General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow realistic is it to think you can save yourself economically with a "start-up"?
This idea seems to figure heavily in the minds of the less-wealthy Romney supporters and the teabaggers as a means of personal economic salvation(yes, that sounds Calvinist, and it derives from that most likely).
Do people here see that as a realistic option?
Also, can any of you who has tried that recently(sincere good luck to you if you're trying it now) post your stories of how it went or is going for you?
| 19 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
| ANYONE can make it in a start-up...no one has any excuses not to. | |
2 (11%) |
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| Some people can do it, but not all | |
4 (21%) |
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| Only a few can expect it to work | |
12 (63%) |
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| It's pointless to even try | |
0 (0%) |
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| Other | |
1 (5%) |
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| Meh | |
0 (0%) |
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| Too busy running my lemonaid-rent boys-and-meth stand to answer right now. | |
0 (0%) |
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| No opinion | |
0 (0%) |
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| 0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
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(52,243 posts)leaving open the possibility of even more failing after that, although perhaps some could be considered something of a success if it puts [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bushism|food on your family] for over a year.
the main problem with making a small business succeed is that most people think they just need to be really good at one thing, when in fact they need to be at least minimally competent at a whole host of things. to use a baseball analogy, it's not about being able to hit a home run, it's about being able to get on base and avoid making fielding errors.
there's a big, big difference between being able to make a fantastic cookie and being able to run a bakery. good cookies are actually a small part of it. the truth is that the product only has to be "good enough" for the local market. if there's no other bakery in town, there's little advantage to a brilliant recipe. it just has to be good enough to draw people in.
but then, you have to be at least competent at hiring and firing and setting wages and training and motivating workers and keeping track of money and following regulations and negotiating with suppliers and marketing and on and on.
again it's not about being brilliant at any of these. but sucking at ANY of these can easily destroy a start-up.
finally, even starting a start-up usually requires one to be in a pretty decent financial position in the first place. so "saving oneself economically" isn't usually what a start-up is all about. sometimes it is, sure, but most of the time, no.
treestar
(82,383 posts)If I can't find a job, I'll create one.
Really delusional.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)that the working-class and middle-class have a GREATER obligation to create work than the 1% do.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)not everybody is cut out for it. Many try with unrealistic ideas and expectations..Wholly underestimating the overhead costs of running a business is probably one of the biggest surprises and killers of start-ups. Retail business, including restaurants, owners not understanding sales, marketing, and merchandising kills many start-ups. Poor management skills kills start-ups.
There are a lot of pitfalls, but I know several people who have been successful with a start-up.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)It has become harder and harder and harder. And as soon as you get married and have kids, it becomes necessary to give it up and pledge allegiance to one corporate lord or another if for no better reason than health insurance.
Corporate feudalism.
abumbyanyothername
(2,711 posts)Generally, educated professionals like doctors, lawyers, CPAs, dentists, CFAs etc. can start a small-ish business that depends on their personal services and pays, if wildly successful < $500,000/year.
As to the Steve Jobs/Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg kind of stories . . . not one of them could have done what they did without family/neighborhood connections.
So no, that kind of dream isn't really open to the kid from Watts.
I voted other.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)More like people who'd been in office or factory jobs and then been laid off...OR the kid from Watts(or Pine Ridge, or
San Antonio, or Appalachia).
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Starting their business at the right place and time. It can be a luck thing, not only good luck for the business owner but also the bad luck of others (competitors, customers in desperate need).
It requires an enormous self discipline, hard work, and proper planning especially at first. You still can fail though if it isn't the right time and place. You or anyone else can't predict your eventual success.
I don't think that this time in history is good for large numbers of Americans to try start ups. I think that a large number of start ups in the alternative energy business will help large scale alternative energy to become a reality. I don't think that it is good for the average person starting their own business though. The trend is for large businesses to try to kill off all their competitors and for most new businesses to fail.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)How many inventions have been made in America since the patent system developed? Well under a million. How many people exist in America? 300 million.
How many of those patented inventions have ever been profitable? I'd like to know that, but I know it isn't even 50%. Most inventions go nowhere.
Now, for a more interesting question: what percentage of all start-ups fail? Most likely over 90%.
Each start-up attempt is typically very expensive and can set you back even further than you were before you tried.
This part I know - I only made it on my third startup attempt.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Survival is always a good thing(unless you use the Andean plane crash survivor method, I guess).
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)Ted Turner, who is infinitely more successful than me, once wrote an article about how he struck it rich, and how the industry has closed the doors to others who might try to enter. His words ring true to a far greater scale than I believe he realized back then.
I wish I could find that article.
Success should be defined by how wide you leave the door for others to follow behind you.
k2qb3
(374 posts)All were more or less successful, none made me rich, but all were based on my journeyman carpentry/construction/RE skills during the boom.
I know I can create work for myself, but it isn't necessarily going to pay well or be worth the risk in this economy. I would be terrified of committing my limited savings into a company today without a job w/benefits in the family.
People often don't realize the true value of their compensation until they get hit with the full cost of the payroll tax, insurance of all kinds and on and on and on.
It's a much better option for young people who don't have kids or much savings to risk, you can take a shot and worst case you go bankrupt and start over. A lot of people succeed after failing once or twice and do really well, it's a much bigger risk later in life.
If you do what you know your odds are way better. Most people have a marketable skill of some kind in their profession, and the entire economy seems to be moving to a contractor model anyway, which is a whole other subject that has a lot of implications for everyone.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Since the patent system developed? Holy cow, there are/have been millions and millions. A lot of them make a profit because they are improvements to already successful products applied for by companies already successful selling that item. I would agree it has to be less than 50% profitable..
Edit..looked it up, somewhere north of 8 million patents issued..
http://www.govtech.com/newsletters/Question-of-the-Day-for-081911.html
Of coarse this number doesn't include those items not patented..a lot of things were marked "patent applied for" which had never been applied.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)So workers will be exempt from benefits and other protections afforded to normal employees.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)to work or set up "start-ups" so that they won't stay in any one place long enough to vote...thus, by default, restricting the franchise once again to the minority of people who are property owners.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)20 years and it has been a struggle far more years than not.
Be VERY cautious starting your own business. It is EXACTLY like gambling. I don't recommend you invest anything in one that you cannot afford to lose.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)is that they fail, lay off people, and new ones crop up to take their place, and hire. In other places it is called market churning, but few if any here fail on purpose just to boost the stats.
If they did real stats you would substract the jobs lost from the jobs created, and find on balance that small businesses are valuable, but not as big a contributor to employment gains as advertised.
I can't save myself with my start up, but I might get a more comfortable retirement out of it.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)It's no picnic.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)it's a gamble. Mine was sunk by a local competitor who had political ties that got me in trouble. You never know till you try.
jp11
(2,104 posts)There are so many things involved in succeeding as others have mentioned that your average person can't expect to save themselves like that.
I think that is still part of the American dream/myth that we can all make it if we are just hard working enough and diligent with our dream/business/idea but a huge amount of it is luck.
I also think for a lot of people the financial risks are just too great to take when you have a family to support. Putting your home at risk, walking away from a stable income and many others just can't get any money to risk even if they could they'd be putting off experience in a job/career to gamble that their plan works.
All that and people need to remember that they are competing with so many giant companies that can destroy them if they wanted to. There aren't that many businesses that are going to popular enough to do well that can't be taken up by a competitor with more money, experience, etc.
randome
(34,845 posts)We should not be making life more difficult for people. This is the 21st century. Applying 20th century work ethics to the 21st is pointless. Get over it, Conservatives. The 1950s is so...bleh.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)about 1/3rd survive ten years. Slightly more than 20% survive fifteen years or more - these figures were compiled by the Bureau of Labor statistics:
http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/FINAL%20FAQ%202012%20Sept%202012%20web.pdf
GoCubsGo
(32,084 posts)I am a scientist, not a business person. If I wanted to go into a business, I would have gotten a fucking business degree instead of a biology degree. Why can't these assholes understand that not everything is about business????
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I am over 50 and could not land a job in the last two years. I applied for thousands. In most cases, the vast majority, I did not even receive a response. I have excellent experience, top-notch references, and a strong work ethic. So I looked at online businesses and finally decided to open an online business featuring wellness and nutrition products. I opened my first "store" last month, August 1st, and I actually made a small amount of money. I have received excellent training and been exposed to the different ways I can jump start my business in several different ways, which is what I intend to do. I think it will take months before I am making a few hundred dollars a month, but after that the sky is the limit, depending on which path I pursue. And I am very happy doing this because I am helping people. And I am my own boss. I will never fire me or lay me off because I am over 50.
So perhaps not literally an entrepreneurship but I do have a small business with the capacity to expand internationally. You can find something to put yourself to work if you look hard enough at online opportunities and find one right for you.
Sam
Cleita
(75,480 posts)a way to get money from those who have it, the rich.
Speck Tater
(10,618 posts)...I was laid off and looking for work. I decided to start my own business. It paid the bills for about a year until I found a real job. After that my wife took over running the business and it continued to supply us a small supplementary income for a couple years after that. When we divorced some years later she kept the business, but it didn't last very long.
All things considered, it was more trouble than it was worth, even though it did help us get over a really rough spot. But I soon learned that you don't own a business. A business owns you.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)the two I have now (1 professional services net about 65k per year, one hobbyish nets about 15k per year) together with a seasonal w-2 job (26k per year) provides all my income.
However, it is not for everyone as 'job' skills are not all you need. You could be the great baker and yet run a bakery into the ground quickly without business skills.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)You know, because we ALL have tons of start-up capital, a product to sell, an audience for that product, money to pay for medical care, repeat business and an insane amount of luck which will drive us to be the 1 out of 10 small businesses that DOESN'T fail. We can sure pay the bills on THAT crapshoot.
Ask several DUers who own businesses how easy it is. Republican Libertarians think it's easy, so it MUST be so. That's because many of them aren't DOING it.
There's no way I'd ever even consider it. With a kid attending college next year and a house to pay for, I want and need a steady paycheck. Like I tell my Repub friends . . . you name me the independent business path that grosses me at least $50,000 a year from the word JUMP. Lofty? Sorry. That's my price, and frankly, I don't think that's too much for ANY American to ask for in 2012. I have a house, a car, a kid about to go to college, bills, food, gas, clothing, health care, unexpected triple digit repairs, etc. I can't finance that on a crapshoot. That's what Repubs don't GET. No one HAS to like you or what you're trying to sell. You aren't necessarily going to have the same economic conditions and situations others have at their disposal. Hard work alone does not get you to where you can make a comfortable living. Not all of us want to be rugged individualists. Some of us just want to work.
RichardRay
(2,611 posts)which ain't very.
Why do start ups create so many jobs?
Because there are so damn many of them and they fail so fast.
JI7
(89,250 posts)there are a few that media and other celebrate. but for most it's not realistic including those who do find success which is usually after some years and many hours put in.
ZenLefty
(20,924 posts)Long story short: Aw crap, there really isn't any way to make this long story short. At best, it's going to be medium length.
A few years ago, I got laid off. I knew it was going to happen; my company was in bankruptcy and the end was looming large. There was much drama, and many months of uncertainty. I could have positioned myself so I had a better chance of not getting laid off and saving my job, but I hated that place (we all did) so much that I didn't bother. Effectively, I just coasted until the end, doing a minimal amount of work for my paycheck until finally the axe came down. And when it did, I had such a surplus of happiness I didn't know what to do with it.
I had known for several months that the day would come. I didn't exactly know what I would do when it did, but I was damn sure it wouldn't involve going into the same line of work. Once it happened, I was free. People were crying at the conference room table when I got laid off but I was laughing. I walked out of the building with a vague sense of what I might do.
Basically, I took my woodworking skills and made a small business out of it. I intended to be a small shop cabinetmaker and making commissioned works, but I became this sort of jack-of-all-trades handyman. I was practically a mercenary. Any construction job, from landscaping to ceramic tile to framing and carpentry, I was doing it.
I worked twice as hard, for twice as many hours, for half the pay. And I loved it. Every drop of sweat, every late night working on the accounting, every 16 hour day, I loved it all. I was a one man shop doing whatever people asked me to do. Mostly handyman stuff but also some serious cabinetry and carpentry. I can't stress how much I loved it. Eventually I got to the point I could hire out subcontractors, on a part time as-needed basis. That was exciting beyond belief. That was the realization that, if I kept working at it, I could maybe create full time jobs for people. !!! That is stressful. When you create a job, the last thing you want to do is to fail at your business and have to let people go. The very idea makes me want to vomit. If I make a job for someone, I not only want to give them a good place to work and let them afford a good living, but give them an opportunity to grow. To let them learn, if they wanted, woodworking or craftsman skills that they can use not only at my company but in their own lives. To help them succeed by doing what they enjoy doing. It never got that far, unfortunately (or fortunately - for I never fucked up anyone's life with false hopes) ... read on ...
Money was tight and stress was high, but I was quite successful and it looked like my business was going to prosper. It would never make me rich, but it would easily be enough to make a living and squirrel away enough to retire on before I cut my fingers off.
What killed the dream? Again, long story, but I was sucked back into the fold of the same old line of work I had been in. About a year into my small business, I was presented with a unique opportunity working for a big corporation and, against all better judgement, decided to take it. It was a surprise to myself, but I liked it. The money is good, the work is unique, and the company treats people well. I honestly didn't expect to be working for this company for more than 12 months but I've stuck it out for the long haul.
Someday I'll go back into contracting. I'll probably focus more narrowly than before, like being a cabinetmaker or making furniture, rather than being a mercenary willing to take on any job that comes my way. Be a little more selective. Do what I love to do. But for now, the money is good and the company is good and I'm very happy with where I am. Being my own boss definitely gave me the confidence that I could do it again, if I needed to. If there's any fear of losing my job for whatever reason, I've become completely immune to it.
I don't think it's for everybody, though I do think that everyone should try it once. Even if it's just selling crap they make on the internet. Try it! See if you like it. Running your own business is a really unique experience. Chances are strong your first attempt will fail - I know mine sure skated the edge pretty closely - but if it's something you enjoy and think you can do better, you learn from your mistakes. Don't just do something that you think will make you money. That's basically just a scam, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. If you can find a way to do what you love and make it into what you do for a living, I say go for it.
Again, not for everyone. You have to have some kind of talent or skill set. You have to be prepared for failure. In many cases, you may have to work a "real job" while your small business gets on its feet. You will work hard and for long hours. It may be years before your small business can make enough money that you can pay the rent and work on it full time. But if it's your dream, something you want to do, I say go for it.
Sorry, tried to make a long story short but I couldn't. Thanks for reading.
Freddie
(9,267 posts)He simply could not compete with the huge corporation selling the same product. That's probably the story of many if not most of new businesses that fail.
He tried his best but looking back it was a huge mistake and giving up became a complicated legal mess. 6 years later we're still paying off the debts and our credit is probably permanently destroyed.
Luckily all that time I had a "real" job (gotta keep your health insurance!) and he is working for the folks that put him out of business. They treat him well and he's had several promotions.
But it's NOT for everyone and you can very easily end up way worse off.
nopedontlikeitatall
(44 posts)it was very profitable and 100% tax free!
However there is risk involved and if your business gets to large you will have a big problem with what to do with all the money you are making which causes the IRS to get curious and now today Fatherland Security too.
You also do not get medical, dental or retirement either.
Then there is the problem with employees, can one really trust them in an all cash business even if they are a friend?
It is a good business and there is plenty of demand for it too today.
I closed up shop not because I was not making money, it was because I was making too much money!
I am sure others have had similar business experiences too.
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Venture Capitalists had to assume that 80% of their investments would go belly up within 5 years. However if you managed to pour all your sweat equity into the right start-up from the beginning the rewards were good. But 80% of the time long hours, bad pay and a pink slip within 5yrs.