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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNEW: Jeff Epstein autopsy found multiple neck bone fractures, which can be caused by suicidal
Autopsy finds broken bones in Jeffrey Epsteins neck, deepening questions around his death
An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.
Among the bones broken in Epsteins neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adams apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said.
... snip
People familiar with the autopsy, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive stage of the investigation, said Sampsons office is seeking additional information on Epsteins condition in the hours before his death. That could include video evidence of the jail hallways, which may establish whether anyone entered Epsteins cell during the night he died; results of a toxicology screening to determine if there was any unusual substance in his body; and interviews with guards and inmates who were near his cell.
Jonathan L. Arden, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners, said a hyoid can be broken in many circumstances, but is more commonly associated with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging.
More: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html
roamer65
(36,745 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It would be good if the commenting experts could be provided with a description of the arrangement in which he was found, so that they could determine whether the mechanics would be more or less likely to have caused that breakage.
Blue Owl
(50,356 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)Watch the guards for the next few years. See if they spend more money
than they earn. There was a lot at stake here. Someone who wanted
Epstein silenced could have paid a lot for assistance.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)on the skin around his neck? I saw a photo of someone who hanged himself and you could almost see what type of material the ligature was made of and how wide it was since the marks were very well preserved...you could even see the texture of the ligature.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Money buys most things, but it is becoming more difficult to buy...
the M word without being discovered.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)he had to be found that way to claim it was a suicide.
brush
(53,776 posts)Why leave that out?
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)MelissaB
(16,420 posts)brush
(53,776 posts)The way it is written re-enforces the notion that Epstein hung himself.
malaise
(268,968 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)May I be the first DU'er to say, this shit is now scary.
Happens in Russia and North Korea quite often.
triron
(22,001 posts)"A handful of studies conducted over the past decade have produced conflicting results about the likelihood of a hyoid break in a suicide. In a study of 20 suicidal hangings in Thailand, published in 2010, one-fourth of the men who hanged themselves had broken hyoids. In a larger study of suicidal hangings of young-adults and middle-aged people in India, conducted from 2010 to 2013, hyoid damage was found in just 16 of 264 cases, or six percent. The study addressed the discrepancies in academic reviews, saying wide variations in findings of hyoid breaks are "possibly due to factors like age of the victim, weight of the victim, type of suspension and height of suspension." "
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)that if one had a platform some distance from the ground... and a noose with a rope long enough to allow the body to accelerate due to gravity... then broken bones in the neck would result.
That, obviously, wasn't the case here.
Another way to break the neck bones would be to apply extreme pressure... likely past the point of consciousness... especially to the back of the neck. Hard to do with a suicide.
I would guess most suicides that do not involve jumping from a ladder or platform show only the cutoff of the windpipe for long enough to cause death and not break the bones in the neck.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)That darn hyoid bone fractures in 25% of hangings. So what if strangulation is more likely to break it.
I'm open to the conclusion of homicide, but I'd this is the best evidence . . . .
Aussie105
(5,388 posts)A cell specifically set up to prevent this, yet . . .
Let's not call it a 'possible suicide', call it what it is . . . an unexplained death in secure custody.
radius777
(3,635 posts)He either died because (a) they were too stupid/incompetent to make sure he stayed alive, or (b) because they wanted him to die.
Dems need to get ahead of this narrative, call for Barr to recuse himself, shine the focus back on Trump/Barr instead of letting them push absurd Clinton conspiracy theories to distract the public.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)Were drugged to sleep? Too speculative and conspiratorial, I know.
triron
(22,001 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)by tying, presumably, a bedsheet around his neck, anchoring one end to something high and pulling the other end around his neck tight.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)Broken bone in the neck is unlikely in hanging anyway, and while I'm no medical expert, I imagine in the cases where that does occur, the hanging would be done with a rope and jumping from a height. Not a slow strangulation with a bedsheet.
No. Not buying it.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)hanging breaks your neck.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)When you hang yourself it's more than suffocating yourself? This is interesting and I had no idea.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)when done as capital punishment off a gallows, it's supposed to break the neck and sever the spine immediately.
I'd guess it's more likely that a suicide done like Epstein's is asphyxiation, though.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)His noose made out of bed sheet.
Would that break multiple bones? Somehow I find that very questionable.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)or at some position other than hanging straight down. There's not enough height in a jail cell to leap to your death. Epstein was determined to kill himself and he did. He was facing a long sentence tantamount to spending the rest of his life in prison, not a very appealing prospect to someone who led the lifestyle of the rich and famous.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)This is very suspect.
His body position leads to the idea of suffocation from a low hang. His injuries scream violent hanging from height with enough force to jerk the body and snap the bones, or a violent strangulation from someone else, possibly with a thin ligature.
This was also his "second attempt". The first left him bruised? So apparently he kicked his own ass before he killed himself, sure, happens all the time.
triron
(22,001 posts)malaise
(268,968 posts)Were you there?
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)nt
Autumn
(45,066 posts)used the bunk and kneeled forward is how he supposedly killed himself.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)information that he was found kneeling.
Maine-i-acs
(1,499 posts)anyone?
Bueller?
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)And he'll find Clinton's emails stashed under the mattress.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Finally! Shit! How long does it take to find someones email for Chrissake?!
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Someone said it's normal to break bones when hanging yourself, but didn't Robin Williams hang himself from a doorknob? I don't remember anyone saying he had broken bones, but I could be mistaken.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)The height is what I find suspicious, though maybe he launched himself at the floor? Defenitely needs looked into very thoroughly and transparently considering everything else.
1. He's taken off suicide watch very quickly.
2. Gaurds leave him unattended for hours and fudge the records.
3. A fill in gaurd not part of the regular crew that night.
4. Against proper procedure, his cell mate is removed.
5. Broken bones in the neck that sound like the death was more violent than expected, like those of a strangulation.
Even if it was a suicide unintentionally made posible through prison incompetence, all the circumstances around it are like a stereotypical witness assasination you might find in a show or movie, even if each thing taken individualy can have a plausible explanation. It's no wonder conspiracy theories are running wild.
librechik
(30,674 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)The article did say they'll be looking at footage of the hallways and interviewing nearby inmates to see if someone might have entered the cell.
librechik
(30,674 posts)apparently we tolerate political assassinations in this country. Welcome to the gilded age.
Sure hope nothing happens to those tapes. NASA had a helluva time proving they went to the moon since they destroyed all the tapes.
But nobody is suspicious about that. They needed to record over those priceless artifacts because tapes are expensive.
harumph
(1,898 posts)(1) The hyoid bone fracture (actually) occurred when his [prior] cellmate attempted to strangle him - but wasn't
discovered.
(2) He strangled himself - alone in his cell from low height with a bed sheet
So... everything wrapped up - nothing to see here!
Of course, that would also be a very clever way to set the stage for the actual strangulation-murder that
was planned for later. It's like retroactively notarizing a document. It's a magician's trick - a
distraction.
librechik
(30,674 posts)it might have happened in the earlier attack. That's some serious shit. You don't just recover.
flotsam
(3,268 posts)Because he sure didn't commit suicide then. He made deals and bought the finest lifestyle available anywhere in the annals of american correctional history. There is no reason not to use that approach this time-and they say money can buy anything in prison.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)He didn't cut a deal fast enough.