General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat to do with nude or explicit photos when a relationship ends?
It's simple. If they are of the other person, you hand them over to that person to do with as the other person wishes. If they are of the two of you, you destroy them and let the other person know that you did. If they are of you, do whatever you wish with them.
There are no other alternatives. You don't hold them over the other person as blackmail material. You don't make them public to embarrass or harm the other person.
You were in a relationship. It ended. That happens. At one time, you liked that person, at least, so you owe that person at least to not harm him or her when the relationship ends.
I do not understand any other action in such a situation. Even if the relationship ended badly or you were left hurting, the relationship existed and deserves respect for its existence.
I've been in that situation, and did as I described above. I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
I don't get it when people do hurtful things in such circumstances. I never will get it.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)The presumed love of your life might turn out to be a duplicitous asshole. I have no experience with naked photos of myself (I spared the world from that sight), but I do have experience with duplicitous assholes.
hlthe2b
(102,236 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)Digital photography makes possible (and irretrievable) the instantaneous, worldwide distribution of your personal porn. If you intend to allow or take such photos you should assume they'll be on the Internet someday, and think twice.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Polaroid photo. She and a friend had taken pictures of each other to give their boyfriends. When we broke up, I gave it back to her. As an adult, there have been photos, as well. People do that sometimes, in the belief that the relationship will always persist.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Turning over photos and negatives mean nothing.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)However, nothing has to be shared digitally. If it is not, it can go away, so my advice stands. Of course, once it escapes into the online world, there's no going back.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And even if no one shares them on purpose, there's never certainty that the photos have been completely destroyed.
GumboYaYa
(5,942 posts)But not just naked pics, pics doing bong hits or drugs of any type are just as dangerous. I may have done some questionable things in my life....I did tend bar in New Orleans for five years, but no one has any pics of it.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,515 posts)of Mom online or anywhere else. None were ever taken. I never trusted anyone that much.
My children have expressed their gratitude.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)In the heat of the moment.
We live in a digital society were people document almost every aspect of their lives.
What scares me is those that hide their phones/devices to film these intimate moments.
SWBTATTReg
(22,114 posts)this kind of thing...crazy
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Doesn't it seem somewhat silly that nobody is going after the guy in this instance, but, instead, are telling the women that they need to behave a particular way. Fuck that. Take nudes if you want. And stop being an asshole that shares them with people. That seems more empowering.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)Its the ultimate humiliation for a young girl to have her naked photos broadcast all over social media where everyone at her high school can see them. Kids have committed suicide over it; its no laughing matter at all.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)No risque pictures. Ever. This sh*t's been causing problems since the camera was invented. Life is long, people change, situations change.
Beringia
(4,316 posts)should be the one who is shamed. But probably there are still women who don't mind being with a bad person like that.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)we see more often that we should.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)If it's not small, Photoshop is your friend.
central scrutinizer
(11,648 posts)Never post any explicit pictures anywhere on line even if the relationship is strong.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)more serious, in many ways. Fortunately, by the time digital imaging and the online world came long after any such things were done. Once such images or videos are not solely in one person's personal possession, there's no going back. It's a lot more dangerous now than it once was.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)well for me in the last 20 years. Second, if you do have a relationship keep cameras out of the bedroom or whatever other place you might enjoy sexual activity. Now isn't that easy?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)People do all sorts of stupid things during their lives. They shouldn't have to suffer for that for their entire lives, though.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)me in all my nekkid splendor! What we experience in life mostly comes down to good or bad choices.
Some people shouldn't have to suffer and some people should. Whoever said that life is fair is mistaken, so it's up to each of us to create the best life possible for ourselves, I think.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)People can't use something that you were never a part of against you.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)you assume the risk. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that compromising pictures can end up in the wrong hands. To me this is basic. Sometimes you can't do what you feel like doing because of the possible result. Personally, I'd like to jump in the next police car I see idling, hit the lights and sirens and jet off down the street. I don't, because I might get in big trouble. Such is life.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I was very much in love with her at the time, but I was shocked at the suggestion. It really made me wonder. I made it clear that wasnt something I wanted to do.
I ended up being so grateful for that decision of mine. She turned out not to be such a nice person. I later found out she had videos of numerous hook-ups, but thank god she never had one of me.
Just the suggestion of such a thing was a turn off for me.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Still, one shouldn't have to suffer consequences for not being wise at one time or another.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Ive suffered consequences for stupid decisions - fair or not - I deserved it.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)what she had planned is now in the garbage heap. It's too bad. I happened on one of the photos that was printed in a British tabloid. It's really pretty innocuous. I'm a little surprised she took the step she took, but that was her decision. The man who released the photos should live in public shame for the rest of his life.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)What's wrong with just knowing you did it and having fond memories of it?
It seems to me the primary point of the photos is to show them to someone else who wasn't there at the time. And, if that's the case, why be surprised if other people see the photos you took? And if that's not the case, still why be surprised if third parties see the photos you took since that's often what happens to photographs ... other people can see them?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't get it, maybe it's because my opinion of human nature is not particularly favorable. Also, I don't even like having my picture taken with clothes ON, yet alone with them off. I have never taken a selfie. It's not that I am awful looking, it's just that I am extremely self-critical. I don't even like mirrors.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)that, unless you take a picture of it on your own phone, somehow you didn't really fully experience the event.
I'm always amused when I see people at an event that's being covered on television holding up their phones and so busy photographing everything that happens they certainly can't really be enjoying the moment. I wonder why they don't just get one of the gazillions of photos being taken or set their dvd to record it?
Maybe that's how people feel about intimacy now. Unless they have pictures of it, it didn't really have the whole experience.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)Even before the rise of camera phones I read an article about a group of people who were attending a major football game in a luxury suite box.
The writer noted that he and the older crowd were watching the game below them through the window in front of them. All the younger people were staring at the television screen with their backs to the actual game.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I usually try to be the old lady.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)Actually I'm pretty close to being that old lady. Okay, maybe not quite that old, but getting closer every year.
I love browsing the internet, and I use a computer that I built myself, but my iPhone stays in my purse and I rarely use it. I enjoy the convenience of being able to make a phone when necessary, especially since phone booths are rare, but I don't do any of the selfie or filming of life around me. I enjoy the moment.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)photo or a video of it.
A lot of people live their lives as though life is nothing but a series of photo ops.
I think of all the experiences that people don't inhabit in the moment because they are too busy videotaping or photographing them, so that those special events are never experienced unmediated.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,340 posts)Don't be passing up profit opportunities. You some kind of socialismist or something?!?
Ask yourself, "What would George Popadopoulos do?"
Oops! My hat fell off for a minute. Red waves all around me.
MurrayDelph
(5,294 posts)who after going through a rough divorce was feeling unattractive.
To help convince her otherwise, I took of bunch of "cheesecake" photos: bikini, miniskirts, unbuttoned blouse with all the good parts covered, but no actual nudity.
Or so I thought. When I got the negatives back, I discovered one shot had accidentally captured more of her than either of us had intended.
She's owned the negatives (and all prints of that shot) for 22 years.
TheBlackAdder
(28,189 posts).
That was the only time I took pictures of a GF/spouse, which were with her consent.
It's just stuff you don't need risking getting out there.
.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I have a wonderful marriage and this idea never occurred to either of us. Of course, we are old now so we are out of touch with what people do in relationships. I never even kept love letters (I had some with my first husband but they were pretty tame and of course once I we were divorced I put them in a bag and put the bag in the dumpster. Even if someone had read them they would be pretty standard stuff by today's standards...
braddy
(3,585 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)back in 2000, I found some topless photos my ex-wife had dared me to take back in 1997 or 1998 in happier times. They were stashed in a box in the basement of my home at the time. These were before digital photographs, so had the negatives as well. I threw them and the negatives out. While it wasn't a terribly bitter/angry divorce and we didn't have kids - thankfully - we lost touch with each other after 2001 or so, so didn't really have a way to reach out to her about the pictures (who knows, maybe she would have wanted them?)
tandem5
(2,072 posts)century than we do in the 21st. Cloud distribution is far more insidious than most people realize and low level control over the deletion of data (most especially on mobile devices) is, for the average consumer, black box. To make matters worse it's not simply a matter of opting out -- you have to first identify cloud sharing that may not fall under recognizable categories. For instance if you have a windows machine the built-in malware protection, unless you explicitly opt out, will upload your personal data to their service, if it deems it an unknown threat. You might not give this a second thought, but it is widely accepted that Russia uses Kaspersky's antivirus to dragnet for classified information. In the case of Katie Hill, undoubtedly she was the victim of her husband's malice, but if you and your partner utilize electronic technology to share intimate information, it should be understood that the trust relationship involves three parties not two: you, your partner, and the digital infrastructure.
Wounded Bear
(58,648 posts)and I think most people would follow it, though those who won't follow it won't listen, sadly.
I suspect we're in a phase of undergoing the very painful exercise of redefining our attitudes towards nudity in general. We really need to get over our Puritan roots, they are pretty untenable. Much like the "outing" of LGBTQ folks of the last generation, I think we're growing a generation of people for whom nudity will become much more of a non-issue.
In many ways, it's the 'forbidden fruit' syndrome. That which is forbidden becomes more desirable. If public nudity were legal and more common, things like this wouldn't matter.
Back to the OT, though, this deals with matters of personal privacy and violations of that. The internet has released the inner troll in many, many people.
lostnfound
(16,177 posts)You use Facebook 😆
I feel exactly the same way. You loved someone once , you honor the gift forever. You dont succumb to demeaning feelings of revenge.
I rebel against the tyranny of time.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)but, way too many men (and some women) do succumb to those feelings of revenge... especially with digital photography and email/text and other things like Snapchat/WhatsApp around. It's very easy for somebody that is very upset to just hit "send" - back in the old days (see my post in this thread), if you wanted do get revenge on somebody, you'd need to bring the negatives in to a place to development the photographs and then manually put them in the mail.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)He had quite a collection by the time he was fired for trying to make contact w/ one of the young women.
question everything
(47,476 posts)Because they will become public. If not by your former significant other, by hackers.
For that matter - you should realize that anything you post online can be made public.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Never had a girlfriend in my whole life who would have even entertained the conversation of being preserved on film...
mn9driver
(4,425 posts)Especially using an internet enabled device. The potential for disaster is just a finger swipe away. Think, people.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)In the mid 1980s, I took a film-making class at the local community college. I did that because I was writing a marine biology paper about a tide pool fish that changed colors depending on the background where it was. The behavior wasn't described in the literature for that species, so it was a cool thing to document. I needed to make a video to show the process in action, and I didn't own a camcorder at the time. So, I took the class so I could do a close-up video of the fish changing colors. But that's a different story.
Most of the students were much younger than I was and were trying to learn "artistic" film-making. I was an exception, since I was trying to learn how to do documentary nature videography. I reallly had to figure it out for myself, but I was a still photographer, so it wasn't that difficult.
Anyhow the class ran for a semester. The last class of the semester was a showcase for all the students, who presented their finished videos. Mine, sadly, got a ho-hum response, but polite applause, although it was a minor hit with my marine biology acquaintances. Anyhow, most of the videos were beginner artistic creations. The entire class, along with friends, etc., showed up for the viewing. Polite applause was the order of the day.
Toward the end of the student presentations, a 20-something woman who was one of the students showed her video. Keep in mind that it was shown on a 36" CRT TV. It was the 80s, after all. Anyhow, her video was a bunch of people her age dancing on a beach in the light of a full moon, wearing diaphanous robes. A musical score accompanied the video. When it ended, she got the polite applause we all got from the students and guests who had shown up. After each presentation, the budding film-maker took questions. However, something happened to disrupt the Q&A for that film-maker.
About 30 seconds after her beach dancing video ended, something else came on the screen. Apparently, she had recorded the video on a VHS tape that already had content on it. Suddenly, the scene changed. The black screen became a video of her and her boyfriend, who was also in attendance, engaged in a sexual act. The audience reacted with a sort of shock, followed by laughter. The young woman was standing there expecting questions, and didn't get it for about 30 seconds. She turned around, saw what was on the TV, and hit the stop button as fast as she could.
Then, she turned back to face the audience, her face bright red. After about 10 seconds, she smiled at the audience and shrugged. More laughter ensued, and she sat down next to her boyfriend, who seemed unsure what to do. The next presenter stepped up and showed the next video.
It was a different time. After all the videos had been shown, to the polite applause of the gathered audience, the class broke up and set to the snacks and beverages that had been brought. The film-maker of the accidental sex video and her boyfriend stuck around and everyone laughed some more about what had happened.
Bottom line: it was not that big a deal, really. It was a mistake, and pretty much everyone just shrugged it off, just as the young woman did. Stuff happens.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)This issue only occurred once in my life.
During college in the mid-1970s, my then girlfriend and I spent a wonderful afternoon drinking wine, smoking a joint and making out. I had this little Kodak Instamatic camera with those flash cubes and we took some pictures of the two of us in flagrante.
By the next day, I had forgotten about them and must have thrown the film cartridge in a drawer.
Ten years later, I found the cartridge but didnt remember where it was from. I dropped it off at a one-hour developer and when I picked up the pictures, I was puzzled by the quizzical look the clerk gave me.
Needless to say, I was startled to discover the pictures!
So I called the ex-girlfriend, with whom I remain friendly with even till now, and told her about the discovery. We met for a drink and I gave her the prints and the negatives. She sipped her wine as she flipped through the photos. After a few minutes, she asked if I was free for the evening. Since I was married at the time, I had to decline the invitation.
Another ten years later, she mailed one print to me and wrote that she had burned the rest so her husband and kids would never find them. After a moment of reminiscing, I did the same for much the same reasons.
With the advent of digital imagery, its far too easy to lose control of ones content. There are too many people who have strange behaviors. One cannot provide such levers of influence for people who dont share the morals expressed by MineralMan in his OP.
IronLionZion
(45,433 posts)I've never understood the cruelty and vindictive nature of some folks. I deleted nude photos of a mentally unstable ex who I don't like now but at some point used to love.
People who trust services like Snapchat clearly don't work in IT or cyber security.
irisblue
(32,971 posts)mudstump
(342 posts)Don't take nude photos of yourself. You are stupid if you do so don't blame anyone else when they are shared.
Turin_C3PO
(13,975 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)In a public space, you have no expectation of privacy. If you snap a photo of trump with his unruly hedgehog thing of a hair piece flapped up in the wind, he can go fucking pound sand asswards if he demands you delete it. It's not his photo, he has no control of it, it was taken where he had no reasonable expectation of privacy (say getting off Marine 1).
Nude pics in private... whose are they? If the hostile party possesses them, was there an agreement that these never be shared? This is literally a copyright issue. If they weren't taken with permission, then that should be legally actionable. If they were taken with permission, it's down to the copyright agreement between the subject and photo-holder. (Which could be verbal.)
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I'm proposing an ethical argument. I'm all about ethics.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)If someone has a nude photo of a second person who seems to be willingly participating in the making of the photo, the photo owner has the advantage unless there is some type of documentation that the photos were never to be shared. The photo holder can clearly be proven to be an overall scumbag in Court, but that means nothing if none of that impinges on the issue of whether consent to share the photos were given. The best way to control explicit photos is to never take them or allow anyone else to take them.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)such material. I did not say or imply that everyone would do the same. Clearly, some use such material to harm others. They should not.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)but it happens and the law is often powerless to do anything about it.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)And it's not unique to nude photos.
I want my ring back.
I want my kids back.
I want the dog back.
etc.
Shared property is a bitch to unwind post-breakup/divorce. In many cases, you've suddenly, or maybe slowly over time, become bitter enemies with your previously most trusted confidant and co-conspirator. People who run afoul of revenge pron laws aren't mistaken, or unclear on the law, or anything else. They're trying to damage the other person from the dead relationship as much as possible.
Revenge porn is frankly, just one subset of a vast and time tested variety of ways people try to harm each other as much as possible after a relationship dies.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Those that have ended were ended without rancor. Relationships end, but they do not have to end in anger, nor do the require retribution for wrongs, real or imagined.
I remain on good terms with all of the people from those relationships. In some cases, we remain friends. In others, we are not in touch, but have never tried to hurt each other in any way.
That's important to me, and always has been. It lets relationships teach us things without becoming bitter when those relationships end.
Personally, I think it all starts when the relationship begins. I've tried to avoid relationships with volatile people.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I've only ever had one relationship, and now I have to figure out what to do for a 20 year anniversary. But it's never a good idea to use ourselves as an example for anything. People don't always know how to let go of an ended relationship, until conditions have become unbearable, and the other party has become 'the villain'.
And then, the war is on...
My parents were a good example, and it didn't end until my dad finally died of cancer, thankfully. It might not have been 'the norm' back then, but it was common enough that it didn't even raise eyebrows. (Thankfully, times are changing.)
bucolic_frolic
(43,146 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)That's about all that laws do (for us non-1% mere mortals, anyway.)
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Most photo releases include some sort of clause indicating whether or not the photos will be distributed and what they will be used for in such a case. One could argue that the majority of such nudes are taken with the subject understanding they are for private use, not distribution.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I doubt you'd find a jury in the land that would default to assume the agreement was 'go ahead and plaster them wherever'.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)If you hand out nude photos,
you're weird.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)The world is a different place and were all different people.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I mean....
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Anytime a person does a photographic or camera nude, they are at someone else's mercy.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)to multiple people over the last fifteen-ish years and its never been an issue. Nudes are fun, sexting is fun, naughty flirting is fun.
Ive received an equally enormous number of nudes in return and Ive never shown them around or used them as blackmail, which tells me that nudes arent the issue, but rather interacting with assholes is what causes the problem.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)It's just electronic flashing and it's gross.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Some women like looking at dicks. Sometimes theyre evaluating, as it were. Obviously I cant say for certain as Im barely able to comprehend the psychology of my own gender.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)hurt the other or get as much money as possible. Photos can be an insurance policy against that.
tulipsandroses
(5,124 posts)[link:https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/02/our-best-weapon-against-revenge-porn-copyright-law/283564/|
The Origins of Revenge Porn
Moore may have been the King of Revenge Porn, but he wasnt the first contender for the throne.
In 1980, someone at Hustler Magazine had the idea to start Beaver Hunt, a contest that published reader-submitted images of naked women. Beaver Hunt photos were often accompanied by details about the woman: her hobbies, her sexual fantasies, and sometimes her name. Some of the photos were stolen. Exes submitted many more.
Throughout the '80s, women sued Hustler for publishing their photos in Beaver Hunt without their permission. Several courts determined that publishing intimate photos without verifying whether the pictured women actually gave the go-ahead gave the false impression that all of the featured women felt comfortable with their pictures appearing in a coarse and sex-centered magazine.
Quackers
(2,256 posts)I think once the army had us using group outhouses together, Ive never gotten embarrassed again. Seriously, 8 of us sitting, side by side on outhouse toilets, touching elbows, and 5 more guys waiting in line for each toilet. Were not talking about taking a leak either.
In regards to my nudes, I dont care what my wife does with them if we split. I refuse to let anyone hold power over me like that.
TalenaGor
(1,104 posts)But he finally shut up after 2 years I'm not about to contact him
We had a thing.... He had pictures.... Red flags went up I ended the thing.... Then the stalking began and went on for over 2 years.... He contacted me using VoIP services on probably 30 or more phone numbers.... I had them blocked I reported him to the companies, I sent cease and desist letters twice....I did everything I could I contacted authorities and victims groups I changed all my profiles online because he found me everywhere including here on DU....(this is why I look like a somewhat new account)
I nearly had a full-on breakdown over it.... I hadn't responded to him in years but he still contacted me several times a day one way or another.. he always found a way.....And he absolutely refused to delete my pictures...
Finally about two years ago he actually stopped......but as far as I know he still has those pictures and I worry every day that he's going to do something with them...
rownesheck
(2,343 posts)a large chunk of people are assholes after a relationship ends. I'm glad I've always been embarrassed of showing certain parts of my body so there are no nudes of me floating around.
I'm still trying to figure out a way to be intimate while fully clothed.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that I'm old enough that most of the stupid shit I did when I was younger was pre-Internet.