General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis vicious cycle of electing a Republican President after a successful Democrat needs to stop.
It's like clockwork. A Democratic President cleans up the mess from a Republican. He (and hopefully one day, she) implements responsible economic policies and appoints dedicated public servants, resulting in a strong economy and a government that works.
People then take all of that for granted and elect a Republican to save a few bucks in taxes, and we eventually wind up with an economic collapse and a government that is so inept that people literally suffer and die.
So in response, we elect a Democrat to clean up the mess. Lather, rinse, repeat.
This loop needs to end.
LaurenOlimina
(1,165 posts)Democrats get into power and pussyfoot around. They pressure needs to be year round and all fifty states.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,611 posts)BadgerMom
(2,771 posts)hangaleft
(649 posts)47of74
(18,470 posts)That is so much horse fucking shit. I have no interest in reaching across the aisle to these fucks when if they had their way I and my entire family would be wiped off the face of the Earth. Fuck them. We need to hit them so fucking hard that they scream for peace and we still ignore them.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... wont be in another 20.
C Moon
(12,213 posts)not fooled
(5,801 posts)Saint Ronnie conspired with the Iranian mullahs to hold onto the hostages until literally the moment he was inaugurated (the "Iran" in Iran-Contra), in exchange for parts for their military aircraft etc.
and Tricky Dick conspired with North Vietnam to hold off on signing a peace plan with the Johnson administration, which he knew would lead to a Humphrey victory, telling them he'd give them a better deal after the election.
Thom Hartmann has repeatedly laid this all out on his radio program--we haven't had a legitimately elected Republican president since Eisenhower.
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)The greatest virtue of the Ds is our greatest vice: we are too nice and, ergo, too naive. There are truly vicious and evil forces that are out there like Russians and Rus-publicans including such fine specimens as Roger Stone, Donald Trump, Paul Manafort, Richard Nixon etc. These are some of the worst people in American history.
We cannot take the high road with these mofo's. They will destroy us, our candidates, and our country, as they have done with Trump and W.
We have been nice too long and that is exactly why the cycle you point out exists.
Joltin' Joe Biden: love you, man, and am so glad you are stronger than ever. Fight back as hard as you can with the shite these eff'ers are about to throw you (yet again).
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)Permanent Democratic leadership.
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)woke up the immigrant communities and vote the GOP out. Now the rest of the country needs to follow suit.
"But the proposition changed the political makeup of California. It mobilized Latinos to vote and galvanized voters in the immigrant, Latino, Asian American and African American communities. It also served as a pivotal moment in the lives of Latinos who saw its approval as a call to action and to public service."
"...California voters approved by a vote of 59 percent to 41 percent the Save Our State proposition, known as Prop 187, that would have denied health care, education and other services to anyone believed to be illegally in the country. The state was in a recession as the federal government cut defense spending and aerospace contracts. Californias then Gov. Pete Wilson waged his re-election campaign on the anti-immigrant ballot initiative."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/how-anti-immigrant-ballot-initiative-mobilized-latinos-turned-california-blue-n1078361
C Moon
(12,213 posts)That pissed the hell out of me. And that was the only election in which my vote was stolen.
I went in to vote, and they told me I wasn't registered--even though I received all the mail.
Someone must have re-registered in my name or something and voted with it.
That election to remove Gray Davis was dirty GOP at their evilest.
I was beyond pissed about what happened to Gray Davis! And then to end up with Schwarzengroper of all people topped it off. I couldn't believe so many people would vote for a bonehead with no political credentials, but they did. Cult of celebrity. Arnold really screwed with my money too with those furloughs, as a state worker. I lost a good $15-20,000 from that fiasco.
Maybe the celebrity as president was a trial run, because all Americans then got Trump.
C Moon
(12,213 posts)Do that to the working class, and "oh well." Snarky smile.
But try to do that to the rich, and you'll go to prison.
rampartc
(5,407 posts)the minute another schwarznegger wants to be governor. some of the very worst toxic republicans are spawned in california, including nixon and reagan.
do not take anything for granted.
BadgerMom
(2,771 posts)That clearly isnt enough. We need ironclad laws passed to end gerrymandering and voter suppression. We should look into an updated Fairness Doctrine. We need to legislate to overturn Citizens United.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)The Patriot act, that needs to be repealed and break up monopolies and close all the tax loopholes that enable rich pigs to hide thier income and not pay what they owe.
Frances
(8,545 posts)chowder66
(9,067 posts)If the Democrats could win the Presidency and congress for consecutive terms people would realize how bad it is under the Republicans. Their lives would get better under Democrats and they would "feel" the results.
The problem is that our policies aren't always felt quickly because it takes months or years to a) clean up the mess and b) for the corrections and new policies to kick in which can come late due to the size of the mess.
Those gains typically won't be felt until the next President is elected and then they think it's because of that President.
When a Republican is elected the mess they create is felt under the Democratic president and people have short memories if they pay attention at all and then think it's the Democratic president who is responsible for the previous Presidents mess.
It's a sick cycle.
dchill
(38,488 posts)Seriously, somebody needs to. Corporate interests benefit by the unceasing struggle. Screw that.
certainot
(9,090 posts)rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)There was only one party and thats the FDR PARTY It is about the little guy. This is about us.
Azathoth
(4,608 posts)Unions face the same paradox: don't do too good of a job, because once you make life comfortable enough for people, they will have the luxury of turning on you for selfish reasons.
Initech
(100,068 posts)Just think of where we would be if Fox News hadn't interfered in the 2000 election, or the 2004 election, or the 2016 election. Now with Trump, they have a direct line to the White House. Yeah really, fuck Fox News.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Initech
(100,068 posts)On US soil. And they can get away with it because we don't have hate speech laws And they say some extremely hateful shit.
But I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.
relayerbob
(6,544 posts)They just different party names in bygone years
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)That's our damn job! Sadly, many are not. They're led around by lies and propaganda by their noses.
We have so much power in our votes here. Yet, most don't wield their power, but instead look for others to blame for our failures. Which is really their failure.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Unbelievable amount of information overload. Those charts on deficits and job growth under each president by party are extraordinarily impactful.
lame54
(35,287 posts)Caliman73
(11,736 posts)Here is my take. Democrats believe in good governance. Good governance is difficult and has to take into account multiple competing constituencies. You have to study the problem, propose solutions, map out projected impacts, implement, study the actual impacts, then tweak the policies. It is hard and it is very boring to explain to people. That is what Democrats do. We govern, for everyone.
Republicans do not govern. They base their rhetoric in symbols and ideas like "Freedom", Tax relief, and other less pro-social ideas like fear of "others" taking advantage of the system, taking your hard earned money, etc... They do not govern. They want to rule. They want to implement the policies that benefit the wealthy, encourage unregulated capitalism, and let the chips fall where they may, as they understand that the wealthy will always find ways to stay ahead of the problems. This however, is not a sustainable or popular way to run the government which is why they focus so heavily on using fear and resentment to motivate a smaller, but still sizable group of voters to remain aroused and focused against other people.
Think about it, Clinton's Presidency was not glamorous, it was chipping away at the doldrums caused at the end of Reagan and Bush I. It was a time of vehement over reaction by Republicans who accused Clinton of everything under the sun. Clinton reversed the slide from the Republicans but at a heavy cost. The Obama Presidency was the same. Technical, boring, it was a slog in which the Republicans again were accusing President Obama of being a tyrant and other things.
What has Trump done. He has not made one pro-social proposal. He has not really signed anything into law except a tax cut for the wealthy that is hollowing out the economy. The only thing keeping the economy afloat right now is that the Fed has continued to keep rates low despite needing to raise them to avoid inflation and as a way to have more tools for when the economy really starts to slide.
Bottom line: Democrats govern, which is not sexy and which treats people like adults. Republicans are like "fun dad". They spend without caring about revenue and they don't care if they hurt the poor, working class, and even middle class because they have enough suckers to cheat their way to victory.
UpInArms
(51,282 posts)Am sick of the cycle, also
not fooled
(5,801 posts)that a mere 8 years after the worst financial crisis since the Republican Great Depression, 'Muricans were willing to let another puke get within stealing distance of the White House.
After chimpy lied the nation into war and crashed the economy, no puke should have gotten into the White House ever again, or at least until the party returned to sanity, i.e. no more supply-side voodoo economics.
Both red don and chimpy did, of course, get installed through voter suppression, but even so, enough voters have to go for them to make the scam workable.
marlakay
(11,457 posts)The dems raise taxes a bit to fix whatever huge mess they were left with.
After 4 years of paying a bit more for gas, food and a little less in paycheck the republicans come sweeping in to fix how horrible it is that we are taking away all their money.
They of course never mention how much healthcare goes up when they are in, how many jobs are lost when their screw ups blow up, and how much the deficit goes up.
Not sure how we can fix this because they know we have to raise taxes to fix their messes. If we cut military too much or anything else they will scream about that.
Caliman73
(11,736 posts)You are absolutely correct. Democrats understand that to have a decent life for everyone, that we all have to pitch in a little bit so we generally raise taxes to raise revenue.
Republicans increase spending but never increase revenue (taxes). They just kick the can down the road.
I agree that the problem seems very difficult to fix as people do not like being told to eat their vegetables. They want ice cream!
marlakay
(11,457 posts)To and self centered where everyone wants what is good for them and their families but not the overall good of all.
And only a portion of democrats want overall good on certain things. So you have most of the country centered on what is good for me and my pocketbook.
area51
(11,908 posts)possibly the republinazi party would have a lot fewer voters.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)They dont elect republican lunatics, older voters do.
Celerity
(43,349 posts)Caliman73
(11,736 posts)Children are certainly not the problem, however, I do think that our education system does fail the students by not emphasizing critical thinking skills and also having a much more robust curriculum on government and civics. I think the poster was saying that critical thinking skills might result in fewer adults that would elect Republicans.
I would also say that while children do not vote, thus elect Republicans, young adults who DO NOT show up at the polls an any real significant numbers supporting more progressive candidates, DO also help to get Republicans elected. 18-30 year olds, I believe, are the second largest demographic bloc in voting, but they have horrendous turn out rates.
They could really shape politics if they did more than attend rallies and do social media.
not fooled
(5,801 posts)get rid of civics education in elementary school?
They don't want people understanding how the government works.
And IIRC some fake Xtian sects decry the teaching of critical thinking skills. Literally ban such topics from school curricula. Fundies trained to blindly obey make better subjects for authoritarian rulers.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)pansypoo53219
(20,976 posts)boy. their golden squirrel has given them BIG ratings!democracy? MEH!
3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)I liken Trump to a tapeworm - an ugly parasite that sucks the life out of its host.
pansypoo53219
(20,976 posts)3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)I seldom go to a movie, as I usually fall asleep during them
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,342 posts)From the animated feature Up:
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)A number of people have introduced excellent election security bills which have passed the house but TUrtle will not bring them to the floor for a vote. THat does not even include the vast number of voter suppression tactics they use. Fortunately people like STacy Abrams are taking that on.
Donald Trump was not elected.
Celerity
(43,349 posts)WyattKansas
(1,648 posts)The Democratic Party is forced to fix the problem, but cannot initiate even more spending to help the American People due to the Republican debt leveraged against Social Security for wealthy elite tax cuts. The cycle has been repeated for decades, yet the American People still believe the Republicans give a damn about their Social Security Benefits.
The Democratic Party needs to simplify their explanations of why this country doesn't see progress, because the Republicans have been transferring the American People's progress and Benefit Fund into wealthy elite bank accounts. Democratic politicians... Get pissed about it and beat republicans over and over with it until they are a grease spot.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)Rinse repeat indeed.
We have the extremely wealthy that want to stay that way with little actual effort running things, and some of them just inherit it all, we are insane for letting them?
The stock market itself is a game of the wealthy and the life blood of this "democracy"?
Never should have kept the common workers out of corporate profits, that is where it went all wrong?
Privatizing things that shouldn't be.... another huge blunder?
Things go bad when you give too much to too few and too little to too many?
Let alone this resurgence of man made ignorance for profits?
maxrandb
(15,326 posts)No matter how much a Democratic President rescues the country and the economy from Retrumplican disaster, since it's not fixed in the first month in office, Hate Radio does nothing but brainwash their dipshit listeners that the problems are caused by the Democratic President.
Since Democrats care more about good governance, and people in general, they put their heads down and get to work fixing stuff. Seriously, how many times did you hear Obama blame Bush, or tweet about the stupid corrupt Retrumplicans. Donnie Shit for Brains attacked his predecessor more in 1 hour than President Obama did in 8 years.
By the time November rolls around, Hate Radio will be blaming the stock market collapse on the "chance a democrat may win the election."
Hate Radio, and the folks that support it, including about 80 major University sports programs , MUST BE DESTROYED!
If that means thousands of protesters descending on the offices of local stations like WNIS in Norfolk... that's what needs to happen.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)the fact that republicans do not understand finances. Also the republicans want one party government. They think, through propaganda, that the democrats are taking their money away when they have to pay into Social Security and then giving it away to lazy people when they give Social Security to retirees. As I said, they do not understand finances. They do not understand how insurance works. They do not understand how stupid it is to raid Social Security funds to fund a wall, give rich businesses tax cuts, raise the deductibles on rich peoples taxes. Ergo we have drumpf in the WH, who also does not understand finances.
Harker
(14,015 posts)were well and properly elected.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)A the moment that we really seem to have settled down, then here comes trouble - with a capital T - right here in Rivercity.
The "forgotten ones" (they have been whining since the 1960s, so no, they aren't forgotten, "they" won't let us forget them) always say that their lives aren't being address fast enough, so they have to throw a monkey wrench into the mix.
mahina
(17,651 posts)rickyhall
(4,889 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)institutions that allowed them to take adavantage of millions of Americans and take this country to it knees. Then we bailed the crooks out after making it harder for people to seek relief from them.
There is clearly no comparison between the two parties. There is no choice but to vote for Democrats but I'd rather not have to vote for one with decades of bad decision making..
LiberalFighter
(50,912 posts)The problem with that is you want to continue and improve what you have. If any change is needed then it needs to be selective.
There was a Democratic Senator running for reelection. One of the things he kept saying was about fixing Obamacare. That was the wrong message to put out there. I told his staff that. And told them that it should be about improving it. Using the word fix or fixing is negative. He lost.
DFW
(54,370 posts)This is long, but hear me out.
Carter was elected to restore decency after Nixon. Gerry Ford was a decent guy, but he was NIXON's decent guy, and that wasn't enough decency to erase Nixon's stench. But he ran into some stubling blocks, and the Republicans were able to exploit the Iranian revolution by making a deal with the Ayatollahs over the hostages, and Carter was out.
Clinton smartly realized that it was the economy, stupid, and enough of the country got it. He DID oversee a huge improvement in the economy, so the Republicans focused on made-up social issues, set up Fox Noise, and took over the message. Karl Rove knew enough about the inner workings of the electoral process to set up corruption of vote counting. Jeb Bush took advantage of the Nader phenomenon (where financing for THAT came from is a question for another time) to skew the voting his brother's way, and the Republican majority on the Supreme Court put the last nail in the coffin housing Al Gore's presidency (and the country's finances).
In the transition team from Clinton to Bush, Sandy Berger warned that Al Qaeda was the biggest external threat to national security. Condoleezza Rice said, no, it was Saddam Hussein. Less than 8 months after Cheney's (dba Bush Jr.) inauguration, Al Qaeda gave us 9/11. Cheney uses that to fake the threat from Iraq, and launch the invasion that made him and his company, Halliburton rich for life. The raid on our Treasury sank the country's finances again, and Obama's nomination in 2008 was hard-fought because by then, the Republicans had fucked up the economy so badly, no Republican was ever going to get elected president in 2008. Howard's brilliant stewardship at the DNC helped, of course.
The Republicans knew by 2005 that they were never going to retain the presidency in 2008. "Citizens United," though not yet known by that name, was almost surely in the works by then, and I'm fairly confident that both Roberts and Alito were only nominated to the Supreme Court AFTER promising to endorse such legislation, which Rove knew would be fought all the was to the SCOTUS.
Once Citizens United was in place, although it wasn't nearly enough to dislodge Obama from the White House (it helped that the Republicans had no one palatable to offer as a candidate), it did stymie Obama with a Republican congress for ¾ of his presidency.
Still, after Obama using eight years as president to show America and the world "how this job is done," the logical choice was for Hillary to continue his work. Something REALLY DRASTIC would have to be employed by the Republicans if they were going to stop her presidency. She had the competence, the connections, the ability and the knowledge necessary for a great presidency. They needed outside help for that. A weak roster during the Republican primaries didn't enhance their prospects, either, so they let it fall to the worst possible nominee. After all, it's MUCH easier to explain a thundering loss if you say you nominated the wrong candidate (think Sarah Palin in 2008).
Well, they got their thundering loss in 2016, and took office anyway. The Republicans, really Stalinists at heart already, remembered one of the quotes attributed to Stalin: Those who cast the votes decide nothing--those who count the voted decide everything. It is not without precedent that a State with a Republican governor pulls some funny business to install the losing candidate as president. It worked in Florida in 2000. It worked in Ohio in 2004. But now, with Hillary's huge lead in the popular vote, it would be needed in more than one state to overcome Hillary's huge lead in the popular vote. Good thing for the Republicans that Russia has calculators, too. Three states with Republican governors turned in "surprise upset victories," each by the tiniest of margins, for Trump. Hello, worst case scenario. Surprised? We sure were. Mitch McConnell sure WASN'T. He didn't hold up Garland's seat on the Supreme Court for a year just to have to confront Hillary's first nominee. He knew what was coming. He didn't set this up all by himself, either. Others also knew it was coming. They don't call him "Moscow Mitch" for nothing.
There will be manipulation again this fall-hopefully not enough. With any luck, it will be 2008 all over again, and all you need is the Democratic nomination to be the next president. Then, if they don't mess with the Senatorial races, it will be damage control all over again. We'll need a LOT of it this time. One term for the Democrat elected in 2020, and then two term for his successor. Job for day one, Mr. President: ELECTORAL REFORM. A class A felony for electoral manipulation of ANY kind. Ten years minimum, for any offense, from faking or discarding voter registration to voting rights repression to manipulation of ballot counting, including fooling with the programming of (soon to be obsolete) vote-counting machines. Falsely informing voters of incorrect voting dates or locations, too.
Oh, and one more thing: a proposal of nothing less than a constitutional amendment saying that if you are a citizen of the USA, age 18 on election day or before, you have the right to vote. Period. Let's see the Republicans try to wave their flags and spin THAT one as unpatriotic.
That last one might break the cycle. A US citizen can vote in the USA, and you go to jail for ten years if you try to prevent any of those citizens from voting or having their vote counted. You want to be elected? Get yourself a better idea, not a better heckler, or a better hacker.
Baltimike
(4,143 posts)Perseus
(4,341 posts)It is a level of stupidity that is very hard to understand.
I have been talking about the "Economic Cycle" which to me is a term invented by republicans to justify their lack of government and economic success. It is actually very simple:
1. Republicans take government, the economy goes down.
2. Democrats take office, they fix the mess and the economy goes up.
3. Republicans take government, the economy goes down.
4. Democrats take office, they fix the mess and the economy goes up.
5. etc.
Like you said...Lather, rinse, repeat.
treestar
(82,383 posts)go back and forth, giving each side two terms and then switching.