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trof

(54,256 posts)
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 07:58 PM Sep 2019

According to Article III of the U.S. constitution we do NOT have to be at war to charge treason.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_3:_Treason

If we conclude that Russia is an 'enemy', then Donnie Two-Scoops has surely 'adhered' to them.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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According to Article III of the U.S. constitution we do NOT have to be at war to charge treason. (Original Post) trof Sep 2019 OP
It depends on how "enemy" is defined. euphorb Sep 2019 #1
Putin is taking damaging covert actions against us. That's enough to make him an enemy. eppur_se_muova Sep 2019 #2
Correct TwilightZone Sep 2019 #5
Interference in our election to install a Russian asset seems like an act of war to me. Flaleftist Sep 2019 #8
That's not enough. euphorb Sep 2019 #9
Russia's calculated cyber interference and malicious meddling Golden Raisin Sep 2019 #3
"enemy" legally means an actively hostile party. TwilightZone Sep 2019 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Sep 2019 #6
Treason is like Porno Baked Potato Sep 2019 #7

euphorb

(279 posts)
1. It depends on how "enemy" is defined.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 08:08 PM
Sep 2019

I believe it is generally taken to mean a country we are at war with. That makes sense, because otherwise the parameters would be too slippery.

eppur_se_muova

(36,247 posts)
2. Putin is taking damaging covert actions against us. That's enough to make him an enemy.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 08:54 PM
Sep 2019

You don't attack your allies, or neutral states.

Whether or not we believe they are our enemy, *they* believe they are. Good enough.

Flaleftist

(3,473 posts)
8. Interference in our election to install a Russian asset seems like an act of war to me.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 10:39 PM
Sep 2019

It's certainly something that should label them an enemy.

euphorb

(279 posts)
9. That's not enough.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 10:52 PM
Sep 2019

Any first-year law student knows that a fundamental principle of criminal law is that a crime must be precisely and narrowly defined; each term must be objectively clear and not a matter of opinion. That’s why treason requires a declared war. Otherwise, reasonable people can differ on whether a country is an enemy — the definition would not be sufficiently objective. Sorry, I know you would all like this to constitute treason (and so would I), but it doesn’t work that way.

Golden Raisin

(4,605 posts)
3. Russia's calculated cyber interference and malicious meddling
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 09:01 PM
Sep 2019

in our elections could certainly be considered warfare. Cold, perhaps, as opposed to Hot. I've frequently maintained that the Russians finally won the Cold War, all without firing a single bullet or dropping a single bomb. Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, etal. all chortling, chuckling from that great dacha in the sky while downing vodka shots. We have a compromat puppet installed in the Oval Office, malignant and destructive 24/7 chaos and daily deconstruction of our Constitution, Laws, Elections and Norms.

TwilightZone

(25,430 posts)
4. "enemy" legally means an actively hostile party.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 09:03 PM
Sep 2019

And is in the "Spoils of War" section of the War and National Defense section of the code.

"According to 50 USCS § 2204 [Title 50. War and National Defense; Chapter 39. Spoils of War], enemy of the United States means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States;"

https://definitions.uslegal.com/e/enemy-of-the-united-states/

It means a declared enemy involved in an active war. Just because we think Russia is an enemy (an assertion that I agree with) doesn't mean that treason applies. It didn't apply to the Rosenbergs during the Cold War, specifically because it wasn't a declared war against a declared enemy.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/americans-have-forgotten-what-treason-actually-means-how-it-can-ncna848651

Response to trof (Original post)

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