General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA few days ago, I posted about what I saw as the possibility of Trump "postponing" the
election due to the pandemic. Many responded along the lines of "That's silly! He CAN'T do that. He has no authority to do that. It violates the law, etc, etc."
All those comments could be applied to Republican Ohio governor DeWine's desire to postpone today's primary election.
He just did it.
As far as the current GOP is concerned, "We don't need no stinkin' laws" whenever they stand in the way of something they really want to do. In this case, "postponing" the primary to June (when things will likely be worse), encourages the Sanders camp to prolong the primary fight and give Trump an open field for his campaign in the swing states.
Between the Russians, the RW billionaires, the white supremacists and the Bernie Bros, I believe the odds of Trump cancelling, postponing or quarantining the election just increased. We now have a "precedent".
edhopper
(33,652 posts)Not so sure now.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)They are not constitutionally mandated.
Phoenix61
(17,023 posts)Ohiogal
(32,149 posts)Amishman
(5,559 posts)There should be immediate contingency plans put in place by all states for voting entirely by mail.
A slight delay in a crisis like this is tolerable as long as we are moving as quickly as possible towards the alternative method of voting.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)The president CAN NOT. The reason is that elections are controlled by the states.
-Laelth
no_hypocrisy
(46,274 posts)(republican) governors may be able to get away with that.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)If their states dont hold elections, then the states that do hold elections will select a new president without their input.
-Laelth
no_hypocrisy
(46,274 posts)regarded as valid. MAGAts will insist that it was a democratic coupe.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Its a recipe for civil discontent, to be sure.
-Laelth
illegal smile
(21 posts)States have constitutions too, and DeWine violated ours, was overruled by a judge, and violated it again. I don't question his intentions but the precedent is in fact very bad.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Whos going to stop them? Their actions may be illegal or unconstitutional, sure, but that doesnt mean that the Governor CANT do it.
-Laelth
Atticus
(15,124 posts)the election. So he evaded that order by "quarantining" all polling places.
Believe me, I wish I could agree with you. I just don't believe that Trump et al will "fight fair". We can't afford to "bring a casserole" to this gunfight.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Doesnt mean he will. I certainly hope he does.
-Laelth
Atticus
(15,124 posts)people from voting. Rest assured that even IF some method of voting is thrown together (by mail?), the ads, and blog posts dismissing them as "illegitimate" are already written.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Whether a governors actions are legal or constitutional is another question entirely.
-Laelth
Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)But the health department has bery broad power to issue orders to protect public health. That is what happened in this case, the order was by Dr. Acton, after the lawsuit (with two elderly voters as plaintiffs) failed.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)order and stopped the primary.
Acton is clearly running the show. Go back and watch the press conferences starting last Monday. It is very clear that he is deferring to her medical judgment. Why else do you think a Republican Governor was ordering schools closed when there were very few infections in the state, at a time when Hannity and clan were still claiming it was a big nothing-burger?
I normally can't stand DeWine, but I have been extremely impressed with his response to COVID 19 - primarily since he is doing what virtually all other Republicans have not been doing - listening to the health experts, and leaving politics out of it.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)You ought to.
With one exception, every democrat I've spoken with in Ohio who has been paying attention to what Dewine has been doing has been very impressed with his handling of COVID 19 (despite disagreeing with pretty much every other decision he has made).
Maeve
(42,305 posts)I can see both sides of this argument--and as a poll worker, I was jerked around as much as most. I went to bed thinking I was getting up to go work and got a text saying I wasn't before I fell asleep. Then I was up four hours later to find out for sure what I was doing today half an hour before I would have been setting things up.
We haven't (as a society) planned for crisis properly--now is the time to think ahead.
Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)The order to close restaurants and bars was a Saturday or Sunday decision (I've lost track). In terms of contacts, voting is equivalent to those. The CDC guidance on elderly people kept changing.
I think it was the right thing to do - but it has been the most chaotic response (in Ohio) to the COVID 19 matter.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,210 posts)Postponed. Not canceled.
Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)Amy Acton, head of the Ohio Department of Public Health issued the order.
Public health departments have broad powers in a state emergency to take steps to protect the public health - so, there are stinking laws, and the directive was issued pursuant to those laws. There are still questions as to how this will play out, since the initial attempt was not an order to postpone the elections (a suit was filed by two elderly plaintiffs who did not want to choose between voting and (for them) exposure to life-threatening illness.
Dr. Acton has issued numerous orders within the past few days (closing restaurants & bars, banning large groups, etc). This order is consistent with her prior orders. The process was clunky, but her actions (in the early days) have been against the Republican mantra, so I am confident this was driven by health concerns, not politics.
https://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_boe/en-US/2020/Directive2020_06.pdf
Atticus
(15,124 posts)dware
(12,462 posts)and the suit against postponement was brought by, a repub. How's that for irony.
Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)He has been acting like someone concerned about the health of all of his constituents.
Sometimes a crisis brings out the best in people. Sometimes not (Trump).
he's not concerned with the R party, he's scared for his citizens and I give him all the credit that is due.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Trump and Pence would cease being president and vice president on 1/20/2021.
The Speaker of the House would become president.
getagrip_already
(14,935 posts)Each state would send one rep only. The gop controls a majority of state legislatures, so could pick the next pres.
Of course, pelosi will likely still control the house, so she could postpone the vote... unless election fuckery somehow tips control of the house.
lark
(23,183 posts)"They" said drumpf would not declare a National Emergency - but he did so he has the power to do this now. Besides SCOTUS is the only thing that could stop him, only 5 of them are all in on destroying the country for the benefit of the oligarchs and will do nothing to thwart his actions. If things get worse and people get really pissed at him, the election will not happen and we will be in a whole new world.
JCMach1
(27,585 posts)Like vote by mail...
=Voter suppression, low turnout
ebbie15644
(1,216 posts)right about governors. I could see a bunch of republican governors cancelling thus preventing a democratic Senate
Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)This was a decision by the health department - health departments do have broad powers in public health emergencies.
TwilightZone
(25,512 posts)It's not complicated. The Executive Branch of the Federal government simply does not have the authority. It's been well-established that only Congress can change the date and states control the election process and are given wide latitude.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32471.pdf
As for DeWine, this was a decision ultimately made by the state health department. His initial cancellation was nullified by a court, the health department stepped in, and the Ohio SC allowed the cancellation on those grounds.
It's also a primary, not a general election.
Whiskeytide
(4,463 posts)... he can legally do it with the potential that he will try to do it. He cant legally do it. But if anyone thinks for a minute that he - and his people - are not looking at it, then they havent been paying attention the last three years.
Even attempting to do it would cause chaos, and he rules by chaos. And I understand that his term expires in January. Ok. Could he issue some sort of emergency proclamation to extend his term? Not legally. But he could try.
People KEEP underestimating his craven, narcissistic, I dont give a shit what the law says approach to his very existence.
A year ago, I would have said that the republicans in Congress, the DOJ, and SCOTUS would never stand for such a thing. But we have seen that there is not really anything they wont excuse.
Atticus, I fear that this could be one of those times where it will suck for all of us when you post a well deserved I told you so this Fall.
TwilightZone
(25,512 posts)And it was determined that he didn't have the authority. Same applies to Trump.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32471.pdf
Whiskeytide
(4,463 posts)... he may try.
He also cant condition congressionally authorized foreign aid to an ally on receiving a personal favor from that government. Its not legal, right? Congress would not permit that. The DOJ would step in. The Courts would stop it.
TwilightZone
(25,512 posts)It's a waste of time and effort worrying about something that has no chance of success.
Whiskeytide
(4,463 posts)... to actually cancel the election. Just disrupt it. What if he issues a statement on Nov 2 cancelling the election because the infection risk is too great? What happens? How many people dont vote because of that? Crowded, long wait line precincts are usually democratic leaning, right? How many precincts in how many states close because the president said so? Do any states cancel? Lets say a few do. Are the results of 46 states on Nov 3 valid? How do you add up electoral college votes? Is there a federally mandated election the following week in those 4 other states? Who enforces that? Or do we have to do a complete do over? Wouldnt the loser have arguments that the vote is incomplete? Who answers these questions, and how fast can they be answered?
And how much easier would it be to stuff ballot boxes or hack machines undetected in the midst of all this chaos?
The chaos is the point. Tie it up in the courts and overwhelm the media and make it a shitshow.
Im just saying that to simply pronounce that this orange asshole cant do something because its unconstitutional or not allowed, or because its never been done before ... ignores what he - and his cronies - have been doing for 3 years.
radius777
(3,635 posts)as long as he thinks it can work and he can get away with.
By now, one would think there'd be mass uprisings in the street, and that Trump should've been impeached/removed for numerous violations, yet he remains.
Now he has this pandemic to 'work with'. Fascists thrive on emergencies and a breakdown in what is normal only to replace it with their own 'normal'... and offer themselves as the 'only one you can trust'.
Biden, who has the gravitas as VP and alot of moxy himself - can win - but he/we need to be aware that Trump will use fear, manipulation etc - anything to keep himself and his corrupt grifing family in office.
Ms. Toad
(34,124 posts)The Supreme Court agreed with the postponement, in a decision issued overnight.
Four justices issued the unanimous decision(two democrats, two republicans). The remaining did not participate (one, because he is DeWine's son. No word on why the other two republicans did not participate).
bluedigger
(17,088 posts)Conventions are another matter. Nothing in the Constitution about those, and the GOP clearly doesn't need one.