Revealed: Wal*Mart Is Rolling Out AI Camera Scanners to Catch Self-Checkout Fraud in 1,000 Stores

[TheBlackAdder]

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One of the aspects of self-checkout is to save the company money, while there would be a slight uptick in fraud and user error. Well, Wal*Mart is changing that, and who knows, they could possibly shake down customers with the threat of criminal prosecution, the way many of those quick food retail stores were shaking down customers and employees by claiming they stole things and forcing confessions and payments by loss prevention members. They've apparently started to roll this out two years ago.

By using self-checkout, the customer opens themselves up for potential criminal prosecution, as the door watchers will stop these customers to challenge their receipts.

Here's the Business Insider article:

https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-tracks-theft-with-computer-vision-1000-stores-2019-6

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[larwdem]

1. people are dumb

The time I self checkout Is when they pay me for working their.
wtf is wrong with people?

[JI7]

5. because it's much faster usually . that's the only times i use self check out

[sinkingfeeling]

10. +1000

[USALiberal]

11. Hate ATMs also?? nt

[Moostache]

76. If my ATM made me physically WORK for the bank, yes!

Self-check out is taking the job of a clerk in the store and transferring the responsibilities DIRECTLY to the customer.

The ATM analogy would only be true if the bank required me to A) come to the branch office, B) bring cash or checks with me, C) endorse them and then D) TAKE THEM TO THE FUCKING VAULT!!!

Self-check out is an evil way for Wal-Mart heirs to make even more goddamn money while paying FEWER people starvation wages and putting them on public assistance for food and medical care.

Fuck the Walton family, EVERY. LAST. ONE.

Pay your employees and THEN count up your profits, not the other way around goddamn it!

[USALiberal]

79. So they deliver the groceries to your car to? Nt

[Moostache]

80. After I have bought them, they are MY groceries in the transaction...

That is again a different transaction in the ATM analogy.

ATM allows me to access MY money remotely and does not require any physical proximity to the retail bank branch to do so.

Self-checkout requires me to be in a directed location (special lines), to perform the tasks other employees of the business are doing right down the line, and then requires me to physically move the goods around their procedures and store equipment in order to set them up for the task of leaving the store and taking MY property, after the sale, with me...

Do you expect the ATM to take your money to the car for you? Or to shoot it out of the bill delivery area with enough force to find its way into your wallet? Somehow, I am pretty sure that the answer is no...

[USALiberal]

82. So scanning those items is a lot of work? Nt

[Moostache]

87. ANY unpaid work that benefits billionaires is too much work, period.

It also takes away another job opportunity in the community...when too many people acquiesce to the ownership's money grab in exchange for whatever they feel they are getting of value in return, the equation tilts further away from equity and more towards hoarding of profits.

These are not high paying jobs, but as second jobs or third jobs they can make the difference between having rent AND food AND medicine or choosing which to skip...or being able to get food on the table for a family in many cases, or having to skip meals to make it through...

My extra time 'saved' is not worth that to me. That 'convenience' is not enough justification for the owners to do that either.

Our economy works best when the system is concerned more with equitable distribution of the profits and losses and not just concentration of the profits in the hands of the owners. The way it is now, we (the people) ALL lose and the owners (Walton family for example) win more and more every hour of every day.

Now, if Wal-Mart were actually utilizing technology to allow them to increase employee pay and get fewer of their employees on state assistance, then I might be inclined to reconsider my position...

[JCMach1]

14. I boycott these everywhere I find them

I give most McDonald's a pass completely because of this. Kroger is even worse than Walmart with them.

I hate self-checkout with a passion.

[llmart]

18. Next up...

It started with bagging your own groceries, then taking them out to your car, then checking them out yourself, then putting the carts in a carrel in the parking lot. I say the next thing is they are going to ask us to go in the back and bring out the boxes and stock the shelves too.

They told us this would "keep prices down" for consumers. Did anyone really believe that the customer doing all the work was going to lower prices?

I do checkout my own groceries because I only buy in small quantities and it is quicker, but don't pass it off as how we're going to save money by having the customer do all the work.

Now the Krogers by me is going to charge for getting cash back.

[Talitha]

23. Remember the Self Serve pumps at the gas stations?

The idea was to offer gas for a few cents cheaper per gallon
if you pumped it yourself, but now it's the norm.

[tinymontgomery]

45. You're right about gas prices

You're right about gas prices. In NJ you are not allowed to pump your own.
Prices are very close to what I pay in SC. I'm so used to pumping my own that
when I go through Jersey I always start getting out of the car till the person
tells me to stay in the car.

[jberryhill]

28. You can save a lot of money with self checkout

Don’t like the price of an item? Find a lower priced item and switch the UPC labels.

Consider it a “consumer price veto”.

[llmart]

32. I'm a little too ethical for that trick.

But I wonder how many people do that?

[hunter]

61. In Australia everything put on the self-checkout scale became carrots.

The practice of "swiping everything as carrots" happens when shoppers take expensive items - such as grapes or cherries - but tell the self-service checkout they're weighing cheaper carrots, onions, or potatoes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-38919678

[Quixote1818]

21. If I only have a few things and need to get through fast I absolutely love self checkout!

It also cuts down the other lines for people who have a lot of stuff going through the regular checkout stands.

[GoCubsGo]

43. Sometimes, one is not given a choice.

I make a quick Kroger run early yesterday morning. There were no cashier checkouts open. Just self-serves.

BTW, before you call other people "dumb", you might want to consider learning the correct usage of their/there/they're.

[rzemanfl]

54. I will be back after I wash some socks. n/t

[SlogginThroughIt]

60. That time you call other people dumb

That time you call other people dumb and use the word their in place of there.

[GusBob]

63. *there*

Signed, dumb

[SeattleVet]

2. I'll start using a self-checkout...

when they start to give me the employee discount.

[USALiberal]

12. Hate ATMs also?? nt

[Polybius]

22. There's a big difference

I don't have to weigh my own onions at the ATM. All you do is take the cash or deposit it. Self checkout is much more work. Not a fan of bagging my own stuff either and inserting the 15 singles I might have one at a time.

Now if you can deposit the way an ATM works by inserting lots of cash at once, that would be a great help.

[SeattleVet]

25. Not the same at all...

the ATM's that I usually use are in my Credit Union's local neighborhood financial service centers, which would not be there (employing several local people) if they had to have the same type of vault, security, etc. that they have at their main branches. These are full-service for opening accounts, doing loans, Notary services, etc...everything short of having to have a vault.

[John Fante]

29. On the rare occasions I use an ATM, it's almost always

at a time when the bank is closed.

[Farmer-Rick]

89. Yes, I hate ATMs

I hate ATMs and never use them. They said ATMs would make banking cheaper for customers. It never did. And they want to charge me for taking out my own money whenever I use one of those stupid machines.

ATMs are a big con to move the bank's work onto customers.

I refuse to use them and never will.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. I read recently that self checkout fraud is huge.

Probably more than the supposed savings in not hiring humans to do the checkout.

Me, I don't do self checkout. If I did, I'd be honest and pay for everything. But that's just me.

[Moostache]

77. I hope the fraud is 10X the salary of paying an employee to do it...

I hope they lose their ass on every fucking one of them...

I utterly refuse to use self-check out at a grocery or department store, period. I have left full carts of groceries at the check out line when I found that the store had ZERO human checkers working after 9 PM. I then went to another store that was running 24/7 hours WITH a checkout line and gave them my business instead. I do NOT work for free and I do NOT take another person's job from the system to save 15 seconds either.

This capitalist system only works (and even THEN only BARELY works) when there are appropriate limitations and regulations placed on it. Self-check out is the evil of capitalism on full display. Getting people to literally work for free is a capitalist's wet fucking dream. Not a chance in hell...

Fuck the Walton family and their abhorrent greed. The money they "save" is not going to reducing prices, or increasing employee pay rates or anything other than more cash to their fucking bottom line. If anyone believes otherwise, I have a lovely bridge in New York to sell you...

[OnDoutside]

4. I self check out all the time. Most of the time it's a big time saver.

And then I usually pay with contactless card payment.

[JCMach1]

15. It only saves time if you have a 1 or 2 items and ONLY

Because they don't hire enough cashiers now.

There are always ungodly lines where I live...

[Ms. Toad]

56. That's not accurate.

It saves me a significant amount of time regardless of how many items I have. There are only two exceptions: if I have something that requires someone with an override key - and if I'm smart about it by scanning that item first, it is still faster - at least 20%; and if I have enough items they back the belt up - and then it's about a tie.

Cashiers are, by and large, pretty lackadaisical - so I scan faster than they do. Many of them don't know the produce I've picked up so I can pick it out of the look-up list much more quickly. For the scanners I'm willing to use, I have the keystroke sequence memorized so I don't have to wait for each entry to clear before I enter the next. (I am only willing to use the scanners with the belt attached - I refuse to use the ones that accuse me of stealing stuff every time I rearrange things in my bag.)

[JCMach1]

69. Just not going there...! Misscans every single time... last time I did it... 3 times I had to call

for an override.


Totally unacceptable customer service...

[Ms. Toad]

75. Our experiences definitely differ.

I've never had a misscan - or if I have it is so infrequent that I don't specifically remember it. The only times I have anyone come over are: gift cards, alcohol, and accusations of stealing (which is why I refuse to use anything other than a belt - the weight based ones call assistance any time you rearrange anything in the bag since that is how they detect items placed in a bag but not scanned - i.e. accuse you of stealing).

I regularly self-scan scan 20-40 items and have to call someone over no more frequently than 1 in 10 trips.

[JCMach1]

83. My two biggest pet peeves (in my dotage I guess) are self service cashiers and roundabouts

all clearly the spawn of Satan...

[Ms. Toad]

84. On roundabouts

we have common ground.

[JCMach1]

86. 3, 3 pet peeves... I left off front loading washing machines...

Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2019, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)

With the last pit of hell full of European frontloading washer dryer combo machines!

I am fully aware I am slowly becoming a crotchety old man...

[Ms. Toad]

88. I love my front loading washing machine

But I agree as to frontloading washer dryer combo machines.

We switched from top loading to front loading - it is so much more efficient both as to water usage and soap that I'll live with reaching down to grab stuff out. We were also forewarned about the mildew issue & got one that has an easy stop that keeps the front door slightly open - a few years in, no mildew.

[JCMach1]

93. My Amana Top loader is the schiz!

I had those horrible, horrible European front loaders in Dubai (I went through 3 of them) and vowed never again!

[Farmer-Rick]

92. You do realize that when stores go to all scanners they won't be time savers anymore.

There will be lines at the self checkout too. As there is during Christmas and busy store times.

Self checkout is never quick for me because I pay with a check and that needs someone to approve it. And there is always a problem with one or more product prices or scanning a product that won't take. And then if you buy wine or beer there is another slow down for someone to check your age on your ID.

And then the scanner locks up. I actually saw a scanner with smoke coming out of it as an elderly woman looked on horrified while clutched her groceries.

[canetoad]

6. Biggest scam is

"Do you want to print a receipt."

Of course I do. It's my proof of purchase if I need to return an item; it's my passport to avoiding anyone who accuses me of stealing.

[TheBlackAdder]

39. And you'll need it if the Wal*Mart inspector stops you when you try to leave the building.

[lame54]

70. How is this a scam...

Many people who go through the actual manned registers ask the checker to toss their receipts

Gas pumps ask this all the time

[JI7]

7. how is this different from before ? don't they already have cameras and if they see you take

something they will stop you .

[TheBlackAdder]

40. It's software that flags whether or not you are stealing, not people. Wal*Mart says it saves staff.

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ie. not hiring someone, for a system that works 24x7.

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[TSIAS]

8. Good thing I never shop at WalMart

You can bet this will be used to unfairly target black and brown people.

[JCMach1]

16. Kroger, McDonald's choose your poison they are everywhere

[TheBlackAdder]

42. You know it! Over 4,700 stores and only 1,000 get it. These inspectors are in lower-income areas.

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2019, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

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There are six Wal*Marts near me, and only one of them have door inspectors. Guess where?

That means, when the cops are called, it will predominately impact poorer and minority families.


That also means, people near that one store should move their shopping to one of the others.

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[EX500rider]

51. They will roll it out in stores with the highest stock loss which makes sense. nt

[Ligyron]

64. There's one around me that has a cop shop.

Yup, a sherriff sub station right in the damn Walmart itself.

I hear they have a hold tank mini jail in there too. There are always sherriff cars parked by the entrance and I once in awhile I see them grabbing someone headed to their car.

They never check my cart as I head out but then I'm white. I should mention a significant number of AA folks shop there.

There's a McDonald's inside too and sometimes I'll grab a bite before shopping so I don't get carried away buying food I don't really need.

[EX500rider]

49. It will be used to "unfairly" target shoplifters of all colors. nt

[nuxvomica]

9. I used the self-checkout at Walmart once

After the machine took two twenties, it refused a third, shooting it out over four feet. I tried different twenties with the same result. Apparently, there was a $40 limit on cash transactions, even though the station was marked as accepting cash. That was the last time I shopped at Walmart. The place gives me the creeps anyway.

[Jersey Devil]

13. I don't get it. What's the problem?

You expect them not to watch people when they self checkout? As long as you pay for everything in your cart, how are you subjecting yourself to any risk if you are asked for your receipt at the door? I use self checkout all the time. It is quick and easy.

[JCMach1]

17. Well, suppose you miss an item unintentionally?

Trust, it can happen after a long shift and now the want you to do cashier work.

Fuck these automated POS!

[Polybius]

24. It's possible but somewhat unlikely

It shows the item and price on the monitor as you scan. Still possible though if you're tired. I can almost guarantee "I missed it by mistake" would hold up with the store manager or court.

[jberryhill]

27. So the argument against is that you should get stuff for free?

[Chiyo-chichi]

73. on a different track...

What are your thoughts, counselor, on the legality of receipt checks at retail establishment exits?
I maintain that they are voluntary.
I generally have somewhere else to be... and once I've paid for my items, they are my property, and no one affiliated with the store has any right to look at them unless they have seen me conceal an item and kept me in sight... which I know I didn't do because I have never shoplifted and don't plan to start. I think I'm within my rights to say "no, thanks" and keep on going. Whether i used self-check or not shouldn't matter.

[jberryhill]

85. You want fries with that?

I do not know your unidentified state's laws.

Several years ago, there was an online saga posted about receipt checking on DU. I posted quite a bit about it at that time. Long story short - the question is under-determined. If the store has a clearly posted policy governing behavior on their property and which does not conflict with state laws then, yes, it is likely that you have agreed to the posted terms by shopping there.

Frankly, the time and inconvenience of researching this question and providing a legal opinion to you far outweighs any cumulative time and inconvenience you are likely to encounter by simply showing your receipt.


Here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1745824

Enjoy.

Personally, I have not the time or emotional energy to invest in making some "point" to underpaid workers at retail establishments who've been told "do this or get fired".

[Quixote1818]

30. The law is quite clear on these kinds of things. Plausible deniability from human error

Replacing employees with self-checkout lanes creates a legal complication for grocery stores. It’s a lot harder to prove shoplifting if they can’t prove intent. A scheme to steal is pretty obvious if you’re caught shoving an item down your pants, but if you “forget” to scan something, that unintentional theft isn’t a crime. There will always be enough reasonable doubt that you simply got distracted and forgot or put the wrong code it by accident.

[roamer65]

38. Definitely.

If you are scanning away and the scanner misses it and you don’t notice it, it’s not your fault.

[elocs]

19. I use self checkout whenever possible, especially at Walmart.

Yes, I shop at Walmart because guess what DU?
Some of us are poor and need to get the best bang for our buck that we can.
But I've found far too many clerks at Walmart are slower than self checkout and their lines are longer. And as a schizoid, the less required interaction with people I need to have, the better.

[JCMach1]

26. They don't hire proper amount of cashiers because of those

Machines... I will continue to refuse using them and not shop at places that force you. Just nonono

[LisaL]

33. They hardly have any cashiers at the one close to me.

So there is pretty much no choice but to use self-checkout.

[MicaelS]

36. That is me exactly.

I am poor, I shop at Walmart, and do not give a fuck who knows it. And I use self-checkout all the time too.

[elocs]

44. I wonder how many DUers are actually poor,

who are not in food jeopardy so they don't need to stand in line at food pantries?
Too often for those of us who are poor, when we read of someone who claims they would never set foot in a Walmart it comes across as holier-than-thou and self-righteous because we must do what we have to do just to survive.

[MicaelS]

46. You are absolutely right.

When you plenty of disposable income you can afford to be very choosy. When you're poor, you buy what is cheapest, no matter who sells it. That means Walmart, Dollar Stores or whatever.

[lame54]

71. So Walmart is off limits now?...

Can't criticize them for their horrible horrible horrible horrible business practices?

You know - the ones that allow them to undercut the competition by offering artificially low prices

We just have to take it?

[elocs]

72. It should be possible to do that without feeling smug

and self righteous with the, "well I NEVER set foot in a Walmart" which only serves to make those who have no choice feel small.
If this never occurred to you before, it should now.

[lame54]

74. Thanks for your example of smug

[Hotler]

20. Doesn't bother me.

I never shop at Walmart. I do shop Kroger (King Soopers here) and hate every minute of it. They have cameras at the self checkouts and I flip them off every time.

[cwydro]

34. You "flip off" cameras? Seriously?

[Hotler]

55. The camaras at the self check out is about 12 inch above my eyes..

right in front of my face. Basically I'm flipping myself off because that what shows on the screen. fuck those guys. They have a right to take my picture, I have a right (for now) to flip them off. What are they going to do, call a cop?

[Moostache]

81. I have done the exact same thing...

My wife and I argue about using self-check out all the time, but she wants to do it instead of waiting in lines that the companies INTENTIONALLY allow to get longer than a store that CARES would do...anywho, long story short, she self-checks and I flip off the cameras just because....reasons!

If some corporate hack is going to reviewing these useless tapes in the future, I want them to know just how I feel about it too.

I may start using these things though....only when my hands are wet from handling condensation soaked produce and then only if I can find a very large, glass bottle of spaghetti sauce to 'accidentally' have a slip...darn the luck, a 15-minute clean-up for the staff instead of paying them to check my food, the places like Wal-Mart - that are fucking their employees AND the communities they set up their indentured servitude stores - can instead pay someone to clean up the mess I made 'accidentally' in their checking lines.

I might be able to do a better job if they were paying me to do so...but we'll never know.

[Captain Stern]

91. Right on! Stick it to the man!

But seriously, it seems like you're not willing to go through the inconvenience of actually not using the self checkouts......but you feel you're making a statement by giving a camera the finger.

To each, his own, I guess.

[Iggo]

31. "AI"

Scary !!!

[NightWatcher]

35. With all the shootings, you wanna get out of Wally World as fast as you can.

I accomplish this by not even pulling into the parking lot to begin with.

[EX500rider]

50. With 5,362 retails units in the US, statistically you will be in more danger driving there. nt

[wishstar]

37. The scanners are used in cashier lines too, not just self-checker lines

Article says scanners are for all checkouts since cashiers are missing items too so technology is intended to catch their oversights, not just self-checkers

[TheBlackAdder]

68. At times Wal*Mart has been arresting both cashiers and shopper claiming they are in cahoots.

[cwydro]

41. Well, if you steal, you deserve to be caught.

Throughout history, thieves are the lowest of the low.

[JimGinPA]

47. Ha! I Thought They Already Did

If I shop there I always use the self checkout. I have always assumed I was on camera.

[mia]

48. Catch the thieves wherever they prey.

We all pay higher prices because of retail theft.
I've been using self-checkout whenever I can, especially at Home Depot.

[democratisphere]

52. Can't wait for the AI scanner to f'up and accuse an innocent

customer of wrong doing.

[greymattermom]

53. My son works for the company that does the user interface design for Kroger

but I hate the self checkout and switched to Publix. Yep, I know about them. Still, I prefer a person. Their prices are higher so I stick to the BOGO deals.

[TheFarseer]

57. I have unintentionally shoplifted before

A can rolled under the car seat which I had placed in the cart and we didn’t notice til we got out to the car. I would hate to think my life would be fucked because of an honest mistake.

[Thunderbeast]

66. What could go wrong?

Ever see "My Cousin Vinnie"?

[Moostache]

78. Did you say 'Utes"? (n/t)

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

58. Our local Walmart has installed gates to prevent shoppers from leaving the store without

having their baskets verified by the greeter (who is now an enforcer). One employee told me that the shrinkage in this store -- which is in a poor community -- is exceptionally high, so the company is taking extraordinary measures to try to slow it down. When I asked when the guard towers were going to be put up, he didn't laugh.

[Luciferous]

59. I don't shop at Walmart, and Target has plenty of cashiers working so unless I'm

only getting a couple of items I don't do self-checkout there.

[radius777]

62. People should steal, as payment for free work.

I'm being facetious here - but if you don't want to hire cashiers and expect customers to do complex functions at a self-checkout machine, then expect people - out of resentment - to not care if they didnt checkout perfectly, and just consider the unscanned items to be 'bonus' for their frustration and free work.

ATM's are not the same thing as self-checkout. ATM's are a mainly a single function (dispensing money) machine that people use after bank hours or when the bank is busy; it is an added convenience to the customer.

Self-checkout, OTOH, is a complex function machine, that can quickly become frustrating, and is designed to replace workers and force customers to work for free, without much/any savings.

We can't stop automation, but it should be implemented where it makes sense, like simple repetitive functions - not complex interactions (like self-checkout) where a human is needed.

[LisaL]

65. There is not that much complex about it.

You scan the items and place them in the bag. Although the thing is always rushing you with demanding you scan the items and put them in the bagging area.

[Niagara]

67. WalMart cashiers can make mistakes and overcharge for items

It happened to me a long time ago. I purchased a bakery made angel food cake that was priced at $3.60. My total at checkout should have been about $28 and my total ended up being about $60.

I doubled checked my receipt and noticed the cashier rang up the bakery made angel food cake for $36. I went to the customer service desk and said "If this angel food cake really is $36, I don't want it." The lady at the customer service desk joked that it must have been out of gold and promptly refunded the $32.40 that I was overcharged.

It's a two-way street. We as costumers to any store, have to be aware of what we're being charged and prices of items as well.

[LiberalFighter]

90. It must be because a lot of their "customers" shoplift.

Maybe it will drive down the number of their customers.

[Eugene]

94. Another reason why I choose a human clerk whenever I can.