Just a word on why masks are useless to general public

[SDANation]

So at the hospital, if we are to receive a Covid-19 patient, we are to place the patient in a negative pressure room with enhanced and airborne contact precautions.

Enhanced contact means gown, gloves and MANDATORY hand washing with chlorhexidine wash, no hand sanitizer.

Airborne means we are required to wear N95 masks. At the start of every year, in our facility we are MANDATED to do fit testing. Fit testing is done every year because people gain and lose weight and mask “fitness” changes. We are fit tested for tuberculosis primarily.

During this fit testing, first your face is sized to mask size. Then the tester places a hood on you and sprays and cloyingly sweet spray into the hood. Then you are asked to count to 10 while moving your head up and down left and right. At the conclusion, they ask you if you can taste any of the spray. If no, you pass and that is the mask that will protect you from airborne virus, they have you remove the mask and breathe and the taste makes you want to gag. If you taste that godawful stuff, you won’t forget it and have to try a different mask.

If you taste it, it means that tiny particles can still reach your airway, putting you at risk of exposure.

So if covid 19 is as infectious as is assumed, if you are not fit tested in this manner, this is why the CDC is saying it won’t protect you. You’re more likely to pick it up through contact, so that’s why they are saying hand washing may be more effective.

[hlthe2b]

1. Not only the need for fit testing, but likewise training in removing without self-contamination

which is the most common way HCW's self-contaminate. And the idiots with facial hair that won't shave, have only their selves to blame when the mask fails to protect them.

[SDANation]

2. Exactly!

[customerserviceguy]

3. Regarding masks

Health-care professionals seem to issue two messages:

1) Masks are useless for the general public, therefore all of you untrained people out there should stop buying them up because

2) We health-care professionals need them if we're going to treat all the people who come down with this.

Am I the only one who finds those messages in conflict with each other?

[csziggy]

6. Not really

With the off the shelf, poorly fitting masks that the general public sees, there is really no protection. Health care workers are trained in the fitting and use of the masks that are a higher standard and, properly fitted, provide much more protection.

Just claiming that since masks in general don't protect conflicts with the details in the OP is absurdist.

[Kaleva]

8. It is also absurd to claim that the masks are useless to the general public...

when studies say otherwise.

"In 2012, a team of medical scientists associated with the University of Michigan conducted their research on a larger sample population. The study claims to have the most accurate findings, results being published in the Public Library of Science. The researchers received validation, when a number of renowned pathologist in the USA acknowledged the facts that were presented. The experiment was performed on a total of 1100 participants. For analyzing purposes, a portion of the population was instructed to use facemasks and hand sanitizer and were then exposed to the influenza causing microbes. The findings astonishingly revealed that around 75% of the population expressed no signs or symptoms of the virus. However, the conclusion drawn through this research argued that facemasks alone may not provide with a significant advantage. Only when used along with hand/body sanitizer, can one obstruct a perfect response to the influenza and other contagious illnesses.

The three aforementioned studies, backed with evidence, are sufficient material to support the usage of facemasks. "

https://tophealthjournal.com/1462/what-research-says-about-the-effectiveness-of-face-masks/

[csziggy]

12. Interesting studies and we can hope they are true

Of course, since it is getting harder and harder to get masks, this whole discussion may be moot.

Then there is this - I am prejudiced against face masks since they give me a sense of claustrophobia. I don't have a problem with tight places unless there is no air flow and face masks limit the air movement and make me feel as if I were drowning. SO I've never consistently used them and will make no effort to obtain them. If I get sick, I will stay home.

[Kaleva]

16. I bought masks in January but don't intend to use them unless there's outbreaks in my area.

Everyday I disinfect high touch items in my home but that's more for training. Training myself to get used to a new routine. It took me awhile, when I first became a foster parent some years ago, to train myself to wash my hands properly.

[SDANation]

14. CDC recommends N95 masking for healthcare workers

They don’t recommend N95 for influenza. Not all masks are created equal.

[Kaleva]

15. Most of us aren't health care workers

The needs are not the same.

[SDANation]

17. That's what I'm trying to convey

If CDC is recommending, not standard droplet masks, which we use for flu patients and recommending N95, which offers a higher degree of protection. Than if the general public uses standard masks or is not properly “fitted” for N95, its next to useless.

[Kaleva]

19. I've cited several studies that found that masks can be effective.

The loose fiting surgical types.

[SDANation]

21. Yes, the articles that talk about the flu

Not covid 19.

[Kaleva]

24. But they are transmited much the same way.

[SDANation]

27. Yes, but covid is smaller and they are still trying to nail down

How easily it transmits through the air, that’s why the extra precaution with N95. We can’t use regular mask with TB or measles, because of how easily it transmits through the air.

[Kaleva]

31. But COVID-19, like flu viruses, can ride on droplets or dust particles which facemasks can stop

[stopdiggin]

26. your "next to useless" is the part

where your statement falls apart. Links posted saying they are effective to some degree.
It's pretty obvious that the general public is not going to be wearing fitted (N95) gear out to the grocery store.

[SDANation]

28. It's not gear. It's a disposable mask.

[SDANation]

29. And the articles are based on the Flu not Covid 19.

[stopdiggin]

32. so you're sticking with "next to useless?"

and discounting studies done on another variety of virus? Okie dokie then.

[SDANation]

33. No, sticking with standard of practice

We don’t use regular masks with tuberculosis or measles. Both require N95. The CDC recommends N95. So yes if the CDC is recommending N95, a regular mask is next to useless.

[customerserviceguy]

9. Then health-care workers

need to find a better way of communicating this. The OP is a good attempt, but it needs to be more concise.

Or, maybe people who buy masks need some training videos on YouTube that they can refer to for better protection.

We just have a few surgical masks in the car, but since we're not going anywhere for the next couple of months (beyond a necessary medical appointment on Tuesday), we won't need masks beyond that.

[csziggy]

22. Since the "leader" for communication right now in the USA is Pence

I doubt we will get a better message.

Here is a video on fitting the N95 mask discussed in the article in the OP:

As you can see, that is a completely different mask than those available (at normal times) to the general public.

Here are some that discuss the use and fitting of various types of masks:

Most of the videos on YouTube for "how to fit face mask" are for fitting CPAP masks, but there are a number for fitting medical masks of various types.

I'm mostly staying home, but since we're adding onto our house, there are a lot of people coming and going. Most trips into town are for medical visits and grocery shopping. Since over 1/3 of our house is not habitable right now, we have no space to stock up if I were of a mind to. And as I explained above, I really cannot abide wearing a mask so wouldn't unless I was symptomatic or had proven exposure.

[customerserviceguy]

23. Thanks for posting those videos

Any chance the CDC will link to them on their website? Or will they still push the double message?

[csziggy]

30. Here is an article on the CDC site about respirators

That links to a video made by NIOSH with basic facts about them:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/particle.html

Video:

Here is a more detailed NIOSH article about testing respirators:
https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2014/04/02/respirator-filter-testing/
[link:https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/infectioncontrol/maskguidance.htm|
Interim Guidance for the Use of Masks to Control Seasonal Influenza Virus Transmission] is from a year ago and gives some good information.

Here is the search results page from the CDC on "fitting masks": https://search.cdc.gov/search/?query=fitting+masks&utf8=%E2%9C%93&affiliate=cdc-main

[Kaleva]

4. Several studies say that masks can be effective.

"According to a study published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases, families with kids who had flu-like symptoms and used the masks properly were 80% less likely to be diagnosed with the same thing.

Another study looked at 400 people who had the flu found that family members who wore a surgical mask and washed their hands reduced their chance of getting the flu by 70%.

“Individual brands of masks and that sort of thing hasn't been studied, but the few studies that have looked at them do have an effect – in some studies, up to 50 to 80% reduction in transmission,” UW virology expert Alex Greninger said. “They seem to stop large droplets, and I think the other key thing to mention with masks is that it really depends on what you're willing to wear.”

Coronavirus is most commonly spread through the air by coughing or sneezing or though close personal contact, such as touching or shaking hands, according to the Washington State Department of Health.

While masks do seem promising, it's also important to utilize other preventive measures. Make sure you wash your hands often during flu season, especially if you're around others who may be sick. Also, be sure to get your annual flu shot to protect yourself and others from spreading the virus."

https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/surgical-mask-effectiveness/281-9c762e52-c2ec-4dec-b5f3-77ee833fca1e

"At the start of flu season in the last two years, participants were randomly assigned to six weeks of wearing a standard medical procedure mask alone, mask use and hand sanitizer use, or a control group with no intervention. Researchers followed students for incidence of influenza like illness symptoms, defined as cough with at least one other characteristic symptom such as fever, chills or body aches, Monto said.

From the third week on, both the mask only and mask/hand sanitizer interventions showed a significant or nearly significant reduction in the rate of influenza-like illness symptoms in comparison to the control group. The observed reduction in rate of flu-like symptoms remained even after adjusting for gender, race/ethnicity, hand washing practices, sleep quality, and flu vaccination."

https://news.umich.edu/masks-hand-washing-prevent-spread-of-flu-like-symptoms-by-up-to-50-percent/

I'd rather err on the side of caution so I bought masks back in Janurary before they zoomed up in price and became hard to get.

[SDANation]

13. CDC recommendation is to use N95 for protection

With flu patients standard masks are used. Not N95. N95 is a step above regular droplet masks.

[Kaleva]

25. I agree that N95 masks are a step up from facemasks.

[silverweb]

7. It's still better than nothing.

At the very least, it may protect some against larger air droplets and block a portion of the virus particles.

I'm thinking there might be a simple way to enhance the minimal protection regular masks provide, though. Anyone familiar with essential oils knows that many of them are antibacterial, antiviral, and/or antifungal.

Maybe if a mask was saturated with oils confirmed to be antiviral, left to sit for a while, then blotted as dry as possible, the essential oils would impregnate the fibers of the mask and actually kill the virus particles trying to get through. To prevent skin irritation from the undiluted oils, either a second, untreated mask could be worn under the treated one or some kind of liner could be attached to it.

Here's an excellent article about how essential oils work, reference to those that are antiviral with recommendations, as well as NIH and PubMed references: https://anandaessentialoils.com/2013/10/21/antiviral-essential-oils/

I don't know if this idea would actually work, but it seems logical to think that it could. "If it can't hurt and might help, do it" is one of my most used mottos and I think it applies here. What say you?

[Kaleva]

10. Masks are just one tool in the toolbox.

[silverweb]

11. Of course.

But did you read my whole post? I also talk about enhancement with another "tool in the toolbox."

[Kaleva]

18. I'd do some more reading about adding oils to masks before doing so.

[silverweb]

20. PubMed has quite a bit.

About the oils, I mean. Putting them on the masks is just my idea, but it doesn't seem illogical.

[uppityperson]

35. Virus also enter through eyes. How to protect them? As far as "it wouldn't hurt"...

I'm a healthcare provider and am having difficulty finding masks to use caring for people because frightened public has bought them up and imports are down.

Leave them for those who need them to care for the ill because lack of ppe's sure hurts us.

[silverweb]

37. Perhaps glasses to help protect the eyes?

I wear them because I'm as good as blind without them, but plano lenses would work for people who don't otherwise need them.

As for masks, I understand the shortage and hope you're able to get everything you need very soon. The mask I have I saved from the last bad fires in the area, when they were distributed for smoke. Lots of people already have masks, whether good ones or not, so enhancing them might enable them to work better.

Nothing is going to protect people from this virus completely, but I would hope that everything that might safely help should be tried.

Thank you for your work in healthcare, especially during this time when so many people are frightened and confused. Stay well and safe.

[Kaleva]

34. I think the mistake you are making is equating the needs of health care workers with the public

When I was in the Navy, we were trained on the use of OBAs to fight fires. But to escape an area with hazardous conditions such as fire, smoke, poisonous gases etc. we were trained on the use of an EEBD. The two had similar functions, provide air, but were not interchangeable. Wearing an OBA to escape would be overkill and wearing an EEBD to fight a fire would be suicide. The first aid training I took as a foster parent was adequate for me as a foster parent but would be woefully inadequate for an EMT.

[RealityChik]

36. Masks good for something I never considered...

For the brief time I was required to wear a mask, I became more aware of not touching my face, a habit I am guilty of, without thinking.

But I discovered yesterday during my trip to Costco that wearing gloves also provided me with the same awareness, so now I wear them whenever I'm out in public, to save me from myself!

So, just saying...mask stocks are being depleted so we shouldn't wear them without a good reason. But gloves also increase awareness of touching the face so maybe is better alternative. BTW, Costco in Silverdale, WA had just restocked glove supply and had cases of them.

And one last thing about Costco. Kudos to them for taking the virus prevention very seriously. All carts being returned from parking lot were being disinfected immediately. There were workers throughout the store continuously disinfacting all commonly touched handles, food cases, etc. All employees were wearing gloves and no sample giveaways were happening anywhere in the store. Customers were being kind to each other and no road rage in the parking lot. All very comforting!