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Today a twenty-something told me that she doesn't plan to have children because of climate change. (Original Post) milestogo Jan 2020 OP
Both my twenty-something kids feel the same way. yardwork Jan 2020 #1
Are you worried about the suffering and challenges your kids are going to endure? Kaleva Jan 2020 #102
Of course. yardwork Jan 2020 #104
Do you regret having them? Knowing now what their future may be? Kaleva Jan 2020 #106
Of course not. But my children's choices are their own. yardwork Jan 2020 #107
Of course you can't tell them what to do but you can say what you did. Kaleva Jan 2020 #108
They already know that. yardwork Jan 2020 #116
I've heard that too. C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #2
Smart woman. Cattledog Jan 2020 #3
I agree, smart. I made the same decision forty odd years ago. LiberalLoner Jan 2020 #20
The nihilism of the 17-25 year olds that I know is remarkable even to this hard Genxer. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2020 #4
How is that? Isn't her decision wise if she only envisions suffering for a child she bears? nt Blue_true Jan 2020 #22
She's young enough herself to probably be a casualty of climate change. Kaleva Jan 2020 #96
Excellent point about her youth and that climate change will impact her. Blue_true Jan 2020 #117
Back in the day, having young ones in the family was a survival tactic. Kaleva Jan 2020 #122
If things get as bad as they are tracking to be, those adult children Blue_true Jan 2020 #123
It's the kind of life billions now live Kaleva Jan 2020 #124
Climate change will present exponentially more difficult challenges, even Blue_true Jan 2020 #125
The effects of climate change will not be uniform throughout the world Kaleva Jan 2020 #134
Maybe it is... Newest Reality Jan 2020 #32
Eventually America will only be filled with brainwashed rwnj children if we let the future scare us dustyscamp Jan 2020 #5
"'Let' let the future scare us" Duppers Jan 2020 #26
If I was diagnosed with cancer and had only a little bit of time left on this world dustyscamp Jan 2020 #52
Know any climate scientists? Duppers Jan 2020 #82
2nd thoughts Duppers Jan 2020 #86
If we wreck this planet, no fucking way do we have any business Crunchy Frog Jan 2020 #88
In the end, Earth, because it's always changing, will kill every living thing. Kaleva Jan 2020 #109
But would you decide to have (more) children? robbob Jan 2020 #110
The cold hard facts are that the effects of climate change will not be uniform around the world Kaleva Jan 2020 #64
I am around that age a lot and every one has made this comment. Bummfuzzle Jan 2020 #6
My 32yo son will remain childless. Duppers Jan 2020 #28
it does not take degrees to understand climate change Skittles Jan 2020 #41
The ones I know are working on their secondary degrees, mostly. Right. Bummfuzzle Jan 2020 #48
👍 Duppers Jan 2020 #83
I decided not to when I was 11 safeinOhio Jan 2020 #7
Ditto that. I could see this shit coming decades ago. n/t CousinIT Jan 2020 #14
Me too (or there about) ... Auggie Jan 2020 #27
I hear somewhat older childless couples among my own friends saying now that they are glad they hlthe2b Jan 2020 #8
On The Beach. ret5hd Jan 2020 #9
+1. Check it out. yonder Jan 2020 #10
Yep. sheshe2 Jan 2020 #30
I said the same thing Bev54 Jan 2020 #11
My daughter is 24 and has zero interest in kids Takket Jan 2020 #12
I don't want children, but when I was a twenty something I didn't know any female who didn't. milestogo Jan 2020 #13
Climate change is just one reason Disaffected Jan 2020 #15
Climate change equals Duppers Jan 2020 #31
True, Disaffected Jan 2020 #65
Both of my married sons already decided years ago that they won't reproduce. scarletwoman Jan 2020 #16
I've mostly felt the same way Ahpook Jan 2020 #69
A lot of us were saying this in the sixties and seventies ... marble falls Jan 2020 #17
Our 30 something daughter feels the same, yonder Jan 2020 #18
I'm sure bdamomma Jan 2020 #70
Perspective. Thank you. yonder Jan 2020 #80
Real estate and farm prices crashed in the 1920s Warpy Jan 2020 #92
Hello Warpy!!!! CountAllVotes Jan 2020 #98
Personally, it would be a financial choice not to have kids sakabatou Jan 2020 #19
Maybe she's read "The Population Bomb", by Paul Ehrlich Sonny Mirviss Jan 2020 #21
Just found my copy of that book csziggy Jan 2020 #24
Really? former9thward Jan 2020 #90
So, you got my point. Sonny Mirviss Jan 2020 #93
Yep, my kids too. FirstLight Jan 2020 #23
I told my kids not to bring children into the world. murielm99 Jan 2020 #33
My siblings' children 2naSalit Jan 2020 #25
We did not have children and do not regret that. TNNurse Jan 2020 #29
This is not new. Many have been thinking for a long time that this is unsustainable. We cannot in Evolve Dammit Jan 2020 #34
Wait, how can they be parents if they have no children? smirkymonkey Jan 2020 #43
Lol! cwydro Jan 2020 #60
Sorry; married couples. My bad. Evolve Dammit Jan 2020 #120
No problem. smirkymonkey Jan 2020 #121
I have three adult daughters... Sedona Jan 2020 #35
As an old Boomer... Newest Reality Jan 2020 #36
Fallout is imminent or soon bucolic_frolic Jan 2020 #37
She's probably correct. paleotn Jan 2020 #38
Good move CountAllVotes Jan 2020 #39
Fertility rates have been dropping world wide for decades. Women are feeling their power and Kurt V. Jan 2020 #40
It's like all these different facets of the Handmaid's Tale, are dewsgirl Jan 2020 #56
I made the same decision back in the 70s & 80s for the same reason. I had no faith that humanity catbyte Jan 2020 #42
This is nothing new. llmart Jan 2020 #44
My friend's 30 year old son said the same thing DesertRat Jan 2020 #45
I never wanted children and didn't have them, and don't regret it at all. smirkymonkey Jan 2020 #46
You don't have to add to overpopulation TexasBushwhacker Jan 2020 #47
If I were 20 again Timewas Jan 2020 #49
My son made the same decision. lunatica Jan 2020 #50
I heard that in the fifties about nuclear war spike jones Jan 2020 #51
I decided the same in 1965. MineralMan Jan 2020 #53
I agree. warmfeet Jan 2020 #54
Smart decision. BigmanPigman Jan 2020 #55
Happily Childfree cagefreesoylentgreen Jan 2020 #57
Don't worry, plenty of people in India/Bangladesh will take their place Baclava Jan 2020 #58
There've been too many adults in need of parenting in my life. Mersky Jan 2020 #59
If I were a GenZ person, I am not sure I'd have kids, either. PatrickforO Jan 2020 #61
My daughter and I were talking about choices Marthe48 Jan 2020 #62
She is smart. MLAA Jan 2020 #63
I'm in my 30s and haven't had children for that reason (among others) Tiggeroshii Jan 2020 #66
Both my 20 somethings Andy Canuck Jan 2020 #67
The planet doesn't need saving. It will outlast the human species by millions of years Kaleva Jan 2020 #68
Neither does my 32 year-old son. ancianita Jan 2020 #71
My husband keeps saying the wrong ones marlakay Jan 2020 #72
Well, she's ASSUMING she's going to have a choice about that! Texin Jan 2020 #73
Why would you even go there? Bummfuzzle Jan 2020 #84
We might not be in this situation had we, the older generation, decided not to have kids. Kaleva Jan 2020 #74
Some of us did just that. Not enough, apparently. MineralMan Jan 2020 #111
She is likely correct too. BeckyDem Jan 2020 #75
m kids as well handmade34 Jan 2020 #76
No surprise... Hulk Jan 2020 #77
My 29 year old says the same thing🙁 rainy Jan 2020 #78
For perspective, some 20-somethings a generation ago said the same thing because of nuclear war JHB Jan 2020 #79
There are a lot of people doing that NCProgressive Jan 2020 #81
Good jcgoldie Jan 2020 #85
Ditto on my 20 something Olafjoy Jan 2020 #87
I'll never have grandchildren from my son Bluesaph Jan 2020 #89
No Kids, No Regrets Upward Jan 2020 #91
didn't realize there were so many older people here Apple Fritter Jan 2020 #94
twenty-somethings are young enough to probably fall victim to the ravages of climate change Kaleva Jan 2020 #95
Do any of us older folks worry about the suffering our twenty-something kids are going to endure? Kaleva Jan 2020 #97
Climate change is a population issue. MineralMan Jan 2020 #113
Yes. I can see how they feel hopelessly screwed over. milestogo Jan 2020 #115
But the world's population will hit 8 billion in 2023. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2020 #99
Kick ck4829 Jan 2020 #100
Her choice but she's more pessimistic than climate scientists. Loki Liesmith Jan 2020 #101
On average even with insurance exboyfil Jan 2020 #103
My younger daughter, now 33 greymattermom Jan 2020 #105
Smart StarryNite Jan 2020 #112
I started asking doctors about a vasectomy at 25. Jokerman Jan 2020 #114
I wish the evangelical bible-thumpers down the street from me felt the same way. jcmaine72 Jan 2020 #118
Good lord,maybe they just like kids. I have six,my body,my choice. virgogal Jan 2020 #126
Did you read what I wrote? They're bible-thumping nuts. jcmaine72 Jan 2020 #128
Who is going to pay my social security? Joe941 Jan 2020 #119
It was in 1999. . . Collimator Jan 2020 #127
Cold hard scientific fact has little to do with the psychology of self fulfilling prophecy... tandem5 Jan 2020 #129
I chose not to breed... BluNoMatterHu Jan 2020 #130
My soon-to-be 35 year old daughter feels differently DFW Jan 2020 #131
Yeah, I've heard that a lot Bradical79 Jan 2020 #132
Adopt Bradical79 Jan 2020 #133

yardwork

(62,356 posts)
107. Of course not. But my children's choices are their own.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 09:35 AM
Jan 2020

I can't tell my adult children what to do, especially regarding such an important lifelong decision.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
108. Of course you can't tell them what to do but you can say what you did.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 10:34 AM
Jan 2020

You can tell them that you have no regrets in having them even if their futures are potentially quite bleak.

C_U_L8R

(45,144 posts)
2. I've heard that too.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:21 PM
Jan 2020

Not just climate change. There's not a lot of hope for the future out there. We really messed up.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
96. She's young enough herself to probably be a casualty of climate change.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 06:41 AM
Jan 2020

I wonder of the young woman's parents worry about the suffering she is sure to face when she's older.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
117. Excellent point about her youth and that climate change will impact her.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 06:22 PM
Jan 2020

To me, that makes her decision even wiser. She is in her twenties per the OP, so she has time to change her mind.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
122. Back in the day, having young ones in the family was a survival tactic.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 10:52 PM
Jan 2020

The now 20-something will likely be aged herself by the time things get bad and she'll not have offspring or adult grandchildren who can assist her.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
123. If things get as bad as they are tracking to be, those adult children
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 10:56 PM
Jan 2020

and grandchildren would struggle every day to survive. What type of life is that?

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
124. It's the kind of life billions now live
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:14 PM
Jan 2020

With our wealth, we think of a few days without electricity to be a real struggle. Edit: I could go several months or longer but I sure would prefer not to.

Living conditions like below are foreign to us:

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
125. Climate change will present exponentially more difficult challenges, even
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:26 PM
Jan 2020

for the rich. No one, nor any nation will be exempt.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
134. The effects of climate change will not be uniform throughout the world
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 09:03 PM
Jan 2020

Some areas will actually become better suited for human habitation.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
32. Maybe it is...
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:46 PM
Jan 2020

Maybe it is more of a pessimism that is based on the projections and expectations of current conditions, which are not very promising at all? They may be expression love for their unborn children who have no choice in the matter.

I tend to think of that as more like a pragmatic realism rather than merely nihilistic. It reminds me of antinatalism, which is almost similar to negative utilitarianism.

But, that's my Boomer hippie stuff, perhaps?

dustyscamp

(2,240 posts)
52. If I was diagnosed with cancer and had only a little bit of time left on this world
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:12 PM
Jan 2020

I'm sure as hell wouldn't sit there and accept it. I would go out and have fun til I couldn't do it anymore. Humanity probably won't be able to turn back the damage that has been done to the planet, but maybe someday in the future someone smart will finally build spacecrafts for us to get of the planet and go someplace else or develops something that will considerably help rejuvenate the planet.
In the meantime before all that I'm sure people in the background have been working hard to develop short term tech and procedures that will help humanity survive through this.

Duppers

(28,176 posts)
82. Know any climate scientists?
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:25 PM
Jan 2020

NASA folks? Physicists?

I understand where you're coming from but you are in denial. There is no accessible "Planet B."

https://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/no-planet-b


Duppers

(28,176 posts)
86. 2nd thoughts
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:48 PM
Jan 2020

You're diagnosed with cancer, as you proposed. You're going to bring a child into the world with little to no chance of living a full lifespan without living in a dystopian climate according to most climate predictions?

Sure, we can build enough spacecraft to hold the world's population to escape this burning planet. Sure.

Crunchy Frog

(26,767 posts)
88. If we wreck this planet, no fucking way do we have any business
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:58 PM
Jan 2020

Going off and finding other planets to wreck.

If we succeed in making Earth uninhabitable, then we absolutely deserve to go extinct along with all the other life forms that we will have destroyed.

robbob

(3,561 posts)
110. But would you decide to have (more) children?
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:34 AM
Jan 2020

If you were diagnosed with cancer and told it was inoperable; you only have 5 years max to live. Would you decide to start a family? That’s the more apt analogy, not “going out and having fun”.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
64. The cold hard facts are that the effects of climate change will not be uniform around the world
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:37 PM
Jan 2020

Some areas will actually become better suited for human habitation.

Scroll down to page 15 of the following report on Alaska:

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/lands/ecosystems/pdfs/sp10_14.pdf

One observation I've made is that despite the angst expressed by many about climate change, very few appear to be doing anything to adapt to it. It's like they have the opinion that climate change will be bad but it's something that will happen to others and not them.

Duppers

(28,176 posts)
28. My 32yo son will remain childless.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:41 PM
Jan 2020

He and his g.f. are well-read, well-educated, and know what's coming. (They've 5 degrees between the two of them.)

Auggie

(31,406 posts)
27. Me too (or there about) ...
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:39 PM
Jan 2020

Over population and air pollution were themes we studied in the 1970s. They just have another name now.

hlthe2b

(103,336 posts)
8. I hear somewhat older childless couples among my own friends saying now that they are glad they
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:28 PM
Jan 2020

didn't have children. That doesn't mean they aren't working to change things for the next generation, mind you--just that the guilt of not being able to affect all the change that they sought and know that we desperately need has left them feeling sanguine about not having children.

Bev54

(10,479 posts)
11. I said the same thing
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:31 PM
Jan 2020

When I was in my early 20's and our rivers and air were so polluted. I had children and the pollution was cleaned up. We were all very idealistic when we were young.

Takket

(22,124 posts)
12. My daughter is 24 and has zero interest in kids
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:31 PM
Jan 2020

Maybe it will change as she gets older but right now she is struggling to make ends meet (we help as much as we can) while her boyfriend (husband someday I think) is in a training program.

But besides the economics she is just disgusted with the world and it gets worse every day under drumpf. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting kids these days.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
13. I don't want children, but when I was a twenty something I didn't know any female who didn't.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:33 PM
Jan 2020

So it came as a shock.

Disaffected

(4,705 posts)
15. Climate change is just one reason
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:39 PM
Jan 2020

How 'bout mass starvation and disease. Or, pollution, economic collapse and global war?

I despair for the youth of today and am glad I won't be around to see it.

"Once was the time of man..."

Duppers

(28,176 posts)
31. Climate change equals
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:46 PM
Jan 2020

Mass starvation, disease, more pollution, economic collapse, and global war.

Climate change will cause all of these.


Disaffected

(4,705 posts)
65. True,
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:42 PM
Jan 2020

but each could well happen for other reasons. Climate change makes it all the more likely (certain?).

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
16. Both of my married sons already decided years ago that they won't reproduce.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:40 PM
Jan 2020

They both think that it's irresponsible to add to the planet's population at this point in time.

I understand and respect their decisions, although it has also saddened me - no grandkids! (sniff)

I think that if I were in my 20s today, I would probably not want to bring any children into this world, either.

Not just because of climate change, also because of the current worldwide political and economic climate. Why bring children into a world ruled by oligarchs, when those children would have nothing to look forward to except serfdom?

Ahpook

(2,756 posts)
69. I've mostly felt the same way
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:49 PM
Jan 2020

In my 20's I didn't want children. I married in my 30's to a beautiful wife who had two children. I had my same feelings but went with it because of falling head over heels in love. Ended up being a great experience as the children treated me as if I was their dad.

It felt wonderful that we became so close. My wife passed away a few years ago, but her children and I still have a great relationship.

Not sure what my point is But you just never know where life will take you!

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
17. A lot of us were saying this in the sixties and seventies ...
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:41 PM
Jan 2020

three wonderful children and three grand marvelous kids later, I'm glad I didn't follow through like my brother has. My son and his wife decided to have no children in the nineties and kept their vow.

I think every generation has had these thoughts.

yonder

(9,756 posts)
18. Our 30 something daughter feels the same,
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 07:45 PM
Jan 2020

while her brother and SIL are planning for kid(s).

I'm frustrated/angry/sad that we can't seem able to address and fix the problems we have to leave them a better future and am slowly losing hope that it may be too late anyway.

That said, GOTV. It's our only chance.

bdamomma

(64,527 posts)
70. I'm sure
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:54 PM
Jan 2020

our parents or other relatives felt the same way during WW2, things then were messed up too, but then again they didn't have a idiot as pResident.

We could change this around with voting like we have never done before. We got to.

Warpy

(112,145 posts)
92. Real estate and farm prices crashed in the 1920s
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 12:35 AM
Jan 2020

The birth rate cratered in the late 1920s and stayed very low until after WWII.

With the New Deal and the consumer society and decent pay for a day's work, things looked rosy enough that people in their late teens through their early 40s felt safe enough to have kids. This is the baby boom, not so much that women were having huge families, but that a large age range of women were finally having them after 20 years of not being able to afford to.

That's part of what's happening now. Wages have been depressed since the late 70s and kid in their prime child bearing years are often crushed by student debt. Few can afford children and the political situation is just one other disincentive.

It's not just in the US, ether. Pessimism about the future is holding down population growth in most developed countries.

csziggy

(34,156 posts)
24. Just found my copy of that book
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:26 PM
Jan 2020

It was part of the curriculum for the liberal college I attended in 1970-71. And it was part of the reason I never planned to have kids. Aside from the population problems, in those days there was a serious threat of nuclear war. Some of my classmates were planning to move to New Zealand as the place most likely to be survivable in case of WWIII.

Since I had grown up near where Pat Frank's "Alas Babylon" was set, I figured being close to a blast would provide a shorter span to suffer, so I have stayed put pretty much. But no kids that might have to live through a post apocalyptic world. Climate change might just be a slower version.

FirstLight

(13,518 posts)
23. Yep, my kids too.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:17 PM
Jan 2020

I actually told them I didn't want them to bring children onto the planet because I wasn't sure if they were even going to have a "normal" adulthood - as the burning ship continues to sink.

They are 17 & 18, and have no plans to procreate... My son is obsessed with making enough $$ to build a bunker. That's his end game.

2naSalit

(88,850 posts)
25. My siblings' children
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:35 PM
Jan 2020

have all chosen, except one, not to have them. Out of six children, and four grandchildren, my mother has one great grandchild. I like to think we've done our part in educating our next generations, they certainly are seriously concerned. I worry for them too.

TNNurse

(6,991 posts)
29. We did not have children and do not regret that.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:42 PM
Jan 2020

My husband (graduated from college in 72) often mentions Silent Spring. In that we have known things for a very long time.

Evolve Dammit

(17,485 posts)
34. This is not new. Many have been thinking for a long time that this is unsustainable. We cannot in
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:47 PM
Jan 2020

good conscience, have children. Last 30 years or so. Seeing many families with more than 2-3? I'm not. And I know many parents with no children.

Sedona

(3,778 posts)
35. I have three adult daughters...
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:48 PM
Jan 2020

None have reprduced and have no plans to.

I'm not compliaing.

To each his (and her) own.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
36. As an old Boomer...
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:51 PM
Jan 2020

I am not in any position to sire children, but I certainly wouldn't if I were younger and I think that is a sound decision, all things considered.

In fact, I agree with a view called, antinatalism. Since one's unborn progeny are unable to make the decision, the potential parents should take that into consideration in a compassionate way. There are many reasons that people have children and, now, there are many reasons not to. I support that.

bucolic_frolic

(44,615 posts)
37. Fallout is imminent or soon
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:53 PM
Jan 2020

I tend to agree with her, but I will say some will survive - cave dwellers in isolated areas. The entire human thing is built on growth. More of everything, and more knowledge. But climate change in my view depends on how soon populations start declining and economies contracting. That will reduce resource depletion and climate change. Of course it's a hideous outcome. I think of it as the scenario in Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" about the century of the 100 Years War and the Black Death. Villages were wiped out. Some places had more dead than they could bury for a long time. Take that and transplant it to our modern era.

If declines are gradual, or manageable, it could be milder.

But no kids because you think you know the future? Can she pick lottery numbers? She could raise a zero-net consumption baby. Everything used, public transit, passive solar home, that sort of thing.

paleotn

(18,413 posts)
38. She's probably correct.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:54 PM
Jan 2020

As we aren't doing jack shit to solve the underlying problem. Ooooh, that costs to much. We say that while Australia burns to the damn ground. We'll probably still say that when the US east coast burns to the damn ground. I don't blame her one bit. Who would want to bring children into some kind of Mad Max reboot?

CountAllVotes

(20,907 posts)
39. Good move
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:54 PM
Jan 2020

Smart young woman.

I saw this one coming 50 years ago.

ECOLOGY NOW was a slogan for environmentalism.

It was never taken very seriously.

It was easier to live with the idea of a disposable world with a never-ending bounty.

How very wrong they are.

i.e. Fires in Australia, species being wiped out. Just the beginning.







Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
40. Fertility rates have been dropping world wide for decades. Women are feeling their power and
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:57 PM
Jan 2020

Expressing it in different ways.

catbyte

(34,834 posts)
42. I made the same decision back in the 70s & 80s for the same reason. I had no faith that humanity
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:02 PM
Jan 2020

would do the right thing. I thought if climate change didn't get us, overpopulation would. I really hoped I was wrong but sadly I wasn't. I'm going to be 65 in June and I've never regretted my decision. Our arrogance will be the death of us and so many other species on the planet. I'll be gone before the shit really hits the fan, but I see my 5-year-old & 8-year-old god-grandchildren and my heart aches for them. I so hope that we wake up before it all goes to hell but I just don't see it.

llmart

(15,839 posts)
44. This is nothing new.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:03 PM
Jan 2020

I remember some saying that back in the 60's.

I am so glad that I'm not as pessimistic as some on this board. I'm also so glad that I had my two children and that I now have a grandchild. Many women in their late 30's/early 40's (and beyond I guess) are paying thousands of dollars to do IVF just so they can have a child. The human biological urge to procreate is one of the strongest of human behaviors.

Some of those new babies may grow up to be people who find solutions to the problems that need to be addressed.

People are not going to stop having babies. I have never for one moment in my 70 years regretted having my two children.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
46. I never wanted children and didn't have them, and don't regret it at all.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:08 PM
Jan 2020

I am in my mid-50's and I love my freedom. I also am the nervous type who would constantly be worrying about them if I did have any. I have 8 nieces and nephews and I fear for them all the time - between school shootings, the environment, declining career prospects, potential for addictions, violence in general, etc. I could never handle being a parent.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
50. My son made the same decision.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:10 PM
Jan 2020

He died so any possibility of grandchildren is nil.

But I’m very relieved that he chose not to. Very relieved.

warmfeet

(3,321 posts)
54. I agree.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:20 PM
Jan 2020

We certainly haven't made any inroads towards saving ourselves, or any other species. Why contribute to the problem?

Cut the problem off.

BigmanPigman

(52,052 posts)
55. Smart decision.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:22 PM
Jan 2020

I made that decision a long time ago but for different reasons. If I had to do it again I would add Climate Change to the list. The birth rate is going down in the US for the first time since 1900 and it is because people are finally thinking, wow, imagine that?!? The young adults are smarter than we give them credit for.

57. Happily Childfree
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:24 PM
Jan 2020

I decided I hated children and didn’t want any when I was in junior high and was bullied to the point of suicide by my peers. If children were as evil as them, I wanted no part of it.

Thirty years later, my attitude towards kids has softened and I like hearing my coworkers talk about their kids to me. I adore my nephew, who lives several states away. I just don’t care to bring one home with me permanently.

But junior high is also where I first heard about global warming (mid-80s), and that helped further solidify my decision not to have any of my own.

I do worry about my 8 year old nephew. He’s very interested in space and science, and wants to be an astronaut. Over Christmas I talked to him how hard he’ll have to work towards that goal, and maybe I went a little overboard in making him promise he’ll get to Mars someday. He’s still innocent enough to just see that as a grand adventure rather than as survival, but I think that’ll change as he gets older.

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
58. Don't worry, plenty of people in India/Bangladesh will take their place
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:27 PM
Jan 2020

"India will soon become the world’s most populous country as India’s population is predicted to surpass that of China within the next decade."


and maybe China too, now that they did away with their one-child policy

Mersky

(5,037 posts)
59. There've been too many adults in need of parenting in my life.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:30 PM
Jan 2020

Not sure how I could care for children as well. Climate change made the decision even more simple. And who knows? Maybe I’ll adopt or foster kids in a few years?

PatrickforO

(14,685 posts)
61. If I were a GenZ person, I am not sure I'd have kids, either.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:35 PM
Jan 2020

As long as we live in this capitalist utopia, hold profits over the needs of people and organize ourselves around human greed instead of human need, why bother?

Until we grow up as a species, we put the very habitability of our planet in peril.

Marthe48

(17,836 posts)
62. My daughter and I were talking about choices
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:37 PM
Jan 2020

I told her that her Dad and I decided to observe "Zero Population Growth" which was a movement in the early 1970s. She and her husband opted not to have kids, for several reasons, one of which was planetary changes. I mentioned a program about life after humans, which I haven't watched, but heard about. She hadn't heard of it, so I googled it and came across something called Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, where we stop reproducing to phase the human race out to save the planet. She said, "I guess I'm part of a movement."

The trouble is, the people who might be better parents, at least in awareness of impact, won't have kids, and people who don't give a ff about the planet won't stop, and won't raise their kids' awareness.

I participated in the 1st Earth Day, and we observed it by planting trees or a garden almost every year. Our kids recycle, limit consumption and our daughter with kids is passing her habits along to her kids. I'm proud of them.

I don't blame the 20 something for opting out of parenthood. It is always scary to have kids, but seems worse lately.

MLAA

(17,630 posts)
63. She is smart.
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:37 PM
Jan 2020

The single most impactful thing we can do is to go to a plant based diet. I don’t think enough people will, so I agree with her that it is too late and I applaud her gumption not to introduce more children to a painful short term future.

Andy Canuck

(285 posts)
67. Both my 20 somethings
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:46 PM
Jan 2020

have told me they are not having kids because of climate change. And I understand where they are coming from. It seems to be a wise decision given the prospect for the future.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
68. The planet doesn't need saving. It will outlast the human species by millions of years
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:49 PM
Jan 2020

If we don't leave, at some point the world will become our tomb.

marlakay

(11,744 posts)
72. My husband keeps saying the wrong ones
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:58 PM
Jan 2020

Are doing this, the thoughtful, smart people are deciding not to but the crazies are having lots of kids.

Texin

(2,613 posts)
73. Well, she's ASSUMING she's going to have a choice about that!
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:01 PM
Jan 2020

If this can't be brought to heel, she will be compelled by Catholic-Evangelical male maniacs (and their female counterparts) to bear children - whether with a partner she chose to be with or whether she was RAPED by some random predator who hid in the shrubbery and forced her at gunpoint or by point of knife at her throat to submit.

JHB

(37,191 posts)
79. For perspective, some 20-somethings a generation ago said the same thing because of nuclear war
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:21 PM
Jan 2020

Plenty of them have kids now.

 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
81. There are a lot of people doing that
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:24 PM
Jan 2020

It is likely to be disastrous and not have much impact on the climate.

Having 1 child only is probably a better alternative to keep population neutral.

jcgoldie

(11,698 posts)
85. Good
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 10:46 PM
Jan 2020

Outside of being some sort of scientist or a politician with enough power to have a meaningful voice in the debate... not making more humans is the best thing we can do for the planet I believe.

Bluesaph

(783 posts)
89. I'll never have grandchildren from my son
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 11:01 PM
Jan 2020

For same reason. And my sister’s only two children will not have children so she will never be a grandmother.

My three daughters have given me four grand babies and I live for them. But sometimes I wish they hadn’t because the thought of their future suffering hurts.

Upward

(115 posts)
91. No Kids, No Regrets
Mon Jan 6, 2020, 11:22 PM
Jan 2020

There's no way on god's green earth I could have raised a kid to be competitive in this environment.

Apple Fritter

(131 posts)
94. didn't realize there were so many older people here
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 03:29 AM
Jan 2020

Not only do people choose not to have kids, but everyone is also starting a family later in life. there's Having kids during the late 30s and raising them in the 40's happens while birth rates are expected to decrease every year as my generation of millennials age up. Planned pregnancy at a young age is uncommon too. Birth control have made so many people so responsible. The the current state of things naturally represses everyone from procreation. sry late post night

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
95. twenty-somethings are young enough to probably fall victim to the ravages of climate change
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 06:39 AM
Jan 2020

The changes are taking place faster then earlier predicted.

Kaleva

(36,876 posts)
97. Do any of us older folks worry about the suffering our twenty-something kids are going to endure?
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 06:54 AM
Jan 2020

The effects of climate change are taking place faster then earlier predicted.

MineralMan

(146,539 posts)
113. Climate change is a population issue.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:42 AM
Jan 2020

I'm one of the "older folks." In 1965, at age 20, I decided, based on population growth numbers, not to father any children. I married women who agreed with that, and we didn't make any children.

I read "The Population Bomb." I studied global population issues. I made a decision. There are many others in my age group who made similar decisions. Not enough, however, to have forestalled one of the consequences of having too many people on this finite planet.

The warnings were there. People ignored them. Warnings about famine. Warnings about disease. Warnings about climate. Warnings about running out of resources. Warnings about sheer overcrowding of the planet. People ignored them, just as they are doing now, in vast numbers.

I did not ignore those warnings. Others I know did not ignore them, either.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,549 posts)
99. But the world's population will hit 8 billion in 2023.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 07:12 AM
Jan 2020

Perhaps it's just first-world educated young adults who are making this plan.

Other areas of the world, different plan, or no plan at all.

Or does this non-procreation plan have a statistical correlation with race or religion? I don't think it's universal.

And, this planet will survive the human race by billions of years. Except for a meteorite hit 65 million years ago, mammals would not have had the space to survive, grow, evolve.



exboyfil

(17,894 posts)
103. On average even with insurance
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 08:55 AM
Jan 2020

having a child costs $5K. Nearly half of all births are funded by Medicaid.

In the future given the policies of the Republicans, I would not be surprised if many decide on sterilization given that both abortion and contraception will be more difficult to obtain.

greymattermom

(5,776 posts)
105. My younger daughter, now 33
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 09:16 AM
Jan 2020

says the same thing. Another issue is affording day care. My older daughter is living as frugally as she can, wants children, and I plan to do the day care when she works, part time. They have one older car, eat only food she makes from scratch, and take the train to work. Their jobs reimburse their MARTA passes, so commuting is free.

Jokerman

(3,525 posts)
114. I started asking doctors about a vasectomy at 25.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:42 AM
Jan 2020

It took me more than 10 years to find a doctor who would even discuss the subject with me.

They all said that I would change my mind but I never did.

jcmaine72

(1,779 posts)
118. I wish the evangelical bible-thumpers down the street from me felt the same way.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 06:48 PM
Jan 2020

They have FIVE children, and the wife looks like she's pregnant again. Worse yet, they homeschool their progeny, undoubtedly so they can perpetuate their fairy tales without any hope of a real education interfering. These people have no shame.

What makes me sick is that the people of good conscience, like the young person you spoke with today, aren't having children while the religious nuts are still shooting them out by the truckload. It doesn't bode well.

jcmaine72

(1,779 posts)
128. Did you read what I wrote? They're bible-thumping nuts.
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 02:22 AM
Jan 2020

A person can do whatever they like with their body, but keep your religion away from me. These people don't. They're always handing out pamphlets for their church, especially the husband.

Odd that anyone here would feel obligated to rush in and form loving shield around such people.

Collimator

(1,659 posts)
127. It was in 1999. . .
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:21 AM
Jan 2020

And I was 40 years old and working at IKEA. I was very committed to recycling and salvaging and thinking about the environment for future generations even though I knew that I would never have children of my own.

A twenty-something co-worker and I were tossing broken items into the crushing dumpster* and I brought up my desire to waste as little as possible etc., etc., because tomorrow's children deserve a chance, blah, blah. My co-worker brought up the point that she thought that the world would hold together long enough for her to have children but didn't think things would be very good for the generation after that.

There was a bland acceptance in her perspective that troubled me. She wanted the good things in life, including having a family. But, she, like many of my co-workers, didn't feel like going through too much trouble to recycle or reuse or salvage and repurpose items. And she wasn't investing any angst into what her children and their children's lives would be like.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that sounds like nihilism to me. It was also short-sighted and selfish.

I have a much higher opinion of the young woman who doesn't plan on having children because of its impact on the environment--or because she couldn't guarantee that her children would live decent lives in a sustainable world.

Clearly, not every single breeding age person of the next generation will feel that way. The chances of our species going down for the count because no one will be having any babies in the future is zero.

The real issue is what sort of life can we offer to a reasonable number of people in the future. Total pessimism will not fix the future, of course. But thinking about the future beyond one's own personal desires and aspirations is part of the mindset needed to confront the challenges ahead.


* For those in Customer Service, even those who genuinely enjoyed helping people as I did, the crushing dumpster was the most blissful form of therapy ever invented.

tandem5

(2,072 posts)
129. Cold hard scientific fact has little to do with the psychology of self fulfilling prophecy...
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 04:22 AM
Jan 2020

Besides, life on Earth has been in a tenuous position well before the advent of nuclear weapons or the internal combustion engine. We're not even safely positioned in our Solar System's own habitable zone. So look on the bright side: While we wait in silence, clutching our loved-ones, having made peace with our inevitable and self-inflicted end we might just suffer a super eruption or get hit by a medium sized meteor and die ironically by the rapid onset of a mini ice-age. I say bright side because that seems almost preferable to waiting and worrying for a couple of generations for the exact demise with which mother-nature will surely not oblige us.

BluNoMatterHu

(31 posts)
130. I chose not to breed...
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 09:43 AM
Jan 2020

for that reason, too. I saw what direction the world was going and I didn't want to subject another being to the horrors of humanity. Every time I see a child I think of what's in store for them and it reaffirms my choice.

DFW

(55,222 posts)
131. My soon-to-be 35 year old daughter feels differently
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 10:50 AM
Jan 2020

Her first child just passed 18 months, and #2 is due in June.

Her 19 month old daughter is already showing signs of being focused, funny, intelligent and headstrong--just like her mother. Our daughter was a handful growing up, but we tried to instill in her the knowledge that she could accomplish anything she set out to do. She has lived up to our expectations and more, and if she is putting more people in the world like that to carry on when we are gone, we can only approve.

Because of current bureaucracy, it took her 11 months to get U.S. citizenship for her first baby (it took me 2 hours for her in 1985 at the U.S. embassy in Bonn), but she did it, so the next generation of Democrats is on the way. We'll need them.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
132. Yeah, I've heard that a lot
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 11:02 AM
Jan 2020

Not an unreasonable position. No actionable plan exists that adequately addresses climate change. The changes required are just too drastic for most to accept.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
133. Adopt
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 11:08 AM
Jan 2020

I'll also just toss out there that if the only reason someone doesn't want kids is climate change, then adoption would be something to seriously consider. Plenty of kids already born who need parents.

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