Regarding the "gig economy" that is so much in the news.

[guillaumeb]

When I read what the US corporate media says about the gig economy, what is emphasized is that these gig workers are in control of their own time.

What is presented is that these poorly paid gig workers can work when they want, and get paid multiple times in a day.

Can someone explain to me how this model differs from the day labor model, where the workers wait in a hiring hall and hope that they are hired to work?

In each model, there is no security, no real advancement, and no benefits. Plus, the workers are non-union, and the very nature of the business makes it difficult to unionize.

In my view, these gig workers are no better off than the vast majority of Amazon and WalMart workers. No security, no living wage.

All part of the race to the bottom for wages and benefits even as the pundit class and US corporate media insist that the economy is doing well.

[gratuitous]

1. You seem to have a good grasp on what the gig economy is

It's also creeping into other areas of the labor market. One of underlying assumptions (not spoken of) is that workers in these jobs are 100% interchangeable. There's no recognition of expertise or experience, no accounting made for ability or conscientiousness. Anyone can do these jobs equally well, and there's no difference across the work force. As you note, without any continuity, job security, or ability to affect wages through performance, workers in these jobs offer the bare minimum effort. Then the employer gets all bent out of shape, hollering that you just can't get good help anymore.

[guillaumeb]

3. Thank you for the excellent addition to the thread.

The gig economy is a race to the bottom. And it is sold as being good for the workers because they can schedule their work to allow for education and family. But what is never said is that no one can support a family or be a student on these wages.

The same goes for all the stories about the great economy, which require one to ignore the fact that total indebtedness is at an all time high. This economy is debt fueled, and requires very low interest rates to make borrowing easier. Thus Trump's hysteria that the Fed has not lowered rates to basically zero.

[LisaM]

7. Yep.

I absolutely cannot rectify the disconnect between people who vote for a $15 minimum wage - which has affected small businesses - and then don't support those businesses AND use the gig economy for things like food delivery, which hurt the bottom line of restaurants.

https://table.skift.com/2019/02/28/smaller-restaurants-grapple-with-the-burden-of-delivery-service-fees/

I do not use Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, Shipt, PostMates, GrubHub, or any of these services. Yes, they probably would make things a little more convenient for me, but I don't think that collectively these are a good thing.

[guillaumeb]

15. So all wqorkers suffer,

and a few will praise the convenience, but either not see or not care that this convenience is costly to workers.

[LisaM]

20. We have a couple of places that deliver for themselvs - I patronize them.

In general, I don't order takeout - I go to restaurants in person and leave good tips.

I also am willing to pay a little more for things like books so I can support local - and independent - businesses. Even shopping locally at a big place like Barnes & Noble puts more money into the local economy than if you order online.

These contracted delivery services are bad news. Our complex does not allow access to Amazon workers, period, because, unlike UPS, FedEx, and the Post Office, they will not guarantee the same person (or couple of people) doing the deliveries that the building can vet for access. It's a different person every time, so they have to deliver to the office (which spends half its day processing the endless stream of Amazon Prime packages people in our apartment seem to order). Not too long ago, I caught one of the green-vested contracted Amazon worker trying to tailgate someone into our lobby. Not good.

[emmaverybo]

2. It doesn't differ much, but day laborers are hard-pressed to get regular work. Although I believe

steady working gig workers should have protections and be offered benefits, they do very much like the flexible hours. Uber driver was saying yesterday when he worked in retail he was forced to work weekends and to take a schedule that varied sometimes week to week, not that he chose to vary.

Day laborers have to hang out all day often or line up and hope they get some work. Sometimes the work is only a few hours. And they really get underpaid.

Task rabbits get paid better! They actually set their own rates.

[guillaumeb]

4. The rates are set by demand. Not the drivers.

And there is much evidence out there that these potential rates are rarely achieved.

I know 2 Amazon drivers, and they bid on 3-4 hour shifts. Both complain that they cannot actually get the work done in the allotted time, but they only get paid for the time allotted, not the actual time. Each one works 5-7 days a week.

Flexible hours are a poor alternative to a guaranteed position with a steady income.

[emmaverybo]

25. Thanks for the info. Of course you are right, especially for those without another steady job

with benefits. Amazon is great, but not for workers. It literally drove one of its floor warehouse workers to early heart attack. Very few breaks, none unless scheduled even for bathroom, timed
as workers run to select merchandise, just Dickensian. I am not arguing that the companies are fair. I argue to make gig jobs work for workers. They need to be real “jobs.”

[guillaumeb]

28. Well explained, Thank you.

And yes, they are Dickensian.

[Hekate]

5. "Gig economy" is just a cute name for "day labor." There is nothing cute about it.

When you gig a squid, that squid is on a big spear with no way off. Just think on that.

[guillaumeb]

6. Exactly.

And day labor has always been the lowest paid form of labor.

And any flexibility in hours is an illusion. There is no guarantee.

[DBoon]

13. some very brutal labor struggles came about to organize day laborers

check into the history of the ILWU and what they went through to organize longshoremen.

[guillaumeb]

19. And very few people know any labor history.

And how workers literally died in the many struggles with greedy capitalists.

[Hekate]

30. Yes, I know. People fought, bled, and sometimes died to form unions...

Unionism is just about dead these past several decades (some say since Reagan), and it all has to be done again.

[Orangepeel]

8. Generally the same, but you need your own car

And wait there instead of a hiring hall

[guillaumeb]

10. True.

And using a vehicle means that the vehicle depreciates faster due to higher mileage and associated repair costs.

[DBoon]

12. meaning unlike day laborers

gig workers do not congregate hence reducing opportunities to organize

[lame54]

9. A great second job

[guillaumeb]

11. But for many, it is a combination of "second jobs" that cannot replace an actual job.

[lame54]

14. But for others it works

[guillaumeb]

17. Do you see it is a viable option for workers in general?

And do you see that these low wage, no guarantee jobs simply cannot work for the vast majority?

[lame54]

21. I never argued for that...

I know several people who have a steady job with insurance and drive uber where they can pick up a few extra bucks when they need or feel like

They can also say i don't feel like working tonight and not fear losing that job

As I said - it's a great second job

[guillaumeb]

22. I understand, but Americans need actual living wage jobs.

Not a series of poorly paid gigs.

[lame54]

24. But...

That's been a problem for decades
Long before these gig jobs
They are only playing by the same rules that have allowed corps to get away with screwing their employees for a long long time

There is the root of your problem

[Flaleftist]

23. For those desperate for money and willing to sacrifice family and personal time.

It's unfortunate so many people's first jobs pay so little.

[Hoyt]

16. There are lots of happy "gig workers" -- Musicians, business consultants, Locum Tenens MDs,

nurses, seconded attorneys, seasonal workers, teachers working other jobs in summer, actors, IT staffing for companies that can't justify full-time people, etc. And many of them like it, prefer it actually.

For some people, who want a full-time job for one employer, it's often a step toward full-time work.

I get how insecure the work you are describing is, but I'm not sure that is reflective of the gig economy as a whole. Admittedly, if one doesn't have a lot of skills, it might well be like day laborers, except you don't have to stand on a corner looking for work.

I think job training, an increased minimum wage, etc., is going to help those workers get into better situations.

[guillaumeb]

18. Most of the categories you mentioned

are gig workers in a different sense.

By the definition that you proposed, any independent business person could be called a gig worker.

But in general, gig workers are poorly paid, and have no guarantee of income. Which is why so many musicians have second jobs.

[mopinko]

26. they dont really work when they want, either.

i have a tenant that does grubhub and ubereats.
they sign up ahead of time, and if they miss a shift, or take a vacation, they get shut out for a day or more.

i think that ubereats does the same as doordash was doing. they pay by the mile, and they rarely see tips. they dont show them the full tickets, so they dont know if they was a tip. doordash was only passing on the amount that exceeded the guaranteed $8/delivery fee.

it was only after workers got together online, and outed them that they started passing on the whole tip.

[guillaumeb]

29. Stealing from the workers.

In the grand tradition of predatory capitalists everywhere.

[greymattermom]

27. I've seen this with my children.

They often like hourly W2 jobs better than salaried jobs because many of the salaried jobs expect 60 hours a week or more, and the hourly rate is actually less in the salaried job.

[guillaumeb]

31. An exception.

But as your children get older, they may prefer the security of a guaranteed income.

[RainCaster]

32. And now for a Very Different Viewpoint

Years ago, I felt the same way y'all do. I thought that Uber/Lyft/Whatever was getting screwed by the man, and I would not have anything to to do it. Then my employer (an old-school very large company) fell on hard times and asked those of us who travel a lot to please use Uber as an experiment in dropping our expenses. So I did. In my own way, I wanted to find out more about the people who did this, so I asked them. It turns out that most of these Uber people did this as a side job. The rest of the time, they are doing many other things. They are school teachers, post-grad students, start-up entrepreneurs, book store owners, and very few saw this as a full-time gig. Those who did approach this as a full time thing were extremely happy with their place in life, and loved how they could take off in the middle of the day to watch their kids concert, or attend a soccer game, or whatever.

So this year, I was laid off by another large company, even bigger than my previous firm. Bad idea working for Asian firms- they don't give a damn about anyone who is not a citizen of the Mother Country. Lesson learned. I saw this from a long way off, and spent a large portion of my time there thinking about how I could do this job as a contract business. This was a new idea- how to "Uber-ize" a whole new segment of the high tech industry. Unlike Uber/Lyft, my firm looks to skim the cream off the top, while those firms try to get a smaller amount of a bigger market. I am promoting my business as a part of "the gig economy" where I can offer smaller companies (almost) the same level of services they received with full time staff, but a much smaller budget. The market is much smaller- maybe 30 firms around the world- but it's enough for me and my ambitions.

Ask me in a year how it turns out.

[guillaumeb]

34. Uber and every other gig economy position

is not a replacement for a full time job with benefits. Uber was invented to make the inventor rich by attacking taxi companies. And the model has no need of expensive vehicles, or garages, or employees because the vast majority of Uber people are contract employees. All the burden/cost associated with driving is on the contract employees.

You are a small business owner. A different category.

[Turbineguy]

33. In theory, you can always say "no".

In theory you can take a vacation whenever you want.

You can however show up for work in your pj's without having hit the splash locker or shaved.

[guillaumeb]

35. Well said.

And in theory, one can choose exactly the hours that fit in a schedule, as long as there are customers at those times.