Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

dajoki

(10,678 posts)
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 09:22 AM Aug 2019

The supreme court's pro-gun radicalism puts us all in the crosshairs

The supreme court's pro-gun radicalism puts us all in the crosshairs
The court has made it harder for Americans to forge a sensible political solution to a horrific national problem
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/20/the-supreme-courts-pro-gun-radicalism-puts-us-all-in-the-crosshairs?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVUy0xOTA4MjA%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUS&CMP=GTUS_email

<<snip>>

From 1791 until 2008, the supreme court refused to touch gun-control laws. True, the second amendment spoke of a right to bear arms, but it did so in conditional fashion: “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” The roundabout formulation was striking: the constitution does not limit other rights – such as freedom of speech – to any particular purpose or function.

Attentive to this language, the supreme court long interpreted the second amendment as protecting a collective right to participate in a militia. In 1939, the court unanimously upheld a congressional ban on sawed-off shotguns, arguing such weapons lack “any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia.”

All that changed in 2008 with the court’s 5-4 decision in District of Columbia v Heller. In striking down a Washington DC ban on handguns in the home, the court’s conservative majority held for the first time that the second amendment “protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.”

Relying on an “originalist” reading of the constitution, Justice Scalia insisted the supreme court had essentially misread the Second Amendment for 200 years. Originalists claim that reading the Constitution as understood at the time of its adoption makes a judge a more faithful interpreter of constitutional text, although in reality this approach guarantees no such thing. To the contrary, it permits judges to cherry-pick history to reach virtually any outcome, or, as in this case, to radically overturn decades of received wisdom in the name of constitutional “fidelity.”

<<snip>>

No less troubling is an opinion that Justice Kavanaugh wrote during his tenure as a judge on DC’s federal appellate court. Applying the Court’s reasoning in Heller, Kavanaugh argued that any ban on semiautomatic rifles should be struck down as unconstitutional.

That bears repeating: A ban on semiautomatic weapons would be unconstitutional. Using “text, history, and tradition” as his guides, Kavanaugh concluded that semiautomatic rifles “have not traditionally been banned and are in common use by law-abiding citizens for self-defense in the home, hunting, and other lawful uses.”

Why does the fact that we’ve permitted such weapons in the past mean that we are constitutionally tethered to them now? The logic again follows straight from the disastrous Heller ruling.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
1. I think they answered it with Miller...
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 09:52 AM
Aug 2019

Weapons related to efficiency of a militia are protected (not a word about membership in such an entity).

Although I think Heller had something to say about them.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
2. But AR-15s WOULD be the exact type of weapon..
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 09:57 AM
Aug 2019

Used the the militia since they are a civilian version of the M-16 / M-4 class of weapons. So my interpretation is the would be legal under Miller. But I am no lawyer.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
5. Miller and Heller set different and somewhat conflicting standards for common use
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 11:21 AM
Aug 2019

Both hold that items that are in common use are protected by the 2nd. They differ in their interpretation of common use; Miller frames it in a military equipment context, Heller in a civilian context.

It is tempting to try to use the Miller interpretation and say the AR-15 isn't protected as the military doesn't actually use it. This is a bad argument as it would make actual M-16s protected and reopen them for sale - which is a really bad idea.

The weapon of war argument is also potentially counter productive as based on Heller / Miller. arguing that the AR-15 is the same as the M-16 would make it protected under both Heller and Miller. If it is the same as an M16 it counts as military equipment under Miller, and the civilian sales numbers makes it common use under Heller.

We want to avoid Miller, it has to potential to take dangerous weapons off the street - only to flood our country with even more dangerous weapons.

It is very important for us to understand the legal history and precedent on this, as the framework in place runs contrary to common sense in many ways. Our solutions need to take this into account.

Going after magazine capacity (rather than restrictions on the guns themselves) would be a much more straight forward approach and would be more likely to sidestep the Miller/Heller gun protections.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
8. I've learned a lot recently
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 02:37 PM
Aug 2019

Both through debating with family over beers on our patio and just trying to figure out a viable roadmap to reasonable regulations. The legal and constitutional landscape on this is way more complicated than I had ever realized

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
3. Clearly, gunners hope so -- they need their assault style weapons to enjoy life. But, I'd be
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 10:53 AM
Aug 2019

surprised if Supreme Court overruled a carefully written assault style weapon ban.

spanone

(135,829 posts)
7. there was a republican lawmaker on m$nbc this am who was opposed to banning 100 round clips
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 02:34 PM
Aug 2019

Called it a slippery slope (same shit different day)

struggle4progress

(118,281 posts)
9. Will he allow folk to carry loaded assault rifles with 100 round clips in his legislative chambers?
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 06:13 PM
Aug 2019

If not, he's just another hypocritical blowhard

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The supreme court's pro-g...