Fact Check: Trump's claims about Biden and Ukraine - no there there

[kpete]

asked if anyone had done a law-based deep dive into the allegations that Biden somehow did something legally impermissible (i.e., conflict of interest) by being involved in the Ukraine prosecutor negotiations. I decided to look into it. BLUF: No /Tweetstorm

First off, the general financial conflict of interest laws that generally prohibit Federal employees from participating in matters in which they have financial interests (namely 18 USC.208) expressly do not apply to the Vice President (nor the President). 18 USC 202(c)

Moreover, w/r/t family members of executive branch employees, the primary financial conflict of interest statute only prohibits employees from participating in particular matters in which the employee, their spouse, or their MINOR children have a financial interest. 18 USC 208(a)

So, even assuming for the sake of argument that the conflict of interest statute applied to the VP & even if the departure of the prosecutor were to have had an impact on Hunter’s finances (which all reputable reports suggest was an impossibility given the timeline of events)…

the VP’s involvement in discussions re: the prosecutor still would not have constituted a criminal conflict of interest because Hunter was obviously not a MINOR child at the time.

That said, if the Federal conflict of interest laws did apply to the VP, the fact that a criminal conflict didn’t exist under the statute wouldn’t have ended the legal analysis…

Federal employees are also subject to Standards of Ethical Conduct, which are set out in broader regulations issued by the Office of Govt Ethics. 5 CFR 2635.

Under the Standards of Ethical Conduct, Federal employees generally should recuse themselves from participating in certain matters even if there is no prohibited financial conflict of interest under 18 USC 208.

Under 5 CFR 2635.502, an employee is generally required to recuse when there is a “particular matter involving specific parties, the employee has a “covered relationship” (such as a close family) and a reasonable person would question their impartiality.

Applying this here, even if it were true (its not!) that the prosecutor was investigating the company Biden’s son was involved with at the time that Biden was engaged in discussions re: the prosecutor’s removal, its not clear that this rule would be directly applicable here…

The rule, by its terms, only applies to “particular matters involving specific parties,” which is intentionally narrow and applies to specific proceedings affecting the legal rights of the parties or transactions between identified parties. 5 CFR 2640.102(1).

Examples of such matters are particular contracts, grants, product approval applications, litigation, investigations, etc. Here, it seems a stretch to say that discussions re whether the prosecutor should remain in his position was a “particular matter involving specific parties”

Moreover, even if you stretched & decided it met that definition, the particular rule would not apply directly here anyway, because Biden’s son (nor even the company) was most definitely NOT a party to the matter at issue (whether the prosecutor should remain in his position)…

A caveat: there’s a catch-all provision at 5 CFR 2635.502(a)(2), acknowledging that even in other circumstances not addressed in the reg, an employee should generally recuse anytime their participation in a matter would reasonably raise a question re: their impartiality.

If Biden’s son was involved with a company under active investigation by the Ukrainian prosecutor (again, apparently this is not true!)…

I think nearly any Federal ethics official would have cited this regulation and advised the VP NOT to get involved in discussions regarding the future of the Ukrainian prosecutor, even if only to avoid creating the appearance of a potential conflict

Even still, this is very much a judgment call and even under this incredibly-strained counter-factual hypothetical, the VP’s involvement still would NOT have been a criminal violation.

In short, even if the VP wasn’t exempt from these conflict of interest laws, and even if the facts were other than they actually appear to be, Biden’s behavior still would have been lawful. /End @waltshaub @NormEisen @RWPUSA


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1175143530425139201.html
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2019/09/21/ken-vogel-has-a-bullshit-story-to-tell-that-will-help-the-president-and-he-would-appreciate-it-if-the-president-and-rudy-giuliani-would-shut-up-because-they-are-screwing-up-his-work/

[Wellstone ruled]

1. Look know further than

Ken Vogel of the NYTimes and Breitbart for this bullshit story. Said six months ago,there would be a false Flag Stories hammering all of our Candidates. Biden is the focus at this moment.

Malcolm Nance said this would happen,all part of the GRU disinformation unit to salt the press with false stories in order to protect their Asset in the Oval.

Was it not the same Media Sources who went scorched earth Clinton? Never to retract their bullshit.

[lunatica]

3. The thing about Biden that works in his favor

is that a great number of people will dismiss it based on Biden’s reputation for telling the truth.

Most of us believe him, and he reinforces his reputation daily. He’s just an honest man, an intelligent honest man.

[Wellstone ruled]

4. Yes he is honest.

Knew from the get go,we would see the so called D.C.Pundits that hammered Obama would once again play the same cards ,only it is his Running mate.

Sad to say,there is a small group of people who call themselves Journalist,who are so far from that true meaning. As a Friend who taught Journalism classes part time at the U of Missouri would say,it is easier to write fiction than the facts. And it is your job to tell the truth and not print false hoods or miss truths,or just plain out right lies.

[lunatica]

2. This is really good to know.

And timely.

[Pompoy]

5. Come on, stop giving credence to this stuff.

The Ukrainians had already shelved that investigation long before Biden visited.
The Biden visit was a concerted effort by the IMF, the EU and the US government to demand that Ukraine clean up it's act of post Soviet rampant corruption, before they would get loans and further aid.
It happens all the time, they impose demands like that to everybody, like demanding Greece reforms its pensions etc.

[Karadeniz]

6. Thanks for taking the time to look all this up for us!

[UTUSN]

7. K&R