Antifa: Real or Nah?

[Baltimike]

asking for a friend...

[Merlot]

1. Call them what they are: anti-facists.

Yes, they're real, and they fight the good fight.

[easttexaslefty]

29. Yep

[Downtown Hound]

2. Definitely real

Anybody who think they're some modern Cointelpro operation designed to make the left look bad needs to get out from behind their computer screen more often.

[rampartc]

8. if they are real i'd like to learn more from a reliable source

if you know a web address or any contact information I would be much obliged.

[Downtown Hound]

15. These people do not post their contact info

There's a reason they wear masks at protests. What they do is dangerous and often illegal. If you're looking for generic, general info, then these sites may have some useful info. They are not necessarily Antifa, but they often do feature news related to them.

https://unicornriot.ninja/

https://sub.media/

https://itsgoingdown.org

Or this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Antifa-Antifascist-Handbook-Mark-Bray-ebook/dp/B0718VC8GV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=23IWWWBKL6TFB&keywords=antifa&qid=1566506269&s=books&sprefix=antifa%2Caps%2C197&sr=1-1

But if you're looking to network with them. be prepared, you're in for a journey. Best advice I can give is show up at a protest where there they're at and join them. Remember that Antifa ultimately just means, "anti-fascist." If you're anti-fascist, then you are already Antifa. You're just looking to network with like minded individuals. That way, they at least will be less suspicious that you're a cop or law enforcement. Other than that, try going to meetings at your local Peace and Justice Center. If there are any local protest groups in your area, join them and put out feelers. If you have a radical of left leaning bookstore in your area that does teach ins or lectures, go to them. There's Antifa there, I assure you. It's just a matter of getting them to open up and talk to you about it.

Just remember a few things. Be prepared to face suspicions that you may be undercover law enforcement. That's why the best advice is to simply show up at a protest and jump right in. You're going to have to find ways to set people's minds at ease. It won't be easy but if you really want it that bad, you'll find it. Good luck.

[brush]

36. Thank you, Hound, for the info. It's still surprising to me how many buy into the media...

narrative fed by wingers that antifa is just a bunch of leftist anarchists looking for a street rumble.

[Downtown Hound]

43. You're welcome. n/t

[Instant Liberal]

60. Most of them aren't looking for a fight

But enough of them are, and they're the ones who get video coverage. It's too bad because the fighters aren't even what you would call Liberal or progressive. Antifa doesn't have any centralized organization. They're just local groups that will coordinate, without any kind of rules to play by.

[applegrove]

3. The white supremacists constantly have to travel to Portland Oregon

to find an antifa that might let themselves be baited. So that proves 1) there are bad people in antifa in Portland 2) it is a false narrative that antifa is violent on the whole if white supremacists have to travel 2000 miles to bait in order to get the 'antifa is violent' narrative that they and the republicans want.

[rampartc]

7. this post is probably the answer

[Triloon]

13. Nothing in this post is true. You haven't been paying attention.

[applegrove]

16. Saw with mine own eyes some southern proud boy being interviewed.

Articles called the violence perpetrators on the left all black block. So not antifa.

[Downtown Hound]

22. If you want the truth, my advice would be to not go by what the media

and the Proud Boys are saying.

[applegrove]

24. Oh i trust CNN. Next you'll tell me not to believe my lying eyes. N/T

[Downtown Hound]

25. And what did your own lying eyes see?

A Proud Boy whining about being a victim? Now, that I can believe. What I don't believe is that he's telling the truth.

[Triloon]

28. you shouldnt believe some nasty southern proud boy over a nice northern antifa like me.

black bloc is a street tactic used by different groups, not a group in itself.
Antifa is active all across the country, and internationally, it's not just in Portland. Did you read anything about antifa in Charlottesville? or New York City? San Francisco? London? Berlin? Paris? There are plenty of accounts of anti-fascist action going back many years. Wherever the fascists decide to gather. This physical confrontation with fascist groups and the physical blocking of their public recruitment rallies is only part of the picture, there is plenty that goes on behind the scenes. Antifa volunteers work to identify individual members of fascist groups and track their movements and monitor their communications, along with a lot of other research. It is NOT just a bunch of kids out looking for a rumble. It is NOT a cointelpro op.
Right wing extremism (fascism) is growing in this country and in others. So is Antifa.
Antifa is not trying to persuade you of anything or change your politics. It is only interested in stopping the growth of fascism.
Wont you join up? I bet you look good in black... j/k.

[easttexaslefty]

30. This

[applegrove]

31. 3/4 of terrorism in the US is White Supremacist. 3% is leftist.

[maxsolomon]

52. 3%?

Tell me more about all this "Terror" from the "Leftists".

I'll start you off with 2 "Terror" incidents:
1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/19/ice-detention-center-attacker-killed-by-police-was-an-avowed-anarchist-authorities-say/

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting

Neither of those were Antifa. What comprises the rest of the 3%? Broken bank windows?

Meanwhile, an actual RW Terrorist walks free after shooting someone in the middle of the UW Campus:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/mistrial-declared-in-trial-of-couple-accused-of-uw-assault-after-jury-cant-reach-a-verdict/

[applegrove]

57. I agree.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. .......................

[DashOneBravo]

61. The worst thing that can happen to antifa

Is media coverage. It exposes the city politicians who let you get away with it.

The Democratic Party is a big tent. Which includes unions and law enforcement.

[jberryhill]

4. Define 'real'

[abqtommy]

5. Real as a tiki torch!

[lame54]

6. As real as the New Black Panthers

[Scurrilous]

51. LOL

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. I think highly contrived for the most part. A bit of a mixed bag.

I think a lot of the people are either Cointelpro style infiltrators wanting to make people on the left look scary or violent, or anarchist types who just enjoy chaos and breaking things.

I think there are probably some people mixed in who genuinely think that they are somehow combating fascism by doing what they do, although I think they are sadly misguided.

Honestly, I just don't get the "we need to be openly confrontational to the point of violence if need be" approach to neo-Nazis and fascists and the like. Peaceful demonstrations are great. But the sticks and the rock throwing is just pointless and counterproductive if it is intended to be legitimate.

And again, the majority I just don't see as legitimate anyways, so....

Also, I find the "They're just like soldiers in World War II" apologists to be completely off-base as well.

[rampartc]

14. +1

[Downtown Hound]

18. Peaceful demonstrators were getting stomped in Charlottesville

Until Antifa stepped up and saved their asses. Peaceful protest only goes so far. This right here is what I think of people who insist that peaceful protest is the only thing that should ever be allowed:

[brush]

34. Everyone has an opinion. In Charlottesville anti-fascists saved many clergy from getting...

stomped by the nazis and white supremacists who showed up there with tiki torches, khakis and white polo shirts.

Some people actually are sincere and act no matter if others are maybe anarchists and infiltrators (see as far back as the Spanish Civil war).

[Eko]

35. Sure thing,

Cause peaceful protests and the (local and federal) Government are doing such a good job that fascism is on the rise and has been for a long time.

[Scoopster]

10. The idea is real.

Being anti-fascist, aka against fascism, is a mainstream & normal thing for anyone in a democratic society. "Antifa" is a ficticious organization from the imagination of fascists used to smear anyone who stands against them.

BTW, now they're doing exactly the same thing with this new "AntiRa" creation.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

12. Exactly. Being against fascism is the default position for those with common sense and decency.

I don't understand why running around with masks and sticks somehow qualifies you to carry the banner.

[demmiblue]

11. Testosterone. n/t

[rampartc]

17. ok. much of the reports are from some cernovich guy on infowars

there is also a "reporter" named andy ngo who claims to be a victim in Portland. i'm kind of skeptical

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1163895246213779458.html

[Downtown Hound]

21. Andy Ngo is a joke. n/t

[Jake Stern]

58. He and his supporters claim he was beaten so badly that his brain bled

but, IIRC, he was out of the hospital and doing interviews the very next day.

[Iterate]

19. How any are there?

I'm not talking about braggarts or somebody with a T-shirt, but actual self-described activists who have geared up for a street confrontation. Some dozens? More than a couple hundred?

If it was much more than that, people would be talking. Interviews aplenty.

[Downtown Hound]

20. There are thousands, scattered all over the world

People are talking. And there have been interviews, but for the most part, they choose to remain anonymous. You think they would be able to be in Charlottesville, Portland, Europe, and the Bay Area if there were only a few dozen?

[Iterate]

32. I think you're making my point for me.

First, to get this out of the way, if you simply want to count people who consider themselves anti-fascist, that number would include most Europeans, many tens of millions of Americans(perhaps even a plurality), almost anyone on DU, admirers of Christopher Hitchens, and me.

European antifa is wholly different phenomena.

I'll grant you a couple of thousand in the US have suited up for battle, though I doubt it.

That's about 1 antifa "member" for for every 85 voting precincts. Hardly a number worthy the rabid talk, and a tiny fraction of white supremacists.

In other words, the right needs a devil, even if they need to invent or hype a phantom.

By comparison there is MS-13. Out all immigrant children 2012-2017, 56 were “confirmed or suspected” to be affiliated. About one kid per state. The right counts that as an invasion.

By comparison, there are about 30-40,000 members in the Russian mob, but don't tell anybody.

[Downtown Hound]

33. I never said they were worth the hype that the right makes of them.

The right lies all the freaking time, we all know that. These are the assholes that swore if we didn't invade Iraq, we'd be nuked any day now. But Antifa did shut down the largest white supremacist gathering in the United States in several generations. So, pretending that they are insignificant and don't matter isn't accurate either.

I hate to quote the Red Dawn remake, but I think it applies.

"Even the tiniest flea can drive a big dog crazy." That's exactly what Antifa has done.

[Iterate]

39. If I was 20, I might be there

But I'm not. I hope there is a worthwhile trade-off, youth for some perspective maybe.

I was at Osthofen last week, one of the very first camps. Front line anti-fascists, their lawyers, their dentists, their barbers, and their mayors all arrived at about the same time.

[nocoincidences]

23. Hide in plain sight. Always a smart move.

[Thomas Hurt]

26. Near as I can tell most of what is heard about Antifa is alt right gaslighting.

It certainly isn't a 150 year old conservative christian terrorist organization like the KKK.

[stonecutter357]

27. My grandfather was an original anti-facists ! He killed lots of natizi bastards .....

[juxtaposed]

53. that's what we're talking about!

[madinmaryland]

37. I'm an Anti-fascist. I have always been for my nearly 60 years...

I hate nazis. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

So if you are not an anti-fascist, then you are part of the problem and fuck you.

[juxtaposed]

55. ditto

[AncientGeezer]

38. Absolutely real....and dangerous.

[maxsolomon]

54. to whom?

Fascists?

[juxtaposed]

56. very scary! must hide!

[Tennessee Hillbilly]

40. usually the "antifa" are local people

Local people hear that fascists plan to gather in their city to stage a rally. Many of the local people don't want a fascist rally held in their city, and some of them decide to publicly show their opposition.

[Celerity]

41. What Is Antifa? Explaining the Movement to Confront the Far Right

The assault of a conservative journalist in Portland, Ore., over the weekend has brought renewed attention to anti-fascist protesters, whom he blamed for the attack.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/us/what-is-antifa.html

A clash between conservative marchers and black-clad protesters in Portland, Ore., this weekend, which left a conservative journalist roughed up and bloodied, has put new attention on a movement dedicated to confronting white supremacists and right-wing extremists, sometimes with violence. Known as antifa, a contraction of the word “anti-fascist,” the loose affiliation of radical activists has surfaced in recent years at events around the country, including in opposition to the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017.

In Portland this weekend, activists in the trademark black uniforms associated with antifa, as well as anarchists and related movements, struck the journalist Andy Ngo in the face, sending him to the emergency room. Mr. Ngo, who was also pelted with milkshakes, reported the attack in a video live-streamed to his more than 140,000 Twitter followers.

Who are the members of antifa?

It is impossible to know how many people count themselves as members. Its followers acknowledge that the movement is secretive, without official leaders and organized into autonomous local cells. It is also only one in a constellation of activist movements that have come together in the past few years to oppose the far right.

Antifa members campaign against actions they view as authoritarian, homophobic, racist or xenophobic. Although antifa is not affiliated with other movements on the left — and is sometimes viewed as a distraction by other organizers — their members sometimes work with other local activist networks that are rallying around the same issues, such as the Occupy movement or Black Lives Matter.

What are its goals?

snip

[yardwork]

42. I'm anti-fascist. Aren't you?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. Normal people are anti-fascist.

Normal people also don't usually like wearing masks and branding sticks and picking unnecessary fights with people whose shouldn't be artificially elevated in their notoriety.

There's the fine line.

[Tennessee Hillbilly]

46. wearing masks and branding sticks

People "wearing masks and branding sticks" are normally only a small percentage of anti-fascist counter-protesters at these confrontations. The large majority are ordinary local residents.

For example, at Charlottesville:
"Those who marched in opposition to the rally were unified in opposition to white supremacy, but "espoused a wide array of ideological beliefs, preferred tactics and political goals. A large number were ordinary residents of Charlottesville who wanted to show their disdain for white supremacist groups, particularly after the Ku Klux Klan held a rally in the city on July 8."[87] Ahead of the rally, an array of "faith-based groups, civil rights organizations, local businesses, and faculty and students at the University of Virginia" planned counterprotests.[46] In July 2017, the ecumenical and interfaith clergy group Congregate Charlottesville called for a thousand members of the clergy to counterprotest at the rally.[51][88] The Charlottesville House of Prayer also gathered at the site to pray. Groups counterprotesting included representatives from the National Council of Churches,[89] Black Lives Matter,[90] Anti-Racist Action,[91] the Democratic Socialists of America,[92] the Workers World Party,[93] the Revolutionary Communist Party,[94] Refuse Fascism,[95] Redneck Revolt,[96] the Industrial Workers of the World,[97][98] the Metropolitan Anarchist Coordinating Council,[99] and Showing Up for Racial Justice.[91][100][101] Members of the Antifa movement were also in attendance."

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally|

[Tommy_Carcetti]

48. I agree. The vast majority of Charlottesville protesters were regular sensible folk.

And even there, the "Antifa" contingent was not the problem in the deadly outcome of events.

My point is, however, that the masked contingent with sticks that likes to show up at some of these events seems to create a false narrative about the actual demographics of regular people who come to counter these protests, and I don't necessarily think it's a coincidence.

[yardwork]

47. You seem to be carrying around some stereotypes.

Are you sure about your facts?

[hunter]

63. Yep.

I don't even try to hide it.

Don't bring your fascist shit here I will punch you in the face.

https://www.themarysue.com/captain-america-smashes-fascists/

[DashOneBravo]

64. Are you going to hide a pad lock in a sock?

Last edited Sun Aug 25, 2019, 02:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Like that coward?

[FreeLookMode]

49. We need to stop the hand-wringing and doing the rights work for them

This is my hot take, your mileage may vary:

Liberals must stop joining in on the hand wringing over "Antifa." I read of lot if that online. Now's not the time. I dont plan to break any windows or be aggressive, but at this moment in America we need a pretty fucking big tent of anyone willing to show up and resist hate. I'll take the pacifists and the militants and everything in between and we can debate philosophy later. If some lunatic does something that harms a person in more than their pride, I'll condemn the person, not use that as a pretext for blanket equivocation. I refuse to play into the rights hands by accepting their "both sides" frame.

Then this last part is really just directed at myself. And I post it only for consideration as a frame for others, which you are of course free to discard:

I wasn't in the streets in Portland, even though I live in Eugene. If I'm not going to be in the streets myself, I feel like that should effect how critical and absolutist my rhetoric should be about those who are putting themselves on the front line.

[blogslut]

50. Proud Boys are fascist terrorists

Andy Ngo is a shit-filled opportunist who antagonizes anti-fascists.

[DashOneBravo]

59. They are punks

And the right tags it on us because there are west coast towns who let them get away with it or condone their bullshit

[Triloon]

65. You must be talking about the guys and gals that

travel from all across the country, but mainly from Washington state, to Portland with the intent of inflaming the city's residents and costing the city govt big policing bills.

Last week six of these guys, the main Patriot Prayer desperados in the May 1 assault on a left wing bar in Portland, were arrested by US Marshals on federal riot charges. Crossing state lines to incite riot.
https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/08/15/patriot-prayer-leader-joey-gibson-will-face-criminal-charges-in-may-day-riot-his-lawyer-says/
These must be the punks you are talking about, right?

In 2017 one of these punks, Jeremy Christian, murdered two men on a crowded city transport. They were preventing him from attacking two teenaged muslim girls in hijabs. He slashed their throats on the train. He is one of these costumed alt-right patriots attending these fake free speech rallies. Full story here if it is unfamiliar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack

Portland is a liberal city, proud of being a sanctuary city, and has made it abundantly clear that the message of the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, the III%, the American Guard, and other right wing extremists is not welcome in the public square. Too many people have been hurt. But they keep coming back, and drawing more of their type from across the country.
I feel certain that these are the punks you are talking about.

[DashOneBravo]

66. Yeah that's the punks I'm talking about.

The minute you formed up to break things or assault people you crossed that line. You went from free speech to being criminals

[Triloon]

67. I havent done any of those things.

You have presumed a whole hell of a lot about me. But that doesn't matter much. The residents are always going to come out to protest this stuff, always. If crimes are committed then the police will decide what they're going to do. I hope the recent arrests of the white wingers is a sign of what they've decided.

[Eugene]

62. Real knuckleheads.

Yes, they likely saved lives at Charlottesville. However, they sometimes engage in unprovoked violence, which hurts the anti-fascism cause.