General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe following list is of NINE things a woman couldn't do in 1971 - yes the date is correct, 1971.
The following list is of NINE things a woman couldnt do in 1971 yes the date is correct, 1971.
In 1971 a woman could not:
1. Get a Credit Card in her own name it wasnt until 1974 that a law forced credit card companies to issue cards to women without their husbands signature.
2. Be guaranteed that they wouldnt be unceremoniously fired for the offense of getting pregnant that changed with the Pregnancy Discrimination Act of *1978*!
3. Serve on a jury - It varied by state (Utah deemed women fit for jury duty way back in 1879), but the main reason women were kept out of jury pools was that they were considered the center of the home, which was their primary responsibility as caregivers. They were also thought to be too fragile to hear the grisly details of crimes and too sympathetic by nature to be able to remain objective about those accused of offenses. In 1961, the Supreme Court unanimously upheld a Florida law that exempted women from serving on juries. It wasn't until 1973 that women could serve on juries in all 50 states.
4. Fight on the front lines admitted into military academies in 1976 it wasnt until 2013 that the military ban on women in combat was lifted. Prior to 1973 women were only allowed in the military as nurses or support staff.
5. Get an Ivy League education - Yale and Princeton didn't accept female students until 1969. Harvard didn't admit women until 1977 (when it merged with the all-female Radcliffe College). Brown (which merged with women's college Pembroke), Dartmouth and Columbia did not offer admission to women until 1971, 1972 and 1981, respectively.
Other case-specific instances allowed some women to take certain classes at Ivy League institutions (such as Barnard women taking classes at Columbia), but, by and large, women in the '60s who harbored Ivy League dreams had to put them on hold.
6. Take legal action against workplace sexual harassment. Indeed the first time a court recognized office sexual harassment as grounds for any legal action was in 1977!
7. Decide not to have sex if their husband wanted to spousal rape wasnt criminalized in all 50 states until 1993. Read that again...1993.
8. Obtain health insurance at the same monetary rate as a man. Sex discrimination wasnt outlawed in health insurance until 2010 and today many, including sitting elected officials at the Federal level, feel women dont mind paying a little more. Again, that date was 2010.
9.The birth control pill: Issues like reproductive freedom and a woman's right to decide when and whether to have children were only just beginning to be openly discussed in the 1960s. In 1957, the FDA approved of the birth control pill but only for "severe menstrual distress." In 1960, the pill was approved for use as a contraceptive. Even so, the pill was illegal in some states and could be prescribed only to married women for purposes of family planning, and not all pharmacies stocked it. Some of those opposed said oral contraceptives were "immoral, promoted prostitution and were tantamount to abortion." It wasn't until several years later that birth control was approved for use by all women, regardless of marital status. In short, birth control meant a woman could complete her education, enter the work force and plan her own life.
Oh, and one more thing, prior to 1880 which is just a few years before the photo of this very proud lady was taken, the age of consent for sex was set at 10 or 12 in more states, with the exception of our neighbor Delaware where it was 7 YEARS OLD!
Feminism is NOT just for other women.
KNOW your HERstory.
Sanity Claws
(21,848 posts)I entered the workforce in 1981. Women were expected to wear skirts and dresses. You wouldn't dare wear anything else to a job interview. Of course, you also had to wear stockings. These days, pants look more modest than skirts and dresses.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)We were not allowed to wear pants/jeans on campus.
zeusdogmom
(993 posts)Dresses or suits only for Sunday dinner. Other meals more casual. But as a Home Ec major I was required by the dept. to always wear a dress or suit to class. Let me tell you, mighty cold walking bare legged to class in January in Minnesota. I didn't last long in that dept. for a variety of reasons. 🤣
Dorms had house mothers. We were required to sign out and sign back in at night - by 10 PM or you got "late minutes". And those "mothers" were at the desk checking you in. 15 late minutes and you were confined to your room for the weekend. Males, of course, had no such restrictions.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)and definitely not pants. Never pants.
Just those gawdawful mansuits with Victorian ruffled blouses or shirts with the silk ribbon bows
Dresses were for secretaries - but even in our little suits, we were still mistaken for secretaries.
The first female partner started with dresses and gradually female associates started to emulate her. But when I left in the '90s, we still weren't wearing pants - not even the fashion forward partner.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and it changed in 5th grade (1969-70) - we were allowed to wear "pantsuits." These were two pieces sold together and matching, yet we created some hilarious "pantsuits" - I had a blue dress that I wore blue bell bottoms under. By 7th grade, we could wear jeans or slacks, though in 9th grade the school found it necessary to ban "halter tops."
marlakay
(11,465 posts)Except at break.
My first office job just in the xerox room I had to wear a suit, skirt, blouse, jacket that was late 70s.
And even when you could get credit card they made it tough. I had to put $500 in a savings account for a year I couldnt touch while I used the $500 credit limit. After a year they gave me my money and I had credit.
And I bet we all had bosses back then who called you honey or babe and looked down your blouse.
If you needed your job you just kept away from them.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)of those I went through in my 80's waitressing career where the uniform was so short we had to wear "flash pants."
yardwork
(61,608 posts)As an elementary school student, I was never allowed to wear pants to school, except on very cold wintry days we were sometimes allowed to put pants on under our dresses, just for recess.
We usually wore tights under our skirts and dresses. On hot days we wore shorts under our skirts. This all severely limited how we could play - girls couldn't climb the monkey bars, run, or jump on the merry go round without our skirts flying up. The rule was designed to keep girls quiet and inactive.
CatMor
(6,212 posts)I'm afraid many young people don't know what feminism was all about. They don't realize this all happened in 1971not 1771 or 1871. I was in the fight to make the changes.
AJT
(5,240 posts)LAS14
(13,783 posts)marybourg
(12,631 posts)and some of these items had slightly different flavors in different states, this is all basically true.
Dave in VA
(2,037 posts)And to add, these rights were not just given out of the kindness of their hearts. It took many, many hard working women and men lobbying, marching, voting, GOTV efforts, etc. to secure these rights. They require us to be vigilant to keep them.
I remember when my mother-in-law received her first credit card in 1985 in her name only. She had worked for 35 years at the FBI headquarters in Washington, DC. My father-in-law was not happy that she had done this.
My mother didn't get credit in her name until my father passed away in 1995.
Don't think that your rights have always been there or that they always will be there.
Just my $0.02..........
thinkingagain
(906 posts)So as not to forget and go let it go backwards
katmondoo
(6,457 posts)This may have been in 1964 or 1965. This happened to me along with all the other no's women faced
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)... most banks made SURE the woman couldn't get a mortgage to own her own home.
The lucky few women who inherited or earned money could legally buy a house for cash. It was the bank loan that was impossible, not property ownership.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,690 posts)We had to argue and fight for every damn thing that we now take for granted (and that some want to take away).
malaise
(268,993 posts)We've come a long way babies!!!
burrowowl
(17,641 posts)Womens rights are already being eroded.
malaise
(268,993 posts)I also think we have failed to make them understand the struggles for Social Security and Medicare.
If we don't nourish the struggles and teach others about victories, others will fight to take them away.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)had anything or more than a tiny bit more than a little to do with any of the changes..
marybourg
(12,631 posts)now. In N.Y. abortion was decriminalized before Roe v. Wade under Republican Governor Nelson Rockefeller (with a lot of help from the women of n.y.)
captain queeg
(10,196 posts)I think the Reagan Revolution was the beginning of its now total transformation.
marybourg
(12,631 posts)JudyM
(29,241 posts)He pounded in the need for obstructing everything from our side, justifying it under the appeal and false cover of a distortion of religion and survival of the fittest.
Check out this piece about a book he had members of his party read... it describes alpha males, and how to become the alpha male by seeing how far you can push and get away with it. If thats not what mcconnells been doing Ill eat my hat. https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=751492970
pangaia
(24,324 posts)as undeveloped lower primates.... there is a great truth in this..
While making such a generalization is never quite accurate it is close enough...
'Republicans' do NOT search inside, do not do the psychological self-study/questioning, that 'democrats' tend to do. I mean there is a great sliding scale on both sides in this idea, and somewhere they probably meet in the middle.. but as a general rule I have found this to seem true.
With republicans it is, among so many other psychosis,-- - ME !
JudyM
(29,241 posts)made my day. Seriously perfect, taking it down a layer.
Might be an appealing thought line because my own othering of them has become a bit of a trigger and this tickles the funny bone. Their jaw dropping lack of ethics warrants all the colorful characterizations we can heap on them. Maybe one or two will stick with voters. Drive the knuckle draggers back to their caves.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)When the party was dominated by Northerners they were actually somewhat progressive, balancing their fiscal conservatism with social liberalism. It was Nixon's Southern Strategy that fundamentally shifted the party towards the South and the hard right and first drafted the party as ground troops in the culture wars.
Reagan consummated the marriage of the GOP and the Religious Right. The child they produced is the monster we see today.
Mrs. Overall
(6,839 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,855 posts)as a single woman of 19 in 1968. It wasn't all that hard. And that was from a private doctor. A few years later I was using Planned Parenthood for the prescription.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Where I lived none of the doctors would provide a prescription to an unmarried woman until the early 70s.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)"the Pill" always had "excruciating cramps" and a sympathetic doctor. When applying for a teaching job, in those days, young women wearing an engagement or wedding ring were routinely asked what their plans were in starting a family. A teacher was not allowed in the classroom when her pregnancy began to show, and maternity leave before earning permanent certification (then three years) was usually not available, though often an unwritten rule for which you, in reality, had no choice.
murielm99
(30,739 posts)but this is a personal one.
I got married at twenty-one, and finished college. When I had been married a year, I went to the doctor to renew my birth control prescription. I was working, but looking into grad schools.
The doctor told me that since I had been married for a whole year and had had plenty of time to adjust to marriage, he could not renew my prescription. It was time for me to start a family.
Like hell. I found another doctor.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)raccoon
(31,110 posts)babylonsister
(171,065 posts)we're going backwards.
The Trump Administration Is Trying to Make It Easier to Fire Unmarried Pregnant Women
A new rule from the Department of Labor uses the guise of religious beliefs to allow discrimination.
The Department of Labor proposed a new rule this week that would make it easier for employers to discriminate against workers who they say violate their religious beliefs, including members of the LGBTQ community, pregnant women who are not married, and others.
The proposed rule, published Thursday in the Federal Register, purports to clarify the scope and application of the religious exemption in the Equal Opportunity Clause, making it easier for employers who contract with the federal government to claim religious exemptions in their hiring and firing decisions.
The ACLU says that the rule would persecute marginalized workers under the guise of religious freedom.
more...
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/08/trump-administration-rule-religious-belief-discrimination-lgbtq-unmarried-pregnant/
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)In the multi-thousand year history of human civilization, we're ahead of them in equality by the blink of an eye.
p.s. -- do you have a link to the source of this piece? Curious to see the photo referenced.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)MiniMe
(21,716 posts)But I was alive way back then, and remember most of that.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)MiniMe
(21,716 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)MiniMe
(21,716 posts)I can't find it.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)MiniMe
(21,716 posts)Though I think the one that I saw was from a different poster. Doesn't matter. Thanks for finding it.
MiniMe
(21,716 posts)greyl
(22,990 posts)It varied by state (Utah deemed women fit for jury duty way back in 1879), but the main reason women were kept out of jury pools was that they were considered the center of the home, which was their primary responsibility as caregivers. They were also thought to be too fragile to hear the grisly details of crimes and too sympathetic by nature to be able to remain objective about those accused of offenses. In 1961, the Supreme Court unanimously upheld a Florida law that exempted women from serving on juries. It wasn't until 1973 that women could serve on juries in all 50 states.
--
4. Get an Ivy League education:
Yale and Princeton didn't accept female students until 1969. Harvard didn't admit women until 1977 (when it merged with the all-female Radcliffe College). With the exception of the University of Pennsylvania, which began accepting women on a case-by-case basis in 1876, and Cornell, which admitted its first female student in 1870 (also offering admission under special circumstances), women couldn't attend Ivy League schools until 1969 at the earliest. Brown (which merged with women's college Pembroke), Dartmouth and Columbia did not offer admission to women until 1971, 1972 and 1981, respectively. Other case-specific instances allowed some women to take certain classes at Ivy League institutions (such as Barnard women taking classes at Columbia), but by and large, women in the '60s who harbored Ivy League dreams had to put them on hold.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/07/living/sixties-women-5-things/index.html
And a little from this 2016 Medium article:
Women have access to the birth control pill.
Issues like reproductive freedom and a womans right to decide when and whether to have children were only just beginning to be openly discussed in the 1960s. In 1960, the pill was approved for use as a contraceptive. Even so, the pill was illegal in some states and could be prescribed only to married women for purposes of family planning, and not all pharmacies stocked it. It wasnt until several years later that birth control was approved for use by all women, regardless of marital status. In short, birth control meant a woman could complete her education, enter the work force and plan her own life.
Medium - American Patriarchy
Hekate
(90,681 posts)Gothmog
(145,225 posts)underpants
(182,802 posts)lastlib
(23,226 posts)lark
(23,099 posts)I know in FL you couldn't get birth control pills or any form of rx birth control unless you were married well into the 1970's.
You couldn't use your real name when signing checks. I had a dr. in CA refuse to take a check or give me my much needed rx glasses because I didn't sign it Mrs. Steven xxx and this was in 1972.
You couldn't wear long pants to school unless it was freezing or below otherwise it was only dresses & skirts. and you got sent home if they were too short - more than 1 in. above the knees. So ll dresses/skirts either had to have the hems let out, and then we'd roll the skirts waist to shorten them and pull it out when walking to classes where teachers were watching. That all changed in 1972 when a bunch of parents sued the school board and won
dawg day
(7,947 posts)but just until we got on school property. Then-- standing at the fence around the school-- we had to take off our boots and take off our pants-- standing in the snow in our socks-- so that we would not, what? Be covering our calves and shins on school property? It made no sense, but let's face it, oppression of women rules never make sense, because the whole point was to say: We own you. You don't have any rights. We can decide whatever arbitrary and stupid thing we want, and you have to comply.
Ligyron
(7,632 posts)After a couple scares we found through the grape vine a totally cool Doc who was happy to prescribe and I only paid like 20 dollars. The pills themselves were plenty cheap too and even at my $6.00 an hour job this whole situation was a bargain. Now look at what we got going on in health care.
Well do I remember the dress code for public schools being completely eliminated in Palm Beach County in '72 thanks to a lawsuit. A super great young attorney who was a chaperon on a trip to Europe our church put together for its' teens brought the suit. They had suspended a boy for refusing to get a haircut and that was the test case needed. Settled out of court too as the school board was advised they would never prevail and for a good while after that we could wear cutoffs and flip flops to school if we wished.
The rules did tighten up a little after about a year or so for safety considerations. Little things like not wearing KKK apparel and requiring actual shoes to be worn so one's foot didn't get cut off in shop class but things were never the same for school administrations afterward. It was becoming recognized across the country that even teens and young people under 21 actually had rights. Before long 18 yr old people could vote and drink alcohol besides just being cannon fodder compelled to fight and kill people in foreign wars for the profit of the MIC.
Got carried away here. Sorry to rant but these were exciting times and the country was heading in a better direction for the most part. Too bad it didn't last.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)WOW, what were you doing? The minimum wage was around $1.50 an hour, give or take, in the early Seventies, as I remember. Maybe you were a little older and the job was full time (?) Still, six dollars an hour was excellent money for any job for a young woman. Many salaried jobs, such as teaching, didn't break down to that much an hour.
Ligyron
(7,632 posts)I'm kidding a little here ... but not much.
It was a summer job for me at the time laying coaxial cable, i.e., I dug ditches. I was 17 yrs old. Most of the guys I worked with made 4 or 5 dollars an hour and the job site was an hour away during which we were paid to sleep in the back of the truck.
Now, a friend of mine was employed at a movie theater where I would work part time on occasion throughout high school and the pay was $1.50 an hour, the minimum wage. I usually worked as an usher and dressed in a tuxedo and the job was mainly escorting people to their seats, signalling the way with a flashlight. I remember older ladies would sometimes take my arm on the way down just like we were in a wedding. Always got a kick out of that.
It was Cinema 70, a huge single screen place like they had back in those days and I must have seen the Godfather a hundred times in pieces and never got tired of it. I think admission was about $1.00 or $1.50 with the smoking section costing another 25 cents or so
Different times for sure.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)I wasn't thinking of a summer job that paid adult (and male adult) wages. I wasn't sure of your sex, but since you put GF in caps I should have known. Most of the teenage guys I knew in my generation worked at car washes, drive-ins. and the like. Now that you bring it up, I do remember my first year of teaching in the early Seventies. I had boys who were eleventh graders kidding me, saying things like "My uncle's getting me a job in construction and I'll make more than you in three months." Most young male teachers did that sort of work during the summers and made nearly as much as the other nine months of the year. Young women teachers didn't have that option, so you AREN'T kidding that much about being male. Different times? For Sure!
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)dollar an hour. But I was hard up.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I got them when entering college, with my mother's supervision, because I didn't want to be in a dorm with the type of "menstrual distress" that I suffered. My mother knew I could be trusted not to otherwise take advantage because I was shy and scared of everything. My father had some doubts, though, and tried to convince me they would cause cancer! Now we see that they did not cause cancer. And if you hate periods, they are the bomb!
This was the late 70s, but maybe the original use meant they could be prescribed to an unmarried college student if that was the purpose. In fact a lot of girls may have claimed that purpose out of embarrassment.
lark
(23,099 posts)My sister had a miscarriage and doc said her hormones were way out of whack & she had to go on hormones (birth control pills) to get regulated. He told her when mom was out of the room that the pills would prevent her from getting pregnant but he wouldn't tell mom that. This was in 1972 in NE FL.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I would not think there is any proof that your hormones are out of whack and taking birth control pills is not going to help you get pregnant again. 1972, oh geez.
But it is interesting that they seem to have been, at least according to the assertion, invented in the first place to deal with menstrual distress but then happened to prevent pregnancy. If that's true.
lark
(23,099 posts)She'd only had 2 periods in her life by age 17 and our old doc wouldn't do anything about it - because - birth control. One of mom's friends said this is dangerous so she took my sister to a different dr. who told mom he could give my sister pills to regulate her and that they weren't birth control pills. Dr. told my sister the truth of the matter.
Oh, I just re-read your post, dr. didn't say birth control pills would help her get pregnant - he told mom they weren't birth control pills but hormone pills because my sister wasn't producing enough of her own. He cared about my sister as a person, rather than just a young female who would sin and have sex more if given the pill like our previous dr. The non-production of hormones was diagnosed way back when she was 13, confirmed when she was 15 but our old asshat dr. didn't care. This new dr. probably saved her life.
treestar
(82,383 posts)not to have periods - infertile, obviously, but "dangerous?" I think BC pills keep you from ovulating. But they do cause a strict 28 day cycle, so maybe they would help with regulation.
They used to say having a baby would stop the menstrual distress . The doctor I had at age 18 who gave me the pills for menstrual distress also suggested that "having a boyfriend" (wink, wink,) would help with that!
Maybe it's a good thing more women are becoming gynecologists.
lark
(23,099 posts)Hormones do more than regulate periods is what I remember, but don't remember the ways he mentioned.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)This was about that time. Here is what the doctor and hospital -- small town, these were the only surgeon and hospital around--required from her:
1. She had to be married. Single women, divorced women, widows, could not choose to have a sterilization.
2. Her husband's permission. They were actually about to get divorced, and he withheld the permission until she agreed to a worse financial settlement.
3. Get this-- her age X number of children had to equal at least 100. Seriously. She was 30 and had already had 4 children, so she was "approved." If she'd been 30 and had 3 children, she wouldn't have been allowed to have this procedure.
This wasn't just legal. This was the approved way for the medical establishment to treat adult women's understable-- even HEALTHY - choice to conclude their childbearing.
There was actually another option. Young women with perfectly functioning reproductive organs would be told that the doctor could find some reason to do a hysterectomy (major surgery plunging the woman into immediate menopause). That was allowed, where a simple, safe sterilization wasn't.
Niagara
(7,605 posts)Or at least they did back in the year 2000. The requirement at the time was one had be at least 25 years old and or to already have 3 or more children.
The OB-GYN that I went to for my last pregnancy agreed to do a tubal for me even though I was slightly short in both categories. I did have to persist and make my case before he agreed to it though. He claimed that many women came back later and regretted their decision and that tubal reversals weren't always successful. Luckily, I didn't need my then husbands consent to have it done either.
19 years later and I still don't regret my decision.
MontanaMama
(23,314 posts)I was born in 1964...and have lived a fairly privileged life because other women fought for the rights I have enjoyed and often take for granted. My late mother always told me that the fight wasnt over...that it would never be over. She was right. ERA Now!
procon
(15,805 posts)College grad, good job, good down payment, and I still had to bring my Daddy in to cosign the loan before the dealership would sell me a car. The paperwork was in my dad's name with me secondary.
Same thing when I went to buy a house. I was married then but the house was supposed to be only in my name because the DH had debt and other financial issues. It was my money for the down payment and I would have made the mortgage payments. If I put the house in my husband's name, even with his debt problems, they would still give me a loan. Again, I had to ask my dad to cosign the home loan.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)your credit, doesn't it? Ten years later, my pop had to cosign my car loan at the financial institution where I worked and was an officer, even though my budget indicated that I clearly had the disposable income to buy and finance the car.
malthaussen
(17,194 posts)In other news, I had a friend who had been working at the local hospital for years. She got married and put her $40,000 inheritance into a house in the neighborhood (in her husband's name, because property ownership was another problematical thing in the early '70s). A week or so later, the hospital sent a letter "welcoming" the husband to the neighborhood. Which is irony, if you like.
-- Mal
LiberalFighter
(50,922 posts)The problem with those that thought insurance premium should be higher for women is that imo it was due to pregnancy. What others don't get is that for a woman to get pregnant a man is/was required. So instead of sharing the premium cost in this factor they put it all on the woman.
Maybe I am wrong.
But there are also medical conditions that are more likely to occur in men then women. And maybe there are medical conditions that women suffer because of men. I'm a man, so I wouldn't have a clue about that. Maybe others do.
As for the rest of the things women couldn't do...
I just wonder how history might have changed if those roadblocks had been eliminated way back then?
soldierant
(6,857 posts)paying higher premiums for health insurance IF all the medical studies were done on women.
As it is, my very presence as a patient constitutes an educational opportunity for any doctor trained on information based on studies conducted with men only - which is all of them. If you look at it that way, they should be paying me.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)That's what we were told. If teen girls ran up and down a court, their poorly attached uteruses (most of which would, btw, within a decade or so be going through all sorts of contortions and complications to incubate and deliver 8-pound babies) would fall out.
So we played this stupid "4 quarters" game, which had nothing to do with 4 quarter hour time periods, but rather 4 quarters of the court. In this game, each guard had one quarter of the court to guard. Each forward had one quarter of the court to shoot from. Only the two centers could move, and then only in the "shooting" court-- that is, the centers could move around one side of the court, not both.
This meant most of the players could move only about 20 feet or so at a time. Only forwards could shoot, and only from their designated quarter. Only guards could guard, and only in their designated quarter.
It's almost incomprehensible now, when women are pounding away at each other in rugby, throwing the shotput, playing professional basketball (all courts!), winning the Gold Cup!
And you know, I have never seen a uterus fall out.
burrowowl
(17,641 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)would make her so she could not have children.
BarbD
(1,192 posts)I was asked "How fast can you type?" while the male grads were entered into the executive training program.
I envy my nine granddaughters who have so many options. What I could have done with those choices!
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)Seriously. And, of course, there was no recourse.
I had an art history degree from an Ivy League University plus already work experience & refs from 2 NYC iconic art galleries. But that meant nothing. The wife's worry that I might be "too pretty" for her husband to resist, was actually acceptable grounds for dismissal.
Backseat Driver
(4,392 posts)DH once worked with a female recruiting supervisor to find a new employment opportunity. This woman had a very young and attractive account manager to whom he was to report the "results" of his interview(s). While discussing resumes after one such post-interview meeting, the account manager revealed to DH that her supervisor, the "recruiter," had hired the account manager after luring her away from her previous position by offering a much larger salary working for her. What was that account manager's previous position??? The account manager was the supervisor's previous nanny to her and her husband's children! The young lady had had no other "job" experience in the business world. Now just why would anyone relinquish a wonderful nanny and offer the chid-minder who was "working on her degree in Early Childhood Education," not Business Admin, such a "better" opportunity with a much larger salary to mind job candidates in IT. If you use your imagination, and, granted, nothing can be proven on a hunch, but there's a very likely explanation...LOL!
That said, with regard to "acceptable grounds for dismissal," in my state employers don't need a reason to "let go" of anyone they want, and they don't need a reason. The burden of proof is on the fired/laid off employee re litigation should one decide to pursue that. One can appeal not receiving unemployment benefits but that's about it as far as restoring one's salary and/or position. Violations of legislation designed for protection of the employee or their preferential status may only be in force for federal "civil service" situations as well. Though, of course, litigation has been pursued against corporate employers, even successfully in a few cases, it's an unlikely pursuit and/or win for the employee so removed from the payroll for non-performance and/or "just cause" issues. Businesses may get fined, but there's little interest in establishing a case for justice to the individual victims of the corporate violation.
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)Backseat Driver
(4,392 posts)to pursue an accredited BS degree. At the interview with college admissions, I was shown an early video in which students were instructed on how to walk while serving coffee to all those men around the conference table. Needless to say, I did not sign up there or at any other college at that time. My dad was very ill, and my mom "dropped out" of high school her junior year; I had younger siblings and a drafted BF. I went to work as a banking secretary first in the newly created credit card department linked to one of the big two cards; then to a senior VP of Trust without the degree in working the runway, LOL! It was many years and a husband, a house, and a couple of daughters later that I finally did attend college, but that's another story in frustration...
murielm99
(30,739 posts)one for male, the other for female.
livetohike
(22,142 posts)I wonder what year that changed?
Daphne08
(3,058 posts)tblue37
(65,342 posts)MiniMe
(21,716 posts)See #32 above.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)NNadir
(33,517 posts)Ohiogal
(31,997 posts)Thank you for the post and for all comments. Most males have no idea we have been so oppressed not that long ago.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Meaning spousal sex after incapacitation is still legal.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Spousal rape is still legal in Ohio, unless there is violence involved. Getting your spouse drunk, giving them the date rape drug, etc. is all something other than rape.
spartan61
(2,091 posts)at a very large university. Coeds who lived in dorms on campus or in sorority houses off campus had curfews. Week nights we had to be in by 10:30, Fridays and Saturdays our curfew was 1:00 a.m. and Sundays in by 11:00. If we were late, we received "late minutes" and once we collected 15 of them, we were "grounded" for the week-end. BTW, the men didn't have curfews or late minutes. Looking back, I can't imagine why we didn't protest. Oh, we also couldn't wear pants or jeans on campus or to classes.
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)demigoddess
(6,640 posts)her tubes tied. He did an operation, but only tied one tube. She got pregnant. He did this because women were just too stupid to make a decision like this and doctors all thought when the woman got pregnant she would be happy and change her mind about not having more children.It was pretty common practice at that time for surgeons to do this.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)kentuck
(111,094 posts)Did they really do something good?
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)When some brat spouts that the Boomers did nothing and are just leeches on society, I get real irritated.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)llmart
(15,539 posts)I'm tired of the "boomers did nothing" meme that shows up on DU constantly.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I was fortunate enough to have come of age after the feminists had changed things for us for the better, but many young women today seem to take it for granted.
This is why it makes me so angry when I hear young women say they aren't feminists or that they dislike feminists. They have absolutely no idea how much they owe to them. How much we all owe to them. I am so grateful for these women who fought for the freedoms that we have today.
Greybnk48
(10,168 posts)This was in Wisconsin. Like I wasn't scared and stressed enough to be a 31 y/o single mom. My lawyer said to ask them who had signed all of the monthly bills to show responsibility and I finally got heat and electric and a phone. I think the fact that I had kids helped. It sucked.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)Southern California from 1966-70, girls were not allowed to wear pants -- dresses/skirts only. This rule was enforced not only during the regular school day but at all school related activities. Nothing like attending a fall football game with bare knees.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)captain queeg
(10,196 posts)I was thinking back, and there have been huge changes. Remember the term Womens Lib? You dont hear it used much any more but its truly been a process of liberation.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)It was the law - to keep women from being "exploited."
question everything
(47,479 posts)And there were still too many women proudly claiming they would not vote for Hillary..
Daphne08
(3,058 posts)when I bought my first car in 1970, and I had to prove I was married in order to get birth control pills in 1971.
Young people often have no idea about our lives back then.
Mme. Defarge
(8,028 posts)all conducted by men, when I promised, in response to a direct question, that I would never entertain even a thought of getting pregnant.
Ginger42
(59 posts)girls couldn't wear pants. In North Dakota. And we *had* to go outside for recess no matter how cold it was. We used to huddle up on the side of the school away from the wind with our bare legs freezing. In the early 1980s I had a hell of a time getting a credit card. I was married but didn't take my husband's last name so no one would issue me a card because our names were different. And to the upstream poster about working in advertising, it hadn't changed a whole lot by the 1980s. I worked in TV ad production and we were still seen as secretaries who also wrote, shot and edited ads.
Delmette2.0
(4,165 posts)The 60's were my grade school years ,too. I grew up in rural Montana, a small town with dirt streets except for Main Street. When a gust of wind came up and dust was swirling I would crouch down so the dirt and small pebbles wouldn't sting my legs.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)and the bank would not let her on the mortgage for a house, or buy a car without my signature. The Citadel (military college of SC) had a huge fight over admitting women. Clubs (like the Country Club and Yacht Club) only put memberships in the man's name.
My mother taught college math for 25 years in SC, and she constantly raised hell with banks, stores, etc. Her favorite was to find out the CEO or President's phone and call them and demand equal treatment. Not bad for someone born in 1930.
The 18 year old vote, Title IX, and the almost passed ERA all combined to help move the needle.
If every other President was a woman, we would have less wars, less spent on the MI complex, better schools, better health care, and guns would no away.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 24, 2019, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)
they'd need to have their husband, father, uncle, brother, etc co-sign for them.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/25-years-since-women-need_b_4164299
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)I don't know which casualty company she worked for, but she was one of the first women "allowed" to have a company car and work on the road.
Before then, all women were required to work office jobs only. They were not deemed sufficiently responsible to work out of the office, and it was considered too dangerous for them to be outside photographing accident scenes or taking statements from people.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)but, it was nearly 100 years before another Ivy joined them
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)Even at Cornell in the late 60's, there was only 1 woman undergrad admitted to every four men.
Penn was the only other Ivy fully co-ed then, but I suspect the gender quotas/imbalances were similar.
Harvard, Columbia and Brown shared/pooled varying degrees of resources with "sister schools" (ex Pembroke, Radcliffe) but I suspect the gender imbalances were about the same ratio there too..
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)how many college applicants were women compared to men? I think it was about 1/3 in the 1960s that applied to college were women, but I remember it being fairly balanced by the time I graduated high school in the mid 80s. And, at higher levels (Master's and Doctorates) it was much less than that in the 1960s.
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)There were not such drastically less women than men because women didn't apply or want to go there. The discrimination
ag women was endemic to the University; they idiotically claimed the smaller enrollment was necessary bkz there was much less dorm space for women. Due not in small part to the efforts of the early boomer women students (esp my class of 1969), the pressure to treat women equally began simple and effective changes pretty quickly. Probably the most immediate(1970-71) and obvious factor that began the opening up of space(admissions) for many more women was turning all dorms coed. That sea change built upon women students forcing the administration to end the "women's curfew" in 1966-7 and all the sexist mythology about our gender that implies . (eg innocent women students needed to be separated/protected from horny men students)
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)(cooking and sewing) in order to graduate from high school.
MiniMe
(21,716 posts)But I remember girls took home ec, and boys took shop. I was in the band, and band took the place of home ec. Whew.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)I wish it would of been allowed to replace Home Ec.
I wanted to take shop. My Dad was President of the school board and we decided together not to push the issue. After I graduated he (along with other board members who had daughters) changed the policy.
Response to MiniMe (Reply #83)
captain queeg This message was self-deleted by its author.
procon
(15,805 posts)Thanks to my grandma and my mom, I already knew how to cook and and made the family dinner almost every night as my mom was in poor health. I didn't want to go back to the basics at school. I did want to go to drafting class, but I was told no, that was for boys only.
captain queeg
(10,196 posts)Where I went to college Home Economics was offered as a major.
MiniMe
(21,716 posts)It is interesting, but it doesn't tell us when you are talking about. 80's, 90's, or later?
captain queeg
(10,196 posts)shanti
(21,675 posts)that both sexes should have under their belt. Didn't hurt that I liked cooking and sewing (still do).
When I took home ec in jr. high in the late 60's, it was only girls in the class, but in later years, my sons took it too.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)All of my nephews took it - late 80s.
Nitram
(22,800 posts)with the idea of "home ECONOMICS." Women were considered to be foolish with money and incapable of sticking to a budget. In my family, however, my Mom did the taxes and she had a stronger voice than my Dad in financial decisions.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)even on the coldest days.
We weren't required to take Home Ec, but I did my Senior year because I needed more classes and there was nothing else offered. Looking back on it, I'm really glad I did even though everyone else in the class was 9th and 10th graders. LOL
Learning to sew came in handy when I married and made clothes for my little girl. I made a nice velvet pantsuit for myself too... All these memories popping in my head just typing this.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)We took it in the 9th grade. She reminded me that it included personal female hygiene and that we were required to shave our legs and arm pits. The teacher would check the girls from time to time and if not recently shaved you got a demerit. In our case we were extremely light complected and had little hair but still...
I recall that my mother was furious about this requirement.
treestar
(82,383 posts)though the year after i took it, the school allowed either sex to take which one they chose; a few boys took home ec!
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)had shop class. woodworking, metal working and car repair.
Mr.Bill
(24,286 posts)admonish a female attorney for not wearing nylons, and warning her not to appear bare-legged again before his court.
Progressive Law
(617 posts)rickyhall
(4,889 posts)to run my dad & mom's business in Texas while my dad was starting another in Arkansas.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)Switzerland! That just blew me away when I read that. In my mind, they seem like such a progressive country. France granted women the right to vote in 1948 or so in acknowledgement of the role that they played in the Resistance. By that reasoning, men who don't enter the armed forces shouldn't be allowed to vote at all.
Thinking about all this, part of me worries about the future of women in this country. But then, I hear young women speak and see them accomplish so much, and I know that they will fight like hell against those who would turn back the clock.
locks
(2,012 posts)After 20 years of marriage my husband left me. I soon found out that my name was not on either of our cars and though I was the only one driving the family car with three teenage children he took the car and I had to use a bicycle to get around Hyde Park and the University of Chicago. I did all the shopping for the family; my husband had gotten a Marshall Field credit card for me which I used often. After he left I went to Marshall Field's and was terribly embarrassed to be told that my credit card had been closed and I would have to reapply to get one in my name. Before that I thought women were making headway: in 1952 I was married and in college but I could not get a job at the Public gas company in Enid Oklahoma because married women might get pregnant.
MiniMe
(21,716 posts)Sounds like you had a rough time. I've known women who had husbands that did things like that to the women I knew, and that was recently.
mahina
(17,652 posts)I know from personal experience that women could attend the Harvard graduate school is design earlier
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)In 59 and lived all this. The young women today have no idea how things have changed so recently.
Ginger42
(59 posts)especially a young woman, disparages "feminists" I always want to hand her a long list of things she wouldn't be able to do if not for feminists. Maybe I'll print this and keep it handy. If you're ready to go back and live by these rules, go ahead. But I'm damned if you're dragging me with you.
And it does seem like a small thing, but I honestly think the strict school dress codes would piss them off the most.
skorpo
(329 posts)Got my Town & Country credit card in 1967.
Married in 1968 & called to havemy married name put on the card.
They wanted my husband's name.
I wouldn't give it SO they said they would cancel the card.
SO I threatened to sue T & C.
They relented and I used it for several years.
New Breed Leader
(623 posts)They couldn't be patrol officers and they couldn't be detectives. I think they could work inside of police offices, but only as a secretary and they had to wear skirts. Anyone confirm?
MiniMe
(21,716 posts)If you ever watched Charlie's Angels, which I think started in the 70's, all the women had very "girl-like" jobs before they worked for Charlie. '76-'81
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)Niagara
(7,605 posts)mgardener
(1,816 posts)I lived in Vermont and could not get a credit card using my hyphenated last name.
I was told to use my husband's name instead even though my legal name was hyphenated. I ended up having to involve the A G's office.
And I got my credit card.
brooklynite
(94,547 posts)sarge43
(28,941 posts)Service women were summarily discharged for pregnancy, no matter their marital status. Civilian husbands of service women were not granted dependent status, no medical care at gov't hospitals, no BX or commissary privileges, no gov't housing or BAQ (basic allowance for quarters).
Thanks to a Supreme Court ruling, this change o/a 1972/73.
llmart
(15,539 posts)the term "feminist". Some of us fought for our rights in big ways and little ways. I was born in '49 and graduated from high school when I was 17. I had to support myself right out of high school because my father had no income and didn't seem to be interested in getting a job. My first job was as a "Girl Friday" (what a quaint little term, eh?) in a three-man law firm. There was only one female attorney in the entire county in 1967. Every step of the way women met obstacles to being independent and financially secure. I did whatever I had to do to hold a job, so you put up with the harassment, the crappy jobs, the low pay, etc. It's called survival mode.
I married one week before my 20th birthday and I had to have my father come to the court house to sign for me to get married, even though I had been out on my own since my high school graduation. I had my first child when I was 21. The rules at the company where I worked were that once you started "showing" you had to quit. I was supporting my husband and carried the benefits for the two of us (he was in college) and I lied about my due date so that I could work as long as possible. After my husband graduated from college he got called up for basic training and was going to be gone for four months. I had to start looking for a new job when my baby was 3 months old and the employment agency told me to never tell the interviewers that I had a baby or they wouldn't hire me.
After my second child was born I was only 25 and had always said I only wanted two children, so I asked my doctor for a tubal. He was Catholic and told me he wouldn't do it. I asked around until I found a guy (and yes, all OB/GYN's were male) who said he would do it but I'd have to have my husband's signature on a form. He had no problem signing it and I can say with certainty that I never regretted my decision.
Most women of a certain age have a gazillion stories about how we were treated and the roadblocks put in front of us all along the way.
napi21
(45,806 posts)some things back them & she just responds "Nooooo! Really?" I don't think about it often, but I wouldn't go back to those days for ANYTHING! When I hear some people, like our "Con Man", speak of when America was great, I call BS! Of course, he was a man, so what the hell does he know!
BumRushDaShow
(128,963 posts)I think she said she had a Wanamaker's card in her own name in the mid-50s when she was working but after marrying, all the cards were in my father's name. And when he died in '74, her efforts to get their cards changed to be in her name were unsuccessful outside of one that I think was an Exxon card (which a year or so earlier had been updated when Esso was renamed to Exxon), where they only conceded to update the account to be "Mrs. <husband's name>" (not using her own first name with her marriage name but acknowledging her as the "wife/widow" ). The rest of the accounts for credit cards were closed.
I think one of the first ones to give her one in her own (marriage) name after all that was Talbot's and later Abraham & Strauss.
But to add another to the list - women needed their husband's consent to have a hysterectomy in '71 and just after (another my mom was impacted by and ranted about).
I agree that the young women today have no idea.... That was what prompted Gloria Steinem to create Ms. magazine and we certainly had a subscription in our household!
47of74
(18,470 posts)peasant one
(150 posts)I, too, experienced some of the same things mentioned above--
Girls had to wear dresses to school until I was in fifth grade, even in freezing conditions!
In the 7th grade, the Principal measured our skirts -- they couldn't be more than 5 inches above the knee.
In the 80s I got my first job as a deputy district attorney. During my first trial the office had someone observe --to review my performance at trial. The only suggestions for improvement were on my appearance. They said I should wear more makeup and put my hair up.
Once when I was sitting in the courtroom documenting my files a 60-year-old attorney came in and wanted to talk to the deputy district attorney. He asked me, "Honey, can you tell me where the prosecutor is?" I replied, "Honey, you're looking at her."
Things change so very very slowly.
And remember that "all men are created equal" did not include us (women) or all men (POC).
Runningdawg
(4,516 posts)That was denied. The school said it would be a waste of time because even if they trained me and I became the star pupil NO ONE would hire a woman. I was forced to choose between secretarial school or cosmetology school.
However not every place was as backwards as OK. 2 years later I was hired by a Co (owned by a guy in Pure Prairie League) out of Ohio to work as a roadie. There was one other girl in the company and over the course of working for them 3 years, I met 2 other girls from other companies who were roadies.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)she was doing wrong by wearing pants to school. She was dressed so cute in jeans, plaid shirt and matching ribbons in her pigtails. Those of us who wore dresses would crouch down so our skirts would cover our legs to keep them warm. Her mother did right by her and the principal was an idiot.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)Over my sister and I being forced to wear dresses or skirts to school in sub zero January temperatures in 1970.
The following year girls were allowed to wear pants from November until March.
I don't recall any rules for the boys, beyond not being allowed to wear baseball and cub scout caps indoors. Oh, and the short hair, of course.