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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWOW, just WOW! Trump "looking to make a deal" on Afghanistan..."if possible!" USA! USA! USA! USA!
@realDonaldTrump
Just completed a very good meeting on Afghanistan. Many on the opposite side of this 19 year war, and us, are looking to make a deal - if possible!
6:58 PM · Aug 16, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Link to tweet
Vinca
(50,271 posts)dchill
(38,489 posts)struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)marble falls
(57,081 posts)the Russian Army's side, arming it with stinger missiles to drop jets and helicopters, and recoil-less rifles to take out tanks and personnel carriers.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)marble falls
(57,081 posts)none of the terrorists that came to this county came from or through Afghanistan. At least the Taliban are Afghan and were the elected government before we showed up.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)marble falls
(57,081 posts)the US and W said it was "too late" and started a war several months later, after bin Laden left. Our ally Pakistan hid him for eight or so years, remember? Why aren't we occupying them?
You need to read some history.
Seriously, other than ObL, what terrorist hid out in Afghanistan when there were much more comfortable places to hide?
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)proves different. Whatever...I think it's a big mistake to leave yet another vacuum over there. I understand my position is unpopular here but I don't care because I think for myself.
marble falls
(57,081 posts)A NATION CHALLENGED: THE PRESIDENT; PRESIDENT REJECTS OFFER BY TALIBAN FOR NEGOTIATIONS
By Elisabeth Bumiller
Oct. 15, 2001
See the article in its original context from October 15, 2001, Section A, Page 1Buy Reprints
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President Bush forcefully rejected another offer from the Taliban today to begin talks about the surrender of Osama bin Laden if the United States stopped bombing Afghanistan.
''When I said no negotiations, I meant no negotiations,'' Mr. Bush told reporters upon landing on the South Lawn of the White House after returning from a weekend of intensive national security briefings at Camp David.
He added that he was not interested in discussing Mr. bin Laden's innocence or guilt. ''We know he's guilty,'' he said.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)that but I do as I was in NYC that day. I'm done talking about this subject for tonight.
marble falls
(57,081 posts)court hearings in this country before we extradite, why shouldn't Afghanistan????
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)former9thward
(32,005 posts)The U.S. had no choice and the invasion was supported by both parties.
EX500rider
(10,847 posts)They were no such thing.
"The totalitarian Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was established in 1996.."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)anyone that disagreed with them or that they saw as a threat to their rule. Their leader had a porn room in his villa, where it was said he had any young woman that he picked out, even if she was not willing (the alternative for her was death by a bullet through the brain).
There are Taliban that just don't want us or any other foreigners there against their will, but they are not the religious psychos that the US deposed.
What I would like is for the USA to negotiate a non military role there, but keep troops there. Afghanistan has vast mineral riches that the USA can help develop, as long as Afghanistan gets the lion's share of revenue to rebuild itself.
Mike_DuBois
(93 posts)You're lumping all brown people in central Asia.
The Muj were a response to the Soviet invasion. They were pretty much defeated by '82 and fled across the Durani line into Pakistan. In response to pleas by Pakistan and Muj, the US sent aid to three (or four) Muj groups (out of about seven, drawn along ethnic lines). The Stinger missile in particular helped turn tide of battle (Source: The Bear Went Over The Mountain).
Arabs began showing up towards the final years of the war. These "Arab Afghans" were held in some contempt by the Muj. Enter Bin Ladin. The one ground action he participated was a failed attack on a Soviet airbase. After that, he focused on developing a parallel logistics system to the one run by US. This was the nascent Al Qaeda.
Following the Soviet evacuation of Afghanistan, the different Muj groups fell to fighting among themselves. In 1994-ish a group of religious scholars and students organized in Kandahar to establish order in the lawlessness of the ongoing civil war. These students (what taliban means) went on to push the warring factions up into the northwest. Whre they put aside their differences and formed the Northern Alliance.
Taliban where subsequently defeated by the Northern Alliance supported by US special forces and air power.
So no, Bin Ladin was never on the US payroll. The Mujahadeen did not morph into the Taliban. The Taliban didn't exist until well after the Soviet withdrawal.
marble falls
(57,081 posts)the Russians and armed then with Stinger missiles and recoil-less rifles. If you can racism there, I'd like to know how. How racist is it to keep American troops there because they aren't able to rule themselves. Now that's some real chauvinism and racism for you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/26/news/what-about-the-talibans-stingers.html
What About the Taliban's Stingers?
By Joseph Fitchett, International Herald Tribune
Sept. 26, 2001
PARIS Taliban forces in Afghanistan are reported to have up to 100 shoulder-fired Stingers, the U.S.-made missile with the deadliest record against low-flying aircraft of any weapon since World War II.
In a terrorist's hands, a heat-seeking Stinger could bring down a low-flying airliner as it approached or left an airport, specialists said. But they described such risks as low for commercial flights operating in the United States, Europe and Asia.
No terrorist attack with a Stinger has been recorded in the 12 years since the end of the war in Afghanistan.
In the 1980s, the Reagan administration delivered several hundred Stingers to Afghan resistance groups, including the Taliban.
<snip>
https://www.globalresearch.ca/9-11-analysis-from-ronald-reagan-and-the-soviet-afghan-war-to-george-w-bush-and-september-11-2001/20958
9/11 ANALYSIS: From Ronald Reagan and the Soviet-Afghan War to George W Bush and September 11, 2001
By Prof Michel Chossudovsky
Global Research, May 20, 2017
9 September 2010
Theme: Terrorism
In-depth Report: AFGHANISTAN
[print]
This article first published in September 2010 summarizes earlier writings by the author on 9/11 and the role of Al Qaeda in US foreign policy. For further details see Michel Chossudovsky, Americas War on Terrorism, Global Research, 2005
The United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings
.The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school systems core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books,.., (Washington Post, 23 March 2002)
Advertisements, paid for from CIA funds, were placed in newspapers and newsletters around the world offering inducements and motivations to join the [Islamic] Jihad. (Pervez Hoodbhoy, Peace Research, 1 May 2005)
Bin Laden recruited 4,000 volunteers from his own country and developed close relations with the most radical mujahideen leaders. He also worked closely with the CIA,
Since September 11, [2001] CIA officials have been claiming they had no direct link to bin Laden. (Phil Gasper, International Socialist Review, November-December 2001)
Highlights
-Osama bin Laden, Americas bogyman, was recruited by the CIA in 1979 at the very outset of the US sponsored jihad. He was 22 years old and was trained in a CIA sponsored guerilla training camp.
-The architects of the covert operation in support of Islamic fundamentalism launched during the Reagan presidency played a key role in launching the Global War on Terrorism in the wake of 9/11.
President Ronald Reagan met the leaders of the Islamic Jihad at the White House in 1985
-Under the Reagan adminstration, US foreign policy evolved towards the unconditional support and endorsement of the Islamic freedom fighters. In todays World, the freedom fighters are labelled Islamic terrorists.
-In the Pashtun language, the word Taliban means Students, or graduates of the madrasahs (places of learning or coranic schools) set up by the Wahhabi missions from Saudi Arabia, with the support of the CIA.
-Education in Afghanistan in the years preceding the Soviet-Afghan war was largely secular. The US covert education destroyed secular education. The number of CIA sponsored religious schools (madrasahs) increased from 2,500 in 1980 to over 39,000.
The Soviet-Afghan war was part of a CIA covert agenda initiated during the Carter administration, which consisted in actively supporting and financing the Islamic brigades, later known as Al Qaeda.
The Pakistani military regime played from the outset in the late 1970s, a key role in the US sponsored military and intelligence operations in Afghanistan. In the post-Cold war era, this central role of Pakistan in US intelligence operations was extended to the broader Central Asia- Middle East region. From the outset of the Soviet Afghan war in 1979, Pakistan under military rule actively supported the Islamic brigades. In close liaison with the CIA, Pakistans military intelligence, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), became a powerful organization, a parallel government, wielding tremendous power and influence.
<snip>
My personal opinion is the Afghans are perfectly capable of sorting it all out themselves if all nations would quit dumping money and weapons on them.
Mike_DuBois
(93 posts)The Muj were Pashto, Uzbek, Tajiks, Hazara, etc.
Taliban were strictly Pashtun.
Madrassas the evolved into the Taliban were in Kandahar, not Pakistan.
The sponsored Afghan resistance did nkt evolve onto Al Qaeda. Al Qeada was an Arab group dedicated to establishing a parallel logistics network. Hence their name: The Base. Arab fighters were never sponsored by US/CIA because they were unreliable.
This is the problem with "pop culture history". One person puts out inaccurate news that seems common sense years ago, future authors reference it, and suddenly it becomes the very definition of Fake News.
As for Stinger missiles, if one of them is still functional I'd be shocked. How the TB got them, probably by overrunning Muj/N Alliance supply.
To review.
Taliban: Pashtun Afghans
Muj/Alliance: multi ethnic groups of Afghans
Al Qaeda: Arabs
EX500rider
(10,847 posts)Mullah Mohammad Omar founded the Taliban in September 1994 in his hometown of Kandahar.
So Reagan didn't give them squat because they did not exist yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
Global Research?
"Globalresearch is an "anti-Western" website that can't distinguish between serious analysis and discreditable junk and so publishes both. It's basically the moonbat equivalent to Infowars or WND.
While some of GlobalResearch's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian concerns, its view of science, economics, and geopolitics is conspiracist if something goes wrong, the Jews West didit! The site has long been a crank magnet: If you disagree with "Western" sources on 9/11, or HAARP, or vaccines, or H1N1, or climate change, or anything published by the "mainstream" media, then GlobalResearch is guaranteed to have a page you will love."
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
EX500rider
(10,847 posts)You are confusing the Mujahideen and the Taliban, not the same thing. The CIA had zero to do with the Taliban....besides dropping Hellfires on them.
Mike_DuBois
(93 posts)coti
(4,612 posts)Hugin
(33,140 posts)He's been lobbying for it all along.
Same result, though.
napi21
(45,806 posts)care how. I'd like us to get out too, but I believe the military advisors who say "if we leave now, the Taliban will take over again and all we fought for all those years will be lost and that Country will be like we were never there." For all of our people who gave their lives will have done so for NOTHING!
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)and a Nixonesque Peace with Honor will be the only face saving way out.
How much more blood and treasure do we need to waste in Afghanistan, in your opinion, to give the sacrifices of those who died "meaning"?
llmart
(15,539 posts)We have won nothing. We will win nothing. Many of our soldiers died or were maimed for nothing.
Someone will try to put a pretty face on what happened there and all that we "accomplished", but we will have accomplished nothing.
former9thward
(32,005 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,735 posts)Useless, pointless way to throw away American money and American lives. Back in 2001 when Dubya was starting this clusterfuck, I wanted to scream at him that it was an enormous mistake. If the late, great historian Barbara Tuchman was still alive, she could update her excellent book "The March of Folly" with the sad tale of how the U.S. got into a quagmire in Afghanistan.
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)Liberal In Texas
(13,552 posts)What a deal maker!
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)dalton99a
(81,485 posts)That I can tell you
James48
(4,436 posts)Maybe the Make a Deal trade will be Trump offering to buy Greenland, and tell the Taliban he will give them this whole big old Greenland Island -with more land area than all of Afghanistan, and no Pakistani neighbor to fight with; - in trade for the Taliban leaving Afghanistan and moving to Greenland instead.
Seriously- that is the deal being proposed.
Now it all makes sense.
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)We can expect it to be one of the best deals ever made in the history of mankind, judging by what we have seen so far in amazing deals.
"A really big...a deal that...deal of deals that has never been dealt...big winning again...everybody knows I...mine are the best deals so far...this one's big folks...making deals the best is what I do...some people...some people...you know those people who...they say this deal is this or that or not a good one... this great deal...fake people there saying fake things! They...are...fake phony types. Those fakers are faking again...this is the real deal and nobody has made one like mine...this deal will make you want to make America make it again again and again and again...go punch somebody I told you I don't like to show them...stars? They're seeing stars, [makes orangutan face]? Right here, folks, right here...they called me a rock star [laughs] Here I am! Biggest yet! We're going to grab them...just give 'em a good grab...done deal...more grabbing in Afterganiston soon...soon.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...this is the only time I've ever hoped that Trump wins the deal!
brush
(53,778 posts)presidency has not turned out well. NK talks have resulted in nothing. With Iran we pulled out of a functioning nuclear agreement and how Iran is starting up it's enrichment efforts again.
No thanks to any deals trump is involve in.
jpak
(41,758 posts)Trump complies.