Will the move to online classes doom the idea of physical college campuses?

[stopbush]

As a response to the Coronavirus, colleges and universities are shuttering their physical classrooms, moving instruction to online courses.

Will this have a long-term effect on the very concept of a college being located in a specific physical space? If online learning is as effective as on-site learning, what is the rationale behind spending the millions of dollars a year it takes to support the typical college campus? Teacher salaries and benefits, administrative staff, maintenance works, dorms, utility bills, cafeterias etc etc. Is it all really necessary to get a higher education in today’s online-everything world? And if it IS necessary, then how do colleges justify their current move to online instruction as a response to the virus? If online learning is not as good as on-site learning, will any degrees earned during this crisis via online courses come with an asterisk?

And what about the prospect of students NOT incurring the massive debt that comes with attending college on site? It’s not just tuition that costs money. It’s housing and meals and textbooks and transportation etc, all those expenses one doesn’t have when taking courses online from home.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

1. No, it will just emphasize the weaknesses in online learning.

And, any lab setting will be lost, especially labs involving work among teams.

Then there's the whole social aspect. One major loss: Ann Arbor's "Hash Bash" will not be held on the Diag next month, alas.

[defacto7]

3. This!

[redstatebluegirl]

32. This!

Do you want a doctor who never took an onsite lab course? I sure don't . I don't want an engineer who never took a real physics course. This will show how weak this online courses are. How in the world do you monitor cheating? When someone in admin at our campus was asked he actually said "you can't".

[MineralMan]

2. That thought occurred to me, as well.

I don't know. It will depend on how long the physical colleges are shut down.

If online learning could replace the physical college campus, I'd be all for it. I don't know if students will do the necessary work or pay the necessary attention, though.

It would surely be a lot less expensive, though.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. It Creates A Home Industry.

Want a degree, but don't want to do the work.
Pay me (hypothetical "me&quot the room & board $ and I'll do the homework & take the tests!
I get paid, you get your degree.
Seriously, I hope this doesn't cause the change suggested in the OP.
I have reservations about the efficacy or wholly online learning.

[exboyfil]

9. Good colleges have proctoring requirements

I am not saying they are perfect, but even in large sections at colleges you can have problems with folks taking tests for other people. You already have the problem with take home tests and essays.

Public libraries are proctoring sites. You could easily set up high schools to do the same with just a little bit of funding. Employers have also been set up as proctors. Colleges also have proctoring services for their own students as well as students from other colleges.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

18. Our college uses ProctorU, an online proctoring service

[exboyfil]

22. I assume you use the camera from the computer

How do you avoid someone scanning a cheat sheet out of view of the camera? That would be extremely useful in a math or engineering course.

[MineralMan]

25. Students who cheat only cheat themselves.

There are such students in any academic environment. They tend to do poorly later in life, when their lack of actual knowledge becomes apparent.

[exboyfil]

27. Very true

I was just wondering how that was addressed.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

47. I've been retired a couple years but IIRC it monitors eye movements and other tells.

I think students also had to pan the camera all around the room before they started. Sure, some cheaters will always sneak through but most will try old tried and true methods that the proctoring pros are wise to.

[MineralMan]

14. Oddly enough, though, for some students,

it would work just fine. They are in the minority, though.

[MichMan]

8. Are the colleges giving refunds for those forced to go online?

Undoubtedly it costs much less on line than being at a big campus. Are those colleges that cancelled classes and forced everyone to attend on line refunding any $$$

[exboyfil]

13. That aint happening

In fact many colleges actually charge more to take a course online (for example Masters level courses often have a technology fee associated with them).

[MineralMan]

17. Probably not. Not this semester, anyhow.

[greenjar_01]

33. Apart from some facilities costs

I don't think there's going to be a lot of cost savings from emergency online course conversions. It may even be more expensive if some schools are adding new tools, requiring a bunch of extra hours for teaching/learning support staff, etc. The idea that switching to online is going to be some massive or even modest revenue boon for schools does not really show much awareness of higher education economics. It might be a loss overall, in fact, especially if it affects retention, as many are predicting.

[LisaM]

19. Part of college is the shared experience.

That's why sports teams have a disproportionate place.

The time I spent on campus made an immeasurable change in my life. I would be sad if students today couldn't experience that.

[MineralMan]

23. Yes, there is that, of course.

That social experience, though, comes at a very high cost.

For me, it was never that much a part of my education. I attended a couple of different universities in the longish course of acquiring diplomas. With the exception of my freshman year the first time I was at the university, though, I lived off-campus and worked, so I had little to do with the college social experience. It was the academic experience and access to additional information that was important to me. Without the university library, I would not have been able to explore beyond what was presented in the classroom.

Today, that is not an issue, though. That additional information is instantly available online and is even more complete that any university library would provide. On the academic side, for me, my classes were nothing more than a framework for further study. The campus environment added little to that further study.

I have never attended a college or university sports event, and my social life all took place off-campus.

During my life, I have explored multiple disciplines in depth. All of that took place with no formal instruction. I'm a highly self-motivated learner, though, so I'm probably not typical of most people.

[greenjar_01]

36. Most universities are presenting the change as an emergency change to remote courses

Not as an online course. Online courses have distinct pedagogies that require training and very often certification, if in-house. This is something completely different, a stop-gap instructional continuity plan, not a series of online courses. They might be delivered online, but that's a different thing.

[exboyfil]

5. Unless it is a lab or design course

I bet the majority of Freshman classes are already offered online in general.

My daughter actually took Communications online. As weird as it sounds, it was a pretty good course. She had to shown videotaping herself speaking in front a group of people (the number went up as the course progressed). She actually spoke to a room full of people at her grandparent's wedding anniversary celebration for her final project.

Both my daughters had 60 plus hours of college online courses.

This being said I think at least one year in a physical setting is highly beneficial even for courses that don't require lab equipment, etc.

[greenjar_01]

28. Students have the option of online or in-person

Many students continue to select in-person classes; many also consider online classes to be an annoying chore - they take them for the required courses they don't care about, mostly.

That's not for all of them. There are some brilliant online courses and online teachers, and students can even love the delivery mode. But there's a lot of snickering about how easy they are, when students are not complaining about endless and pointless "discussion board" posts.

[Salviati]

6. As a college instructor

Having to move my classes online next quarter, I'll be able to do it, and it will work ok, but it is not going to be ideal. There is no way it will be as effective for all students. For some it will work just fine, but for many the learning gains will be reduced substantially.

For any instructors going beyond the "lecture at students for 50 minutes", the lack of physical interaction with students is going to greatly diminish the benefits of interactivity. All online interactions have to be intentionally mediated, so there is going to be much less opportunity to catch a problem a student is having when you're looking at some unrelated work, or you overhear them express a mistaken idea when collaborating with other students.

We're going to make it work this quarter, because what else can we do, and we may pick up some tools that will help overall effectiveness during normal operations, but I have to believe that for most classes, and most students, these classes are going to be less effective overall.

[MineralMan]

12. Thanks for that input.

A lot of students don't try very hard, anyhow. Those will not do well in an online learning setting. However, others are well-motivated to learn, and they'd do fine, I think.

As a lifelong autodidact, I learned far more in my independent studies on my own initiative than I ever did in my university classes. I got the degrees, with honors, but that was just the shell of my education. No credits for that, but those independent studies were what was responsible for my success in life, not the degree program.

[exboyfil]

20. Yes project classes would be difficult if the students

meet during your instructional time to work on projects. I wonder if you could set up multiple Skype sessions while the students are meeting, and flip between them (also allowing them to raise their hand with questions).

Physical things like labs or art projects you have to have before you are going to be impossible. It is definitely far from an ideal situation.

[MineralMan]

37. There is a lot of workgroup software out there.

Freelancers like myself have been using it for years to collaborate with clients.

Labs are more of a challenge, to be sure.

[Salviati]

45. The main class I teach involves a lot of small group work

mediated by myself and TA's floating around the room and discussing the work with groups. There is some software that can apparently work like this, with a large group session, along with small breakout groups. One of my colleagues has been field testing it during the last week of this quarter during the suspension of in person classes, and according to him it went moderately successful, or at least it was not completely unsuccessful by the end of the week.

Hopefully that will work reasonably well for maintaining some of the collaborative nature of the class, but a lot of next quarter will be playing by ear, and being satisfied with solutions and outcomes that are "good enough"

[jpak]

7. On-line classes are very poor relative to live classes

This is why we have teachers AND textbooks.

It works.

[NutmegYankee]

10. No. The classroom experience is always better.

Not to mention the social world on a campus.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

11. Online course support was a big part of what I did before I retired a couple years ago.

I've been doing a little consulting with the folks I left behind this past week as they go into a crisis plan.
And the short answer is 'no.'
The most effective way to go is hybrid, which involves a flipped classroom approach in which you deliver the static stuff like lectures online while using classroom time for things like group work or one on one assistance.

Lab time is the only thing students will be allowed on campus for over the next couple weeks or so.

[zackymilly]

15. This may be the free college Bernie's been talking about. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

39. Just give everyone a degree after paying a $50 fee.

[Politicub]

16. No. Why would it?

I suppose there could be evidence that some course outcomes aren't affected by taking the class online versus in a classroom. That will not be the case for most courses, IMHO.

It's a big experiment that is happening in real-time. I guess we'll see the outcomes.

[Hoyt]

21. Think it will work fine for some courses and might be a way to reduce cost of college.

I can see something like on-line courses for the first year or two at some colleges, then campus work.

Can also see some courses on-line and some on campus during same semester, etc.

Really do believe the CoVid-19 will cause profound change in our society, hopefully for the better.

[genxlib]

24. Having the kids go away for school is one of the best parts

There is a great deal more to be learned at college than simply the contents of the lectures.

Besides, how are we ever going to get the kids out of the house if we can't send them away?

[greenjar_01]

26. Probably not, since it's going to be a disaster

[Pachamama]

29. No - my daughter home from Berkeley is complaining that it's not the same (especially for labs)

....and it’s much harder she says.

She also is missing the social interactions that you can’t get with “online”.

I suggested that she might have to live at home next school year and she nearly lost it on me.

If I don’t check in on DU, my daughter might have killed me and buried me in the backyard...

This is going to be a long difficult time....

[Meadowoak]

30. I'm sure Ditsy DeVos's is also salivating at the idea of closing public schools

Indefinitely and going with online instruction.

[lindysalsagal]

31. Will it doom k-12, as well????

Personally, I doubt it.

[JCMach1]

34. It has already changed almost 80% are PT instructors

Higher Ed. Was already McDonald's, it's just that no one noticed

[a la izquierda]

35. Hope not, but it's a concern among my colleagues.

I teach online quite a bit (summer classes or mid-semester classes).
I hate it. Legitimately hate it. I get why they’re good for some people.
But it is not the same at all.

[tirebiter]

38. I'm taking an arc welding class

It requires actual stig and mig welding to get skilled.

[LiberalFighter]

40. Virtual Reality?

[tirebiter]

46. Nope

Gotta be the real thing. I have a reasonable teacher and the jr college is too. I’m sure we’ll figure something out. There’s just no single answer.

I’ve also got a computerized music class that requires software that I cannot afford. They’ve got it to use in our music library but that’s in a social setting.

[LiberalFighter]

41. There are many classes that require more than just book learning.

[LiberalFighter]

42. Should be interesting to see how this plays out with athletics.

[gibraltar72]

43. I have had the same thought

I'm guessing some of the larger brick and mortar colleges are uneasy.

[tblue37]

44. I just retired last year from teaching college. I couldn't have taught my classes

anywhere near as effectively if I had not been able to interact in the classroom and during face to face conferences with my students.

[cally]

48. I have a masters that was completely online

and a masters from a traditional learning program. I learned much more in traditional program. The online program did require group projects and tried to encourage that shared learning but it was not the same. Most of the coursework was papers so I admit I did not do all the reading nor remember everything presented as I did the first round. I also would typically multi task while I listened to lectures. I suspect I was not alone.

[Yavin4]

49. The best educational experience that I have ever had was online

I say that after getting my undergrad and grad degrees in tradtional physical classes. I took online classes in Machine Learning and Data Analysis, and it was great.

The classes consisted of video instructions, and I could go back and review the lectures. At the end of each lecture, there small quizzes or lessons. At the end of the course, you had to submit a project. Your project was evaluated and sent back to you to correct any errors.

Online education is the future of education. It lowers costs and still delivers a high quality experience.