What I and some others here have been saying (stolen 2016 election)!

[cilla4progress]

Link to tweet

?s=19

[elocs]

1. Another cryptic title with little information,

but I don't click on tweet links.

[NCLefty]

50. "Media Bias" report on this site doesn't look too good.

"In review, the DC Tribune exhibits overt left wing bias through the extensive use of strong emotionally wording."

"Overall, we rate the DC Tribune far Left Biased based on story selection and wording that always favors the left and Mixed for factual reporting due to heavy spin of information that changes the context of stories and a failed fact check."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dc-tribune/

Report CLAIMS!... suspicious!... OMG! :p

[Phoenix61]

2. The article is inaccurate

The report stated the Russians were in a position to change or delete voter data but there was no indication that had occurred.

[triron]

4. No. You are ignoring them.

So did the Senate Intelligence committee (run by republicans).

[Atticus]

21. Yeah, that makes sense: they went to all the trouble to hack into our systems, risked discovery and

retaliation and got themselves into position to determine our election---and then did an Emily Letilla: "Never mind!"

[Cracklin Charlie]

38. This operation likely cost a fortune, as well.

These guys don’t spend fortunes without return on investment.

[triron]

3. Of course they did. I have known this for at least 2 years.

We have some naysayers around. Bet we hear from many of them.

This article doesn't mention the findings of Dr. Ron Baiman which showed the bias
toward Trump between the exit polls and actual vote tallies was astronomical.

[cilla4progress]

5. Over to you,

triron... Was hoping for you to weigh in!

Sorry, naysayers....those voting margins don't occur in nature!

[sharedvalues]

6. President broke law with Cohen to steal election

Plus he got help from Putin.

He’s illegitimate. Stolen election

[trueblue2007]

13. Trump A Traitor

[stopdiggin]

7. Nope. Once again ... Speculation.

from the (poorly written, and very speculative) article in the link

The Committee did not find that hackers actually deleted vote totals after the fact. Instead, they infiltrated the systems well in advance and altered or eliminated voter registration data — before would-be voters even made it to the polls.

and, in fact, the "Committee" didn't even offer THAT conclusion (altered or eliminated voter registration data). This is all inference about what "COULD" have happened -- and from there, "Well, of course, it DID happen."

[stopdiggin]

10. and from the same "source" 2 days ago

Infectious Disease Specialist Claims Trump’s Unhinged Behavior Is Due To Untreated STD
Filed under 'things you always suspected'.

Andrew Simpson, dctribune.org -- Sept 15, 2019

[uponit7771]

22. Unnnn, the article is pretty clear that hackers altered data that would affect votes in the end and

... its been well known that hackers didn't have to affect voter totals.

[stopdiggin]

25. I said the "Committee" didn't reach such a conclusion

the "article" was a poorly written piece of conjecture. To the extent the article "implied" the Senate Committee established altered data -- they lied, or were misinformed. But then .. check out the kind of "reporting" that also appears under this byline.

[uponit7771]

29. 👍🏼

[imaginary girl]

8. What about inaccurate counts?

I rarely see a reference to inaccurate vote counts, but until voting software companies allow for code inspections and/or audits, voting machines don't even need to be connected to the Internet or have tallies changed in order for cheating to occur. In fact, the more methods used, the easier it is to pass off as a glitch if something is discovered...

[brooklynite]

9. Nobody disputes that voter registration systems were accessed...

...Not the same a flipping actual voting results, as many here have claimed.

And, while this hacking could have arguably deleted voter registrations, the number you would have had to delete to block enough actual prospective voters would have been substantial. There's no evidence that this happened and no evidence that significantly more people showed up to vote and were turned away because their registrations couldn't be found.

[stopdiggin]

11. THANKS. again.

Yes, we knew about the hacking -- the systems and registers. And certainly people (and organizations) "influenced" the vote. Including Jim Comey, the Koch brothers, and plenty of good old apple pie Americans (who were all over fake news on social media -- with very little assist from the Russians). But we knew all that within months of the election. And apparently there needs to be a boogie man. Somewhere.

[saidsimplesimon]

12. brooklynite, I am

not aware of any challenges to the 2016 election, nor am I aware of any audits of votes cast.

It's just my opinion, I think Democrats should audit all election results as foreign and other influences have proven that hacking is real and profitable.

[brooklynite]

14. You're welcome to your opinion...

...but doesn't it say something that no candidate, campaign manager or Party official feels likewise?

[rockfordfile]

17. That's not true.

[brooklynite]

18. Name them...

[rockfordfile]

16. No way in hell would the U.S government admit to Russia kicking their butts

Russia was deep in the vote counting. They had a lot of help.

[brooklynite]

19. So you're coming up with a conspiracy theory to support a conspiracy theory...

I know campaign people and candidates in battleground States. I have more trust in them than you apparently do.

[uponit7771]

23. many here are not claiming vote flipping, many are claiming registration shaving which it looks

... like the exact thing happened.

There's no auditing of provisional ballots so we have no idea of evidence, but altering the vote count via shaving is probable

[stopdiggin]

33. and election officials wouldn't have been able to pick up on this?

Hundreds (actually thousands) of people showing up to vote that suddenly are no longer on the voter registration roles? And nobody noticed .. and nobody said anything? Again, there is simply no evidence of this HAPPENING (despite what some choose to believe)

[uponit7771]

45. Good point, it would depend on the county and is there a reporting method for it. There's no

... proof big foot was not in my back yard last night either ... come on, we know there's no concerted effort to track this so saying there's no proof doesn't have a lot of weight

[stopdiggin]

47. almost every state has poll watchers

probably not looking for bigfoot .. but I suspect they would notice if one showed up? equally sure they would notice and report if there were masses of people showing up to vote and being turned away. it hasn't been reported, because it didn't happen.

[triron]

48. Doesn't require 'masses' of people being turned away. Their provisional ballots

are just not counted. Just part of the vote manipulation as well.

[stopdiggin]

52. and the poll watchers have no idea that provisional ballots aren't showing up anywhere?

and it would require that "masses" of provisional ballots were being cast -- also well outside the norm, and a huge red flag -- and also NOT being reported. and in any event (if true), this would be old style Chicago politics ballot stuffing (and/or disappearing) -- and still has not an iota to do with Russians manipulating voter rolls and voter registration. first they're manipulating the vote tally -- next they're siphoning off voter registration -- then they're bringing in high school kids to tamper with the machines -- now it's fraud involving local election officials and provisional ballots -- if nothing else, you have to hand it to these people for having all the bases covered!

[uponit7771]

53. Nope, it was on Rachael one evening I WISH I had recorded it as proof. The provisional ballots

... are sent out and it depends on the individual to bring them back.

No one tracks what happens to the ballot, there's no audit and no one is watching for anomalies or spikes in provisional handouts.

Also, someone intending to break in and do mischief then break in and not do mischief is the outlier thought not the reverse.

[stopdiggin]

58. wrong

a "provisional" ballot is cast at the polls .. and counted after verification as valid. Voting by mail (which I've done for years) and "absentee" ballots are not the same thing as provisional. For one, you're not going to receive a ballot in the mail if you're not registered (which kind of goes to the point of the "provisional" argument). And absentee and "vote by mail" ballots are returned in secure envelopes through the USPS .. and are most definitely accounted for. If you don't put it in the mail, you didn't vote (same as if you didn't go to the polls). No chicanery involved. Unless you think the Postal Service is "disappearing" all these sealed ballots? Don't know what Rachel was talking about .. but poll watchers are definitely aware of provisional voting .. it's one of the things they're looking for, and large numbers are going to be reported. That's why these people are there volunteering their time. If something funny is going on .. they're going to sing! Currently the only singing going on is by the conspiracists.

[uponit7771]

62. "...and counted after verification..." again ... someone has to verify them and no one keeps count

[stopdiggin]

66. provisional ballots are NOT great in number, that's the point

If you're trying to identify where, "they're stealing the election!" you're going to have to find another place to hang your hat. And then .. back to the original theme (OP), "See .. the Russians really DID do it." And, of course, the Russians have absolutely nothing to do with counting provisional ballots! So, I guess .. any hat, and any hook, will do?

[lsewpershad]

15. Can an illegitimate

"Non-president" be impeached?

[hughee99]

20. Really?

There is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even rig America’s elections, in part because they’re so decentralized and the numbers of votes involved.

[uponit7771]

24. You don't have the rig the count just shave the registration state wide. Seeing how wide open GA

... state electoral systems were that would be easy for any info sec student.

Seems a LOT of red states systems are open

[hughee99]

26. So in Georgia, you'd have more than 200k people who tried to vote only to find they were no longer

on the rolls. It seems like that shouldn't be impossible to show.

[uponit7771]

30. Hmmm, they can get a baseline for provisional ballots per county then see if there were anomalies

... possible.

[Hoyt]

34. Would like to see a citation for that. There were reports of a few people, but

turned out they were at wrong precinct. I believe, even those, were allowed to cast provisional ballots.

I’ll even take a citation for 10K being turned away from polls in GA.

No doubt that Russians helped trump, as did Comey, lies disgruntled voters who protested something by not voting for Clinton. But these allegations are wrong..

I’ll apologize if you have a credible cite.

[hughee99]

35. My point is, Trump won by 200k votes. For the voter rolls to have been hacked resulting in a Trump

win, you must have had more than 200k voters, who planned to vote, and tried to vote, but weren't able to. If that many voters tried and failed to vote, it shouldn't be hard to find a lot of them. To the best of my knowledge (and apparently yours) there's no evidence that that many people were prevented from voting.

I wasn't asserting that it happened, just logically following the argument.

[Hoyt]

36. My apologies.. Read too quickly after a stiff bourbon. Agree completely.

[triron]

49. If multiple pathways are taken to change vote tallies this is an incomplete

answer.

[hughee99]

57. Is there any proof ANY path was taken to change vote tallies?

I’ll note this article specifically says there was not. The story is about how people were prevented from voting in the first place.

[uponit7771]

54. Statewide? Not at all, also was there a call out for them post election? No ... no one gave a damn

... about provisional ballot anomolies.

[hughee99]

56. Are you suggesting that there were 200k people in GA

Who were eligible to vote, who wanted to vote, who tried to vote, and were denied even a provisional ballot? Counting the provisional ballots, Trump still won by 200k in Georgia.

[delisen]

60. The Diebold touchscreen machines are

easily hackable, using simple methods and there is no paper trail and therefore no way to recount.

We have incredible voter suppression techniques used-dropping people from rolls, throwing out absentee ballots for no good reason, making it difficult for poor, rural voters to apply for voter id.
Between the machines and the suppression techniques it is easy to suppress or not accurately count 200,000 votes without much notice.
Additionally people in some, impoverished rural areas are not willing to complains due to fear of retaliation.

[hughee99]

69. She story was supposed to be presenting some evidence

But your latest post seems it could be summed up as “well, there wouldn’t be any evidence, but it could have happened”.

[delisen]

71. This is a major issue in Georgia

Possibly you are unaware of the ongoing investigations and issues. Georgia's and Florida issues go back to election 2000 at least.

<https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-a-criminal-investigation-in-georgia-set-an-ominous-tone-for-african-american-voters_n_5d4c3925e4b01e44e476bda1>

<https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/raskin-brian-kemp-georgia-voting-problems-investigation-804646/>

<https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/10/how-dismantling-voting-rights-act-helped-georgia-discriminate-again/572899/>

The ongoing investigation by FBI re Florida hacking-much still "classified."

<https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2019/04/27/marco-rubio-fbi-kept-successful-hacking-secret-from-florida-elections-officials/>

[delisen]

28. It takes very little effort to rig the vote in Georgia.

The entire state has easy,y hackable machines with no paper trail.

It has taken many democrats 18 years to admit this is true.

Gore won election 2000; Clinton won election 2016.

The evidence keeps mounting--and the FBI has told many officials to nt not say more because the investigation is ongoing.

[hughee99]

32. My post wasn't actually my own words. It was a statement from someone I trust

and understands the election process.

Do you supposed the FBI coerced him into lying?

[Hoyt]

46. That will change for 2020 election. A new system, with paper trail, has been purchased.

So how did the fail to take it from Obama or 2018 mid-term. If there was ever an election where white wingers would pull out all stops, it was 2008.

When we vote — for Democrats, rather than protest votes — we win.

[delisen]

59. The new system has problems; lawsuit filed

The denial of voting irregularities is what defeats us as Democrats

The new system in Georgia is under attack, and rightly so. It was chosen by the same Republican Party that defended the old Diebold easily-hackable, no paper trail machines.

<https://www.newsweek.com/new-lawsuit-may-scrap-georgias-reformed-voting-system-ahead-2020-primary-1454866>
Part of the issue is that the voter cannot verify the vote in the new system.

I have been hearing the same refrain about all we have to do is get out the vote-since before Election 2000. It is just not true and in any case we haven't been getting out the vote from 2010 onward. In 2008 we had the Senate,, the House, reasonably strong showing in state legislatures, and money in the bank, That is what won the presidency.

During the years we were in power we lost all that. By 2016 the Democratic Party was broke, we had lost about a thousand seats around the country and Republicans held the House and Senate. We ceded the right to reapportionment to the Republicans in 2020 by losing badly in that critical mid-term. and in many states it became impossible for many Democrats to win races.By 2016 we could not even get a hearing for a relatively moderate Supreme Court candidate.

The white power movement strengthened enormously during the years we were in power.

Republican secretaries of state increased and became emboldened and able to increase voter suppression around the country in the years we were in power.

What we have to do is guarantee ourselves free, fair, verifiable elections I do urge you and everyone to get out the vote but unless we also face the fact that Russia interfered in 2016 specifically to defeat our candidate.and and is capable of interfering in 2020 (they may not decide to back Trump again-but other countries may); and that the Republican party made incredible gains in voter suppression from 2010 onward, that voting systems are vulnerable and subject to criminal interference, we will keep being ineffectual.

(I myself was prevented from voting in one election yer due to not receiving a ballot from our Republican Secretary of State. It can happen again, but in any case If I vote absentee, I have no way of knowing whether my ballot will be rejected on spurious grounds-signature unreadable or that it doesn't seen to match voter signature on file).

[questionseverything]

27. trump "won" in mich by less than 11,000 votes

there were 40,000 undervotes in Detroit alone

hand counted paper ballots in full public view would make it so everyone was sure

[stopdiggin]

37. which the Russians had nothing to do with

and "undervote" means people showed up at the polls .. checked their names off on the registration rolls .. and cast a ballot. So then .. the Ruskies didn't really have anything to do with it. Right?

(by the way .. got nothing against paper ballots .. monitoring polls .. auditing machines pre and post .. state/fed security coordination .. or anything else that we can come up with to enhance security, and accuracy. my beef is with unsubstantiated claims. if you want to take a look at who's diddling with voter registration .. take a good look at your statehouse. and they're not doing it under the cover of darkness, or with whizz bang technology. it's all right out in the open, with good old strong armed politics.)

[Hoyt]

31. Got any reports of significant number of voters being turned away at polls?

We had a handful in my state, but turned out they went to wrong precinct. They let them vote anyway.

[Takket]

39. I asked this exact same question the other day...

This is where the “they purged the rolls!” Argument always falls apart for me. Voter suppression is real but this isn’t part of it. You can’t tell me tens of thousands of people could be denied the right to vote and it doesn’t end up on the news somewhere.

[Hoyt]

43. Agree. I've been purged several times when I moved, didn't vote there, but

voted in new location.

Yes, voter suppression definitely occurs, but not like that. Even in my red state you have to go without voting for 7 years and failed to respond to notifications sent to your old address. In fact, I think it’s 9 years now, and you can still cast a provisional ballot in many cases. It’s so easy to check your registration.

[Blue Owl]

40. K&R

Diaper Donnie done a bad, ba-a-a-a-d-d, thing...

[ElementaryPenguin]

41. Yes! I've been saying this since the day after the election. Exit Polls

in swing states that had Hillary winning big - final tallies all skewed for Trump in inexplicable, unprecedented ways! Trump's own pollsters were stunned and figured something rotten was afoot!

[ElementaryPenguin]

42. And, of course, Mueller said THEY DID NOT EVEN LOOK AT THIS...

Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Because someone else was.

Who was that?

And what were the results and where are they?

Even Chairman Adam Schiff is evidently not allowed to know!

[Hoyt]

44. A lot of ignorant white wing racists -- trump voters, in other words -- try to hide it.

[brooklynite]

64. And yet Hillary didn't claim the votes were flipped...

...nor did the Democratic Party Chairs.

On the other hand, I saw sloppy preparation for the GOTV operation in Ohio, based on the Clinton campaign's flawed assumption (confirmed by two Party Chairs I know) that if you voted for Obama you'd vote for Clinton, so you didn't need to be contacted.

Did Russia try to encourage votes for Trump. Yes. But largely, they did it by building on negative feelings that voters had already.

[Kablooie]

51. It likely to be stolen again next year.

There is a concerted effort by Republicans to prevent securing election systems and Trump had private meetings with Putin and could have handed over secret information to help manipulate our next election.
Trump is likely to win iagain in November along with a large contingent of Republican Congressmen to protect him if Dems simply trust the system.
I hope there is awareness of this because if Democrats believe it will be a fair election and the people will choose, they are living in Dreamland.

[uponit7771]

55. +1, Red Don effectively called off the 2020 election when he said openly he'd cheat by welcoming aid

... from foreign government !!

Hell, even Hitler was put into office legally and with little protest from the left at that time. They just thought the right would contain him and they did no such thing, de ja vu

Also, Trump can lose and Moscow Mitch keeps the senate and we're still in the same place we are now.

Paper ballot and paper ballot count is bout the one way I see this happening

[delisen]

61. Exactly-altho Putin may decide to dump Trump

Putin hated H. Clinton because she stood up against him and for human rights, and was strong on sanctions.

If we were to nominate a candidate who would go easy on Putin it is possible that he may not interfere-but I hope we won't.

[brooklynite]

63. "We're DOOMED!!!"

[Captain Stern]

65. No, it wasn't 'stolen'. I wish it was.

There is no evidence that the Russians were able to access any systems that would have enabled them to change vote tallies. None.

There is no evidence that thousands of people that showed up to vote were denied the opportunity to vote because they had been 'unregistered' by hackers. None.

I actually wish this is what had happened because then that would mean I live in a country where Hillary Clinton had been elected in 2016, and the actual results were altered to give trump a 'win'.

But there's no evidence, whatsoever, that that's what happened. It's not just me that thinks so. Hillary Clinton thinks so too. So does Barack Obama. So Does Bernie Sanders. So Does Elizabeth Warren. So does Joe Biden. NONE of them have ever claimed that. (and if all those folks are part of the conspiracy too, then we're totally fucked, and voting is never going to matter again)

The Russians influenced our elections by fooling our fellow citizens into voting for trump. The truth is, we live in a country where there is a significant portion of our population that is easily, and willingly, duped. Those folks were out there in 2016, and they're still out there.

[ElementaryPenguin]

67. Captain, you have NO WAY of knowing that there is "no evidence...

that the Russians were able to access any systems that would have enabled them to change vote tallies."

[Captain Stern]

68. Fair enough....I have no way of knowing that evidence doesn't exist.

But, I do know that it hasn't been presented here.

I also know it hasn't been presented in the media.

I also know that no major figure in the Democratic Party has made any claim of having ever seen such evidence. Ever.

Even Hillary Clinton, the person most directly affected by the results of the election, has never claimed vote tallies were changed. Ever.

Is Hillary Clinton covering for the Russians? Is she uninformed? Is she in on the plot?....Like I said earlier, if the likes of Obama, Clinton, Warren, and Sanders are all in on the the big coverup, then we might as well never vote again.

[brooklynite]

70. So, as with religious evangelicals it's our job to prove it DIDN'T happen...

...rather than your job to prove it did.