Printer who nixed gay pride shirt goes to Ky. Supreme Court

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) — A Kentucky print shop owner who refused to make a gay pride T-shirt argued before the Kentucky Supreme Court that he shouldn't be compelled to promote messages that go against his religious beliefs.

Blaine Adamson, owner of Hands-On Originals in Lexington, declined a T-shirt order from Lexington's Gay and Lesbian Services Organization for the city's 2012 Gay Pride Festival. The design had the text "Lexington Pride Festival" wrapped around the number five, celebrating the event's fifth year.

The city's Human Rights Commission said Adamson's refusal violated its gay-rights fairness ordinance.

On Friday, the high court heard an attorney for the T-shirt maker argue that the First Amendment protects Adamson from having to print that message. The Human Rights Commission argued the T-shirt maker cannot pick and choose who it wants to serve in the Lexington community.

"The purpose of the law is to remove the stigma of discrimination," the commission's lawyer, Edward Dove, told the court Friday.

The Supreme Court will issue a ruling at a later date.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/printer-who-nixed-gay-pride-shirt-goes-to-ky-supreme-court/ar-AAGeBYj?li=BBnbcA1

[Initech]

1. Where do we find these people?

[struggle4progress]

2. I think the printer is entitled to refuse to help spread messages he disagrees with

IMO (for example) he would be entitled to turn down a job printing neo-Nazi propaganda or would be entitled to turn down a job advocating a statutory change he opposed

I certainly support the ordinance, but there are some rights in conflict here IMO

[maxrandb]

8. That's such bullshit

Being gay IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO BEING A NAZI

WTF?

[struggle4progress]

9. I made no such claim of equivalence

[maxrandb]

11. Bullshit

The Retrumplicans nutbags do exactly what you did.

"Well, why should someone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding, we wouldn't make them bake a swastika cake".

So you're arguing that he should be able to refuse service to an African American family, because hell, we wouldn't make him serve Nazis?

Your argument would make sense if gay people were calling for all straight people to be sent to the ovens.

By your logic, we should be able to refuse everyone, because, "hey...we wouldn't make him serve Nazis".

It's a bullshit argument, and no matter your protest, you are indeed equivalating the two.

[struggle4progress]

12. I would distinguish the service aspect from the speech aspect

Some who offers to bake cakes generally should not be allowed refuse to bake cakes based on the recipient or the recipient's event but should be allowed (on free speech grounds) to refuse to add messages to the cake, if the baker does not want to promulgate those messages

Newspapers and television regularly refuse to sell ad time or space for messages they do not want to promulgate

I think no one can be forced to promulgate a message they do not want to promulgate: I can't see any social advantage in forcing a sign painter to prepare any sign whatsoever requested for anyone who can provide the money for the sign or in in forcing a printer to prepare any printed matter whatsoever requested for anyone who can provide the money for the printing

To take a different view there would simply be to say that whoever has the money controls the speech

We have courts because conflicts arise on such matters, sometimes because we have conflicting principles that cannot always be simultaneously honored. I prefer not to have such issues settled purely on grounds of the contents of the views

[FreeState]

13. Nice GOP talking points n/t

[struggle4progress]

14. It would be useful if you could provide a substantive standard for resolving the clash between

the principle that an offered service should be available to everyone and the principle that people cannot be forced to express views that they do not hold

It is, of course, understandable if you cannot provide such a standard

But if you do not provide anything in the direction of such a standard and instead insist on making persoinal remarks, the natural conclusion will be that you are simply trolling for a reaction

[FreeState]

18. Your using right wing talking points against LGBT persons

https://www.texasgop.org/religious-freedom-and-privacy/

The clash isn’t real - it’s manufactured anti gay extremism.

https://www.splcenter.org/20160211/religious-liberty-and-anti-lgbt-right

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/real-religious-leaders-mu_b_6971012?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHTMcB65LfmfuyFNg7DtFeotfPaMGkzBLfxY8ZyDe3R5GylCLNbhyRbunPI5jPmxqZ781hg8z7pz96Z0xX9UkV7uZV-46okASYJiVWxU0AIepO0_mcokARKx4qjxdzO0apfto5tuXXiLNIfs-ryU2J4OUYS_MRPeFtyUkBh5KbjI

[struggle4progress]

20. I don't regard this as a religious issue: I regard it as a matter of free speech

I do not wish to silence people with whom I disagree, nor do I wish to force other people to say things with which they do not agree

Standing up for such principles seems to me not only correct but also a matter of enlightened self-interest, since I have often be in positions where other people wanted to silence me, because they disagreed with me, or wanted to force me to parrot their views, because they could not imagine that any other views could be expressed

I do not think the printer has any right to refuse service to a potential customer, because of who the customer is: I do think a printer can refuse to print materials promoting views that the printer disagrees with

[TeamPooka]

16. I've put you down as "pro-discrimination" since that is the choice you made here.

[struggle4progress]

17. No, I don't think the printer is entitled to refuse service to a potential customer

based on who the customer is

I do think the printer is entitled to refuse to help potential customers promote particular messages, if the printer objects to the content of those messages

[tavernier]

21. I ran a private business and we could refuse service to anyone

A government run agency is a different story.

I don’t think that’s changed.

Although I think the printer is an ass, I think SCOTUS will vote in his favor.

[struggle4progress]

23. Public accommodation laws can limit allowable reasons to refuse service

[dsc]

19. would you think this was the case if the shirt that they refused to print

was for a festival that honored interracial marriage, or for a Bar Mitzvah? They are a t shirt business, t shirts often have messages. Where would this stop? Can teachers ban gay students? I put a lot of expressive content in to my teaching as many teachers do. What about doctors? Their job can be expressive. Surgeons consider themselves artists. This would literally gut discrimination laws, which is why, when this stuff was litigated about the Civil Rights Act this exception was dismissed out of hand.

[struggle4progress]

22. My argument here has nothing whatsoever to do with artistry or expressive content

A printer manufactures printed materials: although this is a matter of mass-production, the point of the materials is often to promote a message. Something similar applies to newspapers or television; and the same idea applies to a sign-painter

Free speech is often regarded as the ability to say what we want to say, but it must also include the ability to refrain from saying what we do not want to say

I would let printers refuse to print t-shirts honoring interracial marriage or celebrating a Bar Mitzvah. But if I knew there was such a printer in my town, I would regard the printer as a ignorant shizzhead, would refuse to patronize the printer, and would make sure everyone I knew was aware of the story

I would let generally allow printer to print what materials they saw fit to print. But if I knew there was a printer in my town who was printing (say) racist propaganda, I would again regard the printer as a ignorant shizzhead, would refuse to patronize the printer, and would make sure everyone I knew was aware of the story

If I were a printer, there would be certain materials I would want to refuse to print. Of course, if one has any sort of business, there will be some trade-off between being a PITA and actually having any customers at all

A surgeon, who regarded his/her work as primarily expressive, would in most cases not be considered competent to practice medicine. Perhaps plastic surgeons might provide an exception; but I still think a fellow would have to be a complete fool to take a surgeon to court to force that surgeon to operate on him

The law is not a suitable remedy for everything. Public pressure can be effective and informative. Thirty years ago, I had a disagreement with a friend about an upcoming KKK rally. The friend thought the rally should be banned. My view was that a counter-demonstration would be effective (and less problematic than an effort to ban the rally). The friend finally joined an effort to organize a counter-demonstration; and later came back to report happily that the thousand or so counter-demonstrators had somewhat outnumbered the eight or ten KKK followers who showed up

[MadDAsHell]

3. Won't be out of business in six months anyways?

History is on our side, customers will abandon him in droves.

[AllaN01Bear]

4. what religious rights are these people talking about ?

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

5. Long ago, the gay community had a phone-book of supporting businesses...

... and tended to use the same companies year after year.

NOT that I looked at the details concerning why 'this printer' was chosen this year, but it seems just 'Googling" and picking from random isn't the best.

SUPPORT THOSE WHO SUPPORT YOU! quid pro quo!

In a perfect world, yes, one should be able to print a page of each business ... lay it on the floor.. and choose the one the puppy doesn't piddle on....

[Initech]

6. I decided that if I had enough money...

I would start businesses that cater *EXCLUSIVELY* to gay weddings. I would love to see the religious rights' heads explode!

[FreeState]

10. That's not what the LGBT community is wanting

Siloing yourself into a limited market of buyers and sellers is not good for anyone.

[Iggo]

7. What religion is he, and is there a list of things they are against?

Or does he just get to make it up every time he doesn't want to do something?

[jmowreader]

15. The easiest way to solve this

Order an overrun of one shirt from a printer who doesn't worry about Catching Teh Gay from a piece of fabric. Deliver it, and a copy of the invoice, to the homophobic printer.