARs were available during the ban.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:48 PM
Aug 2019

The only differences from the ones I bought then and the ones I buy now were that in 2002 I didn't have a flash suppressor or a bayonet lug. And I can get collapsible stocks, too. There were plenty of used 30-round magazines.

[IMG][/IMG]

The AWB promoted the hell out of AR-15s and other banned rifles.

lapucelle

(18,351 posts)
18. "Post-ban weapons (1994-2004) could only have a detachable magazine
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:12 PM
Aug 2019
and one of the following: Folding/collapsing, pistol grip, flash suppressor, bayonet lug, capable of firing a muzzle mounted rifle-grenade."

Dang! If you had waited for a "no ban" weapon (2004-present), you could have had one with the collapsible stocks, a flash suppressor, a bayonet lug, and the muzzle mounted rifle-grenade.




lapucelle

(18,351 posts)
24. You have plenty of "no ban rifles", so I shouldn't worry?
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:44 PM
Aug 2019

Interesting.

Please don't tell me whether or not I should worry about folks having plenty of "no ban rifles" and/or assault weapons.

still_one

(92,422 posts)
28. I wouldn't waste my time with those who love their F**king ARs, and brag how much fun it is to
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:06 PM
Aug 2019

modify them so they can potentially even more kill things more efficiently

That speaks volumes to me about their mindset





aikoaiko

(34,184 posts)
27. They are effective rifles for self-defense, recreation, and competition.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:02 PM
Aug 2019

And, sadly yes, murder, too.

They have a lot going for them. They are modular and that explains their lasting presence. You can swap parts easily to customize your AR.

It's cheap and easy to swap barrels for longer or shorter ones. You can even switch barrels to shoot different ammo. I have 2 ARs set up to shoot 9mm. The pistol grip is ergonomic compared to classic rifles stocks. The collapsible stock helps it fit differently sized people. Kept clean and lubed they function very well. Its easy to attach different sights, optics, and lights, to ARs.

The only thing that makes it really different from a lot of semiauto rifles is the detachable magazines.

For those who only see or hear about AR15s in the context of mass shootings, I'm sure all of that seems absurd, but mass shootings aside, they are effective rifles.

George II

(67,782 posts)
32. "....mass shootings aside, they are effective rifles."
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 09:55 PM
Aug 2019

Effective rifles? Hooboy!

So recreation and "competition" are more important to some than the precious lives of hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans.

Sorry, I've lost words beyond that to respond.

lapucelle

(18,351 posts)
31. "Mass shootings aside, they are effective rifles."
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 09:27 PM
Aug 2019

They seem pretty effective for mass shootings as well.



hack89

(39,171 posts)
12. AR-15s were very much available during the AWB
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:53 PM
Aug 2019

Once the manufacturers made the necessary cosmetic changes to their rifles. Adam Lanza's rifle was legal during the AWB.

aikoaiko

(34,184 posts)
17. It wouldnt be the first time a law produced unintended consequences
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:09 PM
Aug 2019

Ten years of advertising the normally configured AR-15 as too dangerous to own because of its "fire power" followed by 15 years of no restrictions in most places was a double whammy.


jmg257

(11,996 posts)
19. Hopefully if they re-instate one, it'll be a bit more effective.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:14 PM
Aug 2019

[link:|


This ban-legal AR is still a very deadly weapon.

NickB79

(19,274 posts)
25. Gun makers already have pump-action AR's for states with AWB's
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:45 PM
Aug 2019

Which are almost indistinguishable from semi-auto AR's but not covered by any proposed legislation.

https://worldoftroy.com/product/troy-pump-action-rifle-optic-ready-2019/

There are even kits to convert existing semi-auto AR's to pump for $300.

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