******* Senate Impeachment Live Thread 2 - 1/25 *******

[Mersky]

Live Thread 1: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212908351

[underpants]

1. Boy for all the attacks on Schiff's appearance this Philbin guy makes Jared look like a tough guy

[madaboutharry]

2. They are now claiming Trump had a good reason for

resisting every subpoena and request for documents.

#1: We didn't like the way you issued your subpoenas.
#2: We didn't assert executive privilege because we didn't like
the way you issued your subpoenas.
#3: We didn't like the way you conducted business in the
House. We don't think subcommittees count.

[BumRushDaShow]

3. So Philbin is assigned to do the "process" argument

which was completely debunked the past couple days.

[ancianita]

4. Criticizing the House "process" with "only by a vote of the House," prebutted by Schiff last night.

All this "doesn't make sense" bullshit hyperrationalization on "valid" subpoenas.

[nolabear]

5. Brilliant real time debunking by the House Intel Committee on Twitter.

Link to tweet

[Mike 03]

13. THIS IS BRILLIANT!

(sorry for the caps)

[mnhtnbb]

14. Not only has there not been an Oval Office meeting, but 45 told Zelensky when they met at the UN

to work things out himself with Putin.

In other words, no help from me, with your aggressor (because he's my puppet master).

[Mersky]

72. Cool.

Thanks for bringing that in. Am sharing it around.

Journaling the House Intel’s realtime debunking of the WH ‘defense’.

Eta: Link to the House Managers press conference after the ‘defense’ team’s appearance. Is another great round of debunking: https://www.c-span.org/video/?468583-1/house-impeachment-managers-hold-news-conference&live

[underpants]

6. Philbin went for a walk in the woods there

It's his review of the house and senate roles and his hypothetical on the Senate having a committee.

[ancianita]

7. So an old rule "about a vote by the full House" overrides the Constitution, in this argument.

What a bullshit line of argument.

[underpants]

10. There was a vote to initiate the intel committee

[ancianita]

20. ?? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The Intel Committee is a standing committee.

[underpants]

23. I meant to initiate the Impeachment hearing

[Mersky]

8. I'm just waiting for one of his folksy witticisms given in monotone voice

I assure you he will have gotten it from calendar and clock, doug collins.

[kag]

9. He acts like there was NEVER a vote by the full house. That's bullshit.

They just don't like WHEN it was.

[underpants]

12. Thank you.

[kag]

11. Oh so NOW precedent is important.

[Botany]

15. Philburn

So the full house has to vote before a committee can issue a subponea? When did that become a law?

And since the DoJ aka Bill Barr rejected everything from the House Committee
so everybody in the White House is above the law?

*******

BTW they can't argue the facts of the case so all they can do is make process
arguments.

[Mersky]

21. Lol. philburn.

And they used the subpoena rules instituted by the republicans when they were in the majority.

[Botany]

24. I only could watch about 3 minutes and that is what I thought his name was.

He is arguing from the absurd but he looks good doing it. These motherfuckers are working
for the destruction of democracy in America.

The Rude Pundit summed it up very nicely.
"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."

[LiberalFighter]

79. From what I read about reals regarding subpoenas...

Committees vote on them. Not the full House.

[Botany]

81. I'm sure that Philbin knows that his argument is specious but he is not bothered by that or is ...

... paid more than enough that he can sleep @ night. And all the republican senators know that
argument is specious too and they know that Trump is guilty as hell but so many of them are so
deep into the corruption that they don't care and or will vote to acquit out of self defense.



The Rude Pundit has already summed it all up nicely.
"And, frankly, Republicans are more obsessed with 2016 now than Democrats are because they know, they fucking know, that Trump's victory is illegitimate and they have to do everything in their power to not let that fact become viral."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212904164

[cp]

82. Is he sure he's gonna get paid? By Dump?

[Botany]

86. +1

n/t

[kag]

16. This whole argument is maddening.

He makes it sound like "if they had just done it right, we would have gladly handed over all the stuff they asked for." Which is bullshit.

The documents the House asked for are important. So if the Senate now asks for them, are they gonna just hand them all over?

[underpants]

28. They took the ball and went home. Now they haz sad they forfeited the game.

Too bad. He's been impeached.

[nolabear]

17. Is there a baby in there or has 45 shown up?

Lots of “Wah!” For a second.

[nolabear]

18. Well, if nothing else people will be bored to death and tune out.

These guys are really awful.

[dweller]

19. F it

it's got to be 5:00 somewhere



✌🏼

[kag]

22. In Ukraine, I think.

[ALBliberal]

30. That's hilarious. I love DU humor as much as DU knowledge.

Truly my light in the (s@@t) storm.

[kag]

41. Yup. DU keeps me sane. n/t

[procon]

25. Still waiting for someone to explain why Trump

withheld the money and then tried to cover it up by ordering everyone not to to talk about it or inform Ukraine.

This is pitiful!

So far all I'm hearing is a tirade about burden sharing which isn't in the articles of impeachment. It's a distraction at best. They can't actually discuss the facts because Trump is guilty so we have this slow motion crawl of Trumpian talking points to fill up their designated airtime.

[kag]

26. Ugh.

The whistleblower didn't "start all of this." The orange menace did.

[spanone]

27. Dear trump lawyers...Government Accountability Office - the White House broke the Law...

London (CNN)In the months since news broke that the Trump administration temporarily withheld $400 million in military aid to Ukraine, the report on Thursday by the Government Accountability Office that the White House broke the law by its actions will rank as one of the biggest bombshells.

While there are no criminal penalties from the GAO ruling, it will certainly invigorate the Democrats' efforts to hold President Donald Trump and his accomplices accountable for their repugnant behavior. The process for Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate began Thursday with the presentation of the articles of impeachment.

The GAO ruling will also force the White House further into crisis mode. It is difficult to keep count of the number of times that many among us assumed there was enough solid evidence to turn the legal and political tide against Trump. But each time it looked like the administration was pushed to the edge of the cliff, it has managed to slip away in the court of public opinion.

But we may be getting to the point where even the Teflon President can't wriggle free.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/16/opinions/trump-gao-report-bombshell-military-aid-ukraine-illegal-bociurkiw/

[Mersky]

29. Here it is, the whistleblower shell game of 'who's the one with integrity'

Good grief, they love to manufacture boogeymen out of good guys.

[Blaukraut]

31. Not watching, but judging by this thread, Schiff hit all their defense arguments

in his prebuttal last night. Every single one!

[underpants]

32. Okay that was complete BS about the whistleblower meeting Schiff's staff

"The whistleblower was given some guidance"

Schiff's staff stepped back and said "You need to get a lawyer" and got the hell away.

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Cippy cup - "Good news - just a few more minutes" from us

[kag]

34. How is it relevant that the Mueller investigation cost $32 million.

Taxpayers have spent waaaayyyy more than that on Trump's fucking golf trips.

[Botany]

35. Did he just say Chairman Schiff-ty?

I have to turn it off. The whistleblower's actions and his or her I.D. is protected by law.

[melm00se]

36. The impeachment environment

and behavior reminds me of this quote

If you’re weak on the facts and strong on the law, pound the law.
If you’re weak on the law and strong on the facts, pound the facts.
If you’re weak on both, pound the table.

There are people on both sides of this issue who can be slotted in each of these categories.

[BumRushDaShow]

38. The GOP is not even "pounding the table" absent both the law or the facts!

[yellowcanine]

51. More polishing the turd than pounding the table from the little I have seen.

And it is still a turd. Silk purse, sow's ear also comes to mind.

[BumRushDaShow]

58. And trying

to put more lipstick on that pig!

[hedda_foil]

54. Um, exactly who on the Democratic side pounded the table?

[melm00se]

67. never said who was

in each category.

This is not a perfect quote but it just sums up the way I see people behaving.

It should be noted that I think that there should be a 4th category:

When you are strong on the law and strong the facts, your opponent is well and truly fucked.

[hedda_foil]

71. You didn't say who you meant so I asked you to make any Dems in that category.

You've inserted a slur on Dems as well as repukes by claiming that both sides did it. I challenge you to name one including a specific example of how they just pounded the table.

[BumRushDaShow]

37. I can't believe that he is going over the WH invitations to meet

but the point WAS that Zelensky has STILL NOT HAD the "Oval Office meeting".

[underpants]

43. Yeah he also talked about a meeting in Poland that didn't happen either

Wow. A null set argument.

[kag]

39. OMG! There was a hurricane????

Ask the people of Puerto Rico how many fucks Trump gives about dealing with hurricanes.

[dweller]

40. the sharpie hurricane forecast map ...

✌🏼

[underpants]

45. Was that the same Hurricane ?

I just don't know.

[Mersky]

52. Yes. Was Dorian.

I had to look it up, tbs. Feels like it’s been ten years since the sharpie map.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/04/trump-hurricane-dorian-alabama-sharpie-map

[underpants]

60. Thanks

[dweller]

53. me either

would have made for a great graphic though



✌🏼

[Mersky]

66. Is a reeeal strong point they made, isn't it?!

Lol. They do it to themselves. Pound the table and reference the sharpie gate days.

[malaise]

42. Over and done

Pathetic

[BumRushDaShow]

44. And that was that. Less than 2 hours

[underpants]

50. Felt a lot longer

But DU was fun as usual.

Cipollone almost went into a Mr. Rogers mode there at the end.

[BumRushDaShow]

56. It felt like that because they talked so slowly

[Mersky]

46. Oh no, the pResident couldn't go to Poland because hurricane, aka golfing

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/politics/donald-trump-golf-hurricane/index.html

[in2herbs]

47. If the Rs intended to make an impact with today's testimony they failed miserably. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

48. ***ADJOURNED FOR THE DAY UNTIL 1:00PM ET MONDAY JAN. 27,2020***

[C_U_L8R]

70. Wait, what. Is the clock still running?

[BumRushDaShow]

77. No. They go by how much is used up during a "session"

And usually at the beginning of the next session, they will inform the parties how much time remains from the allocated time.

Each side was allocated 24 hours to present and Democrats used about 21 hours of the max 24 hours. So far the GOP has used around 2 hours of their 24 hours.

[C_U_L8R]

78. So Dems had to present into the night across 3 days

and the President's defense can parse it out as long as they like? Apologies, I'm just not grokking why today was just two hours.

[BumRushDaShow]

83. No, I don't think it worked that way

I think the rules were that each side could spread their "24 hour allocation" of presentations over 3 days, regardless of how many hours of that 24 they would eventually use. So it ended up this way due to when the House Managers started (which was on a Wednesday - but each session started in the afternoon at 1 pm ET and there would be about an hour or so worth of breaks during that time each day) and when they were done, which was yesterday (Friday). The Dem Managers used about 21 hours of the 24 - making for a long 3 days because they were directed to start in the afternoon. So it ended up the GOP would then logically start "the next day" after our side was done, which would be today (Saturday). And since obviously everyone was burnt out, I think everyone agreed that they would make it a short Saturday with just their opening statements.

So the GOP had today, and will have Monday, and Tuesday to use up their 24 hours (they have only used about 2 hours so far), although they probably have nowhere near 24 hours prepared for their presentation.

[C_U_L8R]

84. Thanks BRDS!

[BumRushDaShow]

85. You are welcome

Hopefully what I wrote sortof makes sense because I am still operating on vapors today.

[ariadne0614]

49. Impeachment Cartoon

https://m.imgur.com/r/PoliticalHumor/yxRvMgn

[Mersky]

55. Spookily accurate read.

[BumRushDaShow]

57. Thank you Mersky for the threads!!!

[Mersky]

62. You know you're so very welcome!

See ya in the live threads sooon!

[underpants]

59. Thank you Mersky

[Mersky]

63. Thank you for being in here!

We’ll get through the junk of it, together.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

61. Thanks Mersky!

Just got here, found I've missed the whole thing (breakin my heart), and can now go back and read about all the earthshattering new! improved! exculpatory evidence that was presented.

[Mersky]

64. Hi! You're doing your part to make these threads worthwhile!

Whether commenting (a lot) or READING. Is all good stuff.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

74. Ha! missed 'em today ...

Time zone (and sleep) got me today. I thought the first hour would be mostly squawling, so planned to look in about 11 am. Oops. They started at 10 eastern, 9 central and were finished by the time I came to your 2nd thread!

[UniteFightBack]

65. Oh gee whiz is it over already. I guess dump got one right that it was a ratings disaster I sure

didn't watch it and I'm sorry but they are done in 2 hours..........???? Says it all.

[ancianita]

68. Thank you, Mersky. Republican argument tracking is the hardest work there is.

Everyone here could have taken the easy way out and not listened. But they didn't, which makes DU all the greater.

[Mersky]

75. Good readers and listeners...

Pretty much sums up DU. Am so glad to be in here.

[gademocrat7]

69. Thank you, Mersky!

I appreciate your efforts.

[Generic Other]

73. OMG over before we even woke up on the West Coast

[Mersky]

76. Am glad you're in here!

And I’ll keep doing what I can.

[uponit7771]

80. Lanksford should know better