video of people rushing to escape the "red zone" before Italy quarantines 16 million

[Demovictory9]

Link to tweet

[madaboutharry]

1. Some of those people are going to have the virus

and infect people in other locations.

What a nightmare.

[Demovictory9]

3. exactly. some are rushing off with the Coronavirus on their person

[dalton99a]

9. Documented infections from travelers from Italy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Italy#Spread_to_other_countries_and_territories

[dalton99a]

2. The quarantine is working well

[Pachamama]

10. +10000

[Flaleftist]

17. Yes. I hear it's perfect.

[elleng]

4. WOW!

Glad our Italian honeymoon was in 1984. (April)

[lapfog_1]

5. I wonder how many of those running to escape

are asymptomatic carriers of Covid-19?

1 in 1000? 1 in 100?

where are they going?

and with the infection index of 2 or 3... yikes

[icymist]

6. Well, that's not going to help contain the virus.

eom

[Newest Reality]

7. So, ah...

It's a reverse quarantine? A backwards lock down?

That's as confusing as Doctor Trump Casey, P.P.

[babylonsister]

8. I would imagine they are people going home and/or to loved ones.

Sounds very scary to me; that's where I'd want to be. I imagine there was no possibility of testing everyone.

[Pachamama]

11. A proper quarantine would have had the trains coming in the direction towards them

...not away from the quarantine.

Of course these people are seeking to get either “home” or to another place where they want to be...

But there is a REASON to quarantine and keep them there....

Sigh...so if any of them are infected and asymptomatic they now take it to the next destination that will need to be quarantined...

[babylonsister]

13. They might be thinking their

government could be lying, too. How do you really quarantine that many people anyway?

[Igel]

20. Once China said, "We need to do this," they easily found a way.

It's what you need if you're going to have a top-down centralized response.

1. Shut the roads. Put police at roadblocks to keep people from getting out. And have people monitor the police. Even in China, reports were that local police had compassion for relatives and let them out.

2. Stop the trains and planes.

3. Announce the lock-down.

4. Flip the script. Put up roadblocks to keep people from getting *into* adjacent provinces.

A people that can't be cohesive in the face of a threat that could kill a decent percentage of their members isn't a people but the demographic equivalent of a rubble-pile asteroid: A lot of little things that just happen to be stuck together for a while, but has no real integrity or cohesion.

[Wounded Bear]

23. They are already authoritarian, western countries aren't that, yet...

My long term fear is that thiw will be used as a reason to complete the process here in the US and elsewhere.

[magicarpet]

27. You are so right,...

Just a,...

Hop,

Skip,

&

Jump....

Then full blast Fascism.

[misanthrope]

12. I understand that compulsion

There's also the chance they could be doing something that kills one of those loved ones, too.

[Demovictory9]

19. I do too. a month is a long time to be in quarantine

[defacto7]

14. The government should have known better than to announce it.

That exacerbates the problem. China didn't announce it, they just did it and that's the only way it works. You could never do that in the US though, announce it or not.

[Hortensis]

18. I don't think we should assume it works as well as reported

in China. China's a huge nation with many millions who fear and distrust, and despise the government, and have been forced to develop ways of getting around controls for several decades. Not to say the power of central authoritarian government isn't extremely valuable in this situation, but... I'm guessing a whole lot of people who've come down with colds now have to hide that they broke quarantine.

But the assumption that the government should have hid vital information from their entire nation,... Really? Are we sure that's the best course or that this government was trump-level stupid not to foresee the results of advance notice of impending quarantine?

It made me think about it and wish I knew more. Fascinating topic. It seems probable that, quite aside from a duty to inform, government and epidemiology control experts want those who need to leave to do it now.

[Igel]

21. It wasn't reported on working.

It was reported that it was instituted. It was leaky. A lot of people got out before it was put in place, leading to secondary and tertiary quarantines.

We don't need reports on how the quarantine itself worked. We saw enough reporting on how horrible it was to be under the quarantine (not "it's painful but good," but "oh, the humanity! the cruelty!" stories). Still, the results show that it worked fairly well.

Of course, the reporting at that point was "Well, it wasn't *perfect* so what's the point?"

Abductive thinking is a simulacrum of logic; knee-jerk criticism is a simulacrum of critical thinking. We see a lot of each by preeners.

[defacto7]

22. Your point is well taken.

Sometimes I look at actions or policies on a purely technical level to see if it has any logical merit. If not then there's no reason to think further. If it can work then I think about social and political concerns then last but definitely not least the moral issues. I don’t think I can get farther than the first step on this one. Did these extreme measures work in China? Who knows, but it had an effect though I'm not sure what it was ultimately. The only way such draconian measures can work, if at all, is if it's airtight and totalitarian. If it's not then it only creates panic and exaserbates the spread more than if they took a reasonable approach and made the public part of the solution, having a common goal. By announcing that they are going to lock in 16 million people they in essence are screaming "run for your lives". Not good. Infected persons running away from captivity headlong into an uninfected area within or out of the country is disasterous.
No, I don't think manditory quarentine of millions is a useful answer on several levels. I don't even have to consider the moral question because it comes to a dead halt logically.
The best way to deal with this is outside of my ability to conclude, but unifying the public in a common goal seems the best direction rather than alienation. I probably should have said that before.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. It was leaked

Thousands crowded train stations or jumped into their cars after details of a draft decree banning people from leaving or entering the region were revealed by Corriere della Sera late on Saturday afternoon.
...
“What happened with the news leak has caused many people to try to escape, causing the opposite effect of what the decree is trying to achieve,” warned Roberto Burioni, a professor of microbiology and virology at the Vita-Salute San Raffaele University in Milan. “Unfortunately some of those who fled will be infected with the disease.”
...
The leak of the decree and ensuing panic however sparked harsh criticism from officials. Ricciardi, who was among the team of scientists who signed it, said that he assumed it must have leaked when the prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, sent the draft to the regions to get their consent. “It means that sometimes both people from the institutions and people from the press do not feel a sense of responsibility,” he said. “These kinds of procedures have to be taken very confidentially in order not to provoke panic among the people and inappropriate behaviours.”

Conte said the news leak was “unacceptable”. “This news created uncertainty, insecurity and confusion, and we cannot tolerate this,” he said during a press conference in the early hours of Sunday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/08/leaked-coronavirus-plan-to-quarantine-16m-sparks-chaos-in-italy

[defacto7]

31. Ah, thank you for clarifying.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

15. uMM, CAN I ask a couple of simple questions? Have ALL these people been tested because

otherwise, this seems to be defeating the purpose of quarantine. Secondly, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK are they thinking because this just looks to me as if the idiots running as fast as they can to SPREAD IT FURTHER...Okay, maybe I had just 1 question & that's Why are the health officials allowing this?

[SiliconValley_Dem]

16. Sounds like a solid idea

[DFW]

24. I just saw a friend from the Bologna area yesterday in Munich

He was headed home. Since he's from there, they'll probably let him in. No idea if they'll let him out again.

[NutmegYankee]

25. Why does this surprise anyone? It's human nature.

Quarantine has a long and very old common meaning of "locked in and left to die". People who aren't resigned to their fate will flee to safety to avoid being quarantined. This isn't higher order brain thinking here, it's the more primitive self preservation parts taking over, primarily driven by fear.

[dewsgirl]

26. We don't have a travel ban from Italy, do we? I'm pretty

sure they weren't even screening, I really hope I am wrong.

[empedocles]

28. Was it 6 million who fled Wuhan before the shutdown?

How did that impact?

[customerserviceguy]

29. You cannot announce a quarantine

before removing easy means to escape it.

[LisaL]

32. Sounds like quarantine is going to make it worse because it forced people to run

from an area that is going to be quarantined.