Thinking the unthinkable - planning to treat COVID-19 at home.

[Girard442]

People infected with COVID virus will either,
1. Never show serious symptoms,
2. Recover with minimal treatment,
3. Recover only with aggressive treatment in a hospital or,
4. Die.

It's worth thinking about what can possibly be done to shift some people from group 3 to group 2. This is not about seeking that surprise miracle cure. It's about what combination of antibiotics, expectorants, decongestants, antihistamines, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, and God knows what else that will, even minutely, increase the survival rate of people who really should be in an ICU but can't be there because there are no beds available. Hell, I'd even take a crack at building a home-made ventilator, if it came to that.

Maybe it's time for the medical community to start thinking about those kinds of things.

[ck4829]

1. Google "Working while sick" at Google Trends, guess which country is number 1 at searching for it?

And the first two don't count.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=working%20while%20sick

There's going to be a Group 1.5; have COVID and can't miss work. We need to plan for that as well.

[stillcool]

2. that's a really good question..

Ibuprophen is the only thing we have.

[Snarkoleptic]

3. CONservatives have said that we need high copays and out of pockets to keep folks from

abusing their right to see a doctor.
Mrs. Snark went to the hospital-affiliated 'immediate care' clinic when she had the flu a couple of months ago. This was because her throat began hurting and she thought she might be getting strep-throat.
We have BlueCross/Blue Shield of Illinois for insurance, and the out of pocket was over $400!
This is why our healthcare system sucks! Many people cannot come up with that kind of $!!

[alittlelark]

4. in 2009 I dealt with H1N1 (swine flu).

I was exposed at a hospital in downtown Mountain View CA. Within 7-9 hours I was DOWN. When I drove myself to a hospital a few days later (fever 102+) I was told that I was lucky that I had a family to take care of me. I was not chosen for a hospital bed. A 24 yr old single male would have gotten one, but I was a 46 year old married woman, so I had ppl to care for me.................... NO CARE at home. Divorce a few years later.

I had double lung pneumonia. I was healthy as a racehorse prior to infection. It came so hard and fast that even now it is hard for me to understand. How one can get that sick that fast is astounding. The pain was overwhelming - every joint in my body ached, my head pounded - I became almost hydrophobic, drinking water made me nauseous. My ex father-in -law liked pills, so I was able to get 30 vicodin that I used over the month I was in bed - I will always be grateful for that. Ibuprofen and tylenol had no effect I could notice.

I had gotten a round of antibiotics at the hospital - I don't think they helped. I was just as sick when I completed them - for another 2 weeks or so.

I lived on chicken broth with garlic, chicken broth with ginger, lemon water and rice crackers exclusively for 3 weeks of my month long illness. Honestly, I don't understand how u can be that sick and LIVE - I felt like I was dying for weeks..

For home care prep - I would put this list out

Organic chicken broth (lots and lots and lots)
raw ginger
raw garlic
rice crackers
honey
lemons
tylenol and ibuprofen
elberberry syrup (wish I had it then)
PAINKILLERS !!!! Your doc will likely not give them to u cuz u could get addicted get creative.

Edited to ADD - TUMERIC - If I ever have to deal with that kind of HELL again I would be ingesting tumeric at as high a dosage my body could handle. Inflammation is the root of all illness and tumeric is the best natural anti inflammatory out there !!

As you wish to die from the overwhelming pain just try thinking about children, pets, wonderful places u have visited............ u can actually leave your body for periods of time if you focus on positive memories and desires.

I am SOOOOOO hoping that my H1N1 gives me some immunity!!

[Delphinus]

6. Wow!

I am glad you lived to share your story - and so sorry that you had to go through it.

I appreciate what you have shared - good information.

Stay well!

[Skittles]

8. what worries me

is I am very healthy and very rarely get sick, but when I do, even a cold will just SLAM me....I do everything I can to avoid illnesses but that it's harder to do during a pandemic

[alittlelark]

11. I haven't been sick since the H1N1

I used to take my health for granted. I now recognize that lightning bolts do indeed hit out of the blue. I am prepared for the worst and lighting candles for the best.

[pansypoo53219]

5. my great-aunt aggressively used her old WARM vapor maker.

[meadowlander]

7. Your natural immune system is always your best defense.

You can start building it up now by:

1. Reducing stress. Don't worry about shit you can't control. Meditate. Do yoga. Seek out empowering information from experts (CDC, WHO). Don't compulsively check the news or google advice from random people on the internet. Check in a couple time a day to see if anything has changed. Spend the rest of your time living your life and doing things that help you relax.

2. Get lots of sleep.

3. Cut down on sugar, fried foods and other inflammatory foods. Eat a balanced diet. Make some stock (beef and chicken). Have some and keep it on hand. The minerals in chicken stock are good for fighting bugs.

4. Stock up on food that's healthy but easy to prepare when you're sick so you can focus on resting and getting better.

COVID-19 is not a bacteria so antibiotics won't work on it. The symptoms are cough, fever and difficulty breathing. What will help is staying hydrated, resting and taking aspirin (or similar) for the fever if it gets bad. If you're having trouble breathing, you should be trying to get to a hospital not treating at home.

Look up how to treat pneumonia from a reputable source. That's the most relevant information.

The medical community has been preparing to deal with a pandemic since the time of the Black Plague. They've got this and they have a good recent track record with SARS, MERS and Ebola.

You're right that one of the best things people can do is be prepared to deal with minor illnesses at home, not panic, leave the masks for the trained professionals who really need them and get ready for the fact that most people are going to get COVID-19 at some stage and most people are going to be OK.

[Drahthaardogs]

9. I have amoxicillin and azithromycin on hand

I also have about 180 chloroquine pills. 50 face masks, some tyvex, and latex gloves(a few boxes) Hope I dont need them.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Antibiotics treat bacteria infections, not viral infections. n/t

[Drahthaardogs]

16. Secondary infections...

Eom.

[Ms. Toad]

17. Which should be managed by a doctor when they occur

To ensure you are not needlessly taking antibiotics (and contributing to the creation of antibiotic resistant bacteria).

[Drahthaardogs]

18. God you are preachy

Im a PhD toxicologist and have a better understanding of microbes than most physicians.

I am fully fucking capable of managing my own antibiotic use.

[Ms. Toad]

19. I have a daughter with an intolerance to most oral antibiotics

Idiots who misuse antibiotics contribute to a reduction of the already smaller reduced of antibiotics she can tolerate That threatens her life, since she has alread had several bouts with cellulitis - one we could not find an effective oral antibiotic that she could tolerate, so we had to treat her at home with IV antibiotics.

So yes, I'm preachy about antibiotc misuse - especially when I see people who brag about stockpiling antibiotics and talking about taking them for viral infections.

[Drahthaardogs]

20. Her "intolerance" is not my problem.

What does that even mean? Sounds like bullshit to me. Like the lady who claimed she got pesticide poisoning from the farmer who waa spraying anhydrous ammonia.


I am prepared as much as I cam be. I am not asking your permission. If this hits and 20% of the infected need hospitalization, we are fucked. It will be critical.

[Ms. Toad]

21. Most oral antibiotics trigger erythema nodosum.

Of the ones I can remember off the top of my head, she has reacted to more than one sulfonamide, two cephalosporins, metronidazole, Clarithromycin, and azithromycin. The only one I know that she does not react to as an oral medication is vancomycin (but that is useless except for gut infections)

Her infectious disease doctor believes her reaction is a combination of her underlying disorder (ulcerative colitis - which carries an independent risk for erythema nodosum) and a reaction to an inactive ingredient in the antibiotics (since she tolerates the same medication via IV at least as to cephalosporins.

That's a pretty offensive response. Do you really think that doctors would prescribe home IV for a middle school student if she tolerated oral antibiotics that were effective against the bateria that is causing her infection?

While the limited number of antibiotics she can tolerate is not your concern, the general problem of creating antibiotic resistant bacterial is a problem all of us need to own. You complained I was being preachy - I was explaining why I react so quickly and strongly when people brag about engaging in the very behavior that contributes to making many common antibiotics largely worthless. It is a matter of life and death for many, not just my daughter. Because it affects my daughter more than most, I am not going to watch bragging about irresponsible behavior without pointing out the public health risk that behavior creates.

WHO’s new Global Antimicrobial Surveillance System (GLASS) reveals widespread occurrence of antibiotic resistance among 500 000 people with suspected bacterial infections across 22 countries.

. . .

Antibiotic resistance is rising to dangerously high levels in all parts of the world. New resistance mechanisms are emerging and spreading globally, threatening our ability to treat common infectious diseases. A growing list of infections – such as pneumonia, tuberculosis, blood poisoning, gonorrhoea, and foodborne diseases – are becoming harder, and sometimes impossible, to treat as antibiotics become less effective.

Where antibiotics can be bought for human or animal use without a prescription, the emergence and spread of resistance is made worse. Similarly, in countries without standard treatment guidelines, antibiotics are often over-prescribed by health workers and veterinarians and over-used by the public.

Without urgent action, we are heading for a post-antibiotic era, in which common infections and minor injuries can once again kill.

. . .

To prevent and control the spread of antibiotic resistance, individuals can:

Only use antibiotics when prescribed by a certified health professional.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/antibiotic-resistance

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/29-01-2018-high-levels-of-antibiotic-resistance-found-worldwide-new-data-shows

[Igel]

10. Moving (3) down to (2) (and 4 down to 3)

requires a bit more that we have. There might be antivirals that help, but those won't be abundant enough.

Most of those in groups 3 and 4 are there because there's some complication. One slice-and-dice approach to the numbers of dead looked at not the overall, but asked two questions: What's the time course of the death rate? and, What's the geographical spread of the death rate?

While the numbers are preliminary and partial, the first question came back with a reassuring answer. The high death rate occurred early, before most of the patients would have gotten appropriate treatment. The high death rate is in China, where early figures skew the mean, and in countries that were also caught off guard as far as hospital care goes. Otherwise the death rate's a lot lower.

It's lower, as people are moved from 4 to 3, because of treatment options.

It's also been pointed out that if you look at the relative health of the same age cohort by country there are differences. Smoking, for instance, is common in some age groups in China but not so common in the same age groups elsewhere. An infected person's prior condition can make the difference between 2 and 3 or 3 and 4.

Just having the infection move through a community after the flu has petered out will be a plus. Yes, the flu may weaken you, and the longer the gap between the two of them (even a mild case of the flu), the better. But it's better than having both the flu and covid-19 concurrently.

Most of the measures now won't stop COVID-19. It will mitigate it. That's the strategy that's being pursued. Slow it down, flatten the infection curve. Then the hospital resources we have will go further--better 100k cases over 6 months than over then next two weeks. It will be easier to procure the necessary supplies. And it will induce less panic. It looks like the infection rate is far from 100%, and it also appears that many are asymptomatic--and while that means it can be spread more easily, it also brings down the hospitalization and death rates. It helps that younger people apparently stay asymptomatic (I find it hard to believe that the virus merely skips them)--it means that population won't need intensive hospitalization.

[alittlelark]

12. The truly scary bottom line is that 'There are Not Enough Beds'

In 2009 I couldn't get a bed with H1N1 in the heart of silicon valley. I rode it out, but I was extremely healthy prior to infection.

I don't think the US is gonna build hospitals in 10 days like they did in China.

[milestogo]

13. 2 could still be a very broad category.

It might include people who are too sick to work or leave home, who need care from others but don't get it. Unable to go out for food or cook for themselves.

And there are always people who should seek a doctors care but don't because they don't have money, insurance, or transportation. So 2 could also move to 3 if you have people with no medical support or social support.

[Ms. Toad]

15. antibiotics treat bacterial infections, not viral ones. n/t

[KentuckyWoman]

22. So far the serious/death rate is about the same as any flu

However if it spreads easier then 7% of 6 Billion people is serious.

WHO said the expect in the next 12 months 80% of the population will be infected but only half that will have symptoms. As usual babies, sick people and elderly are the risk groups.