Let me just say something about Covid-19 and the economy.........

[Takket]

Covid did not end a "great economy". All it did was instantly pop a balloon instead of letting it leak out slowly over time.

The economy has been viewed as "great" largely because of the DOW average which was a reflection of little more than the GOP tax scam driving up corporate profits and 1%er wealth by placing the money redistributed to the top on the national debt instead.

But Covid has laid bare everything Democrats have been warning us about......... despite the "great economy", the American worker in an instant find him/herself unable to pay bills. How could you? When nearly half the country lives paycheck to paycheck and has no retirement savings (a figure that is only going to go up with the stock market collapse). And as we've seen, it isn't just the worker with no savings to fall back on. The greed filled companies that did EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID THEY WOULD DO, use the tax scam to buy back their own stock and enrich themselves, are now begging for bailouts despite record nearly tax-free profits since Obama saved us from the great recession.

Covid didn't change everything for the economy. It accelerated the inevitable.

At the same time... paying for this disaster doesn't have to sit on the national debt either. Go to the 1% and get back all the money the GOP handed out to them. Get it out of off shore accounts and yachts and put it back into the economy. Tax the shit out of the 1% and save the 99%.

[Alex4Martinez]

1. K&R (nt)

[theaocp]

2. Until we rid ourselves of the donor class

this will be our norm.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. Agreed & Recommended

I've been saying for over a week that this was an accelerated correction. Bigger than likely would have been, but profitability wasn't up by 12% across the board for all publicly traded firms.
Train was going to derail anyway. The crisis just made it faster & oversized.

[DownriverDem]

60. Now what?

We will be & are so screwed waiting for the correction. I'm not against the correction, but all I see is a lot of hurt.

[ProfessorGAC]

64. No Argument

And, I don't think anybody knows the answer to "Now what?"
Going to be bumpy.

[Alliepoo]

4. Yep, yep and yep!!!

[Wounded Bear]

5. True. CV was just a triggering event...

the underlying fundamentals were looking like a bubble for a long time.

[DinahMoeHum]

6. Hopefully, these are last rites for "supply-side economics"

There will be a big-ass economic shift the likes of which have not been seen since the 1932 elections.

Just my 2 cents.




#newrostrong

[volstork]

13. There will be a big-ass economic shift the likes of which have not been seen since the 1932 election

Please say more about this.

[calimary]

63. I sure hope so. A CON game of the first order.

But stay alert! “Supply-side economics,” “trickle-down economics,” it’ll come back and rear its ugly head again as soon as its proponents think the rest of us have forgotten, or figured the enemy was defeated so it’s safe to go back to sleep, or stopped giving a damn. They’ll just call it something different, come up with a new name for it that tries to disguise or mislead away from what it still is. And they’ll find a new salesman (or woman). They always do. They found reagan. And bush/cheney. And now the donald.

He’s just the latest figurehead. And he won’t be the last. Because that side of the aisle, where this baloney is cooked up, will never admit they were wrong. They’ll go down with the ship still loudly proclaiming what a great idea it is to help those who don’t need any help, at the expense of many who do.

[unblock]

7. i agree that we had a bubble before this and a correction/contraction was inevitable; however,

the *way* in which the economy is contracting now (not merely the speed and severity of it) is *very* different from how things might have unfolded absent covid-19.

the immediate business casualties here are the inherently local businesses that can't survive with the "social distancing" requirements. restaurants and bars, nail salons, barber shops, sports and local entertainment, etc.

these are often *not* big casualties in ordinary contractions. high-end restaurants, sure, people cut back on eating fancy. however, many cheaper restaurants normally do fine as the high-end diners scale back to eat out cheaper, which makes up for the people who cut out restaurants altogether. entertainment also does fine normally as people seek escape from hard times.

these are very unusual business casualties.


another unusual factor is the speed with which businesses will adjust. normally, contractions can be painfully drawn-out as time is needed for the bloated, unprofitable businesses to fail out and get the people and resources involved in those unproductive businesses shift to something more productive.

this time, instead, many businesses are immediately closing. unprofitable businesses will quickly just close down, recognize that they can't survive being closed for a few months, and just shut down, whether via bankruptcy or selling everything off.

this means a much quicker and robust recovery as conditions permit an eventual return to normalcy.


that said, there's still a huge difference between 3-6 months like this vs. 12-18 months like this....

[bronxiteforever]

15. +1

[erronis]

33. Agree. But the recovery will leave small businesses behind. Especially if the (r)s prioritize big

business.

Just another way to make mega-millions off of a calamity.

The Greedy Old Party.

[unblock]

38. I agree. There will be no pent-up demand for eating out

[iluvtennis]

8. The "economy" for the duration of trump admin has been all about the markets. Never reflected the

true economy of good paying jobs and pay inequality.

[crickets]

48. +1

[appalachiablue]

53. +2 The 'market' isn't the real economy, despite 40 yrs. propaganda.

[NonPC]

9. What About SELLING Stock???

I think the companies who are begging for handouts, need to first sell a few million shares of their stock to raise cash.

Why is this not being discussed?

Okay, the stock price is depressed. So what? It's either dilute the book value of the existing shares, or file bankruptcy and loose probably 100% of the stock value.

Someone please tell me what I'm missing.

[Canoe52]

17. Now a bear market, it's sell baby sell time.

[Takket]

18. why do that when McConnel will bail you out with middle class taxpayer money?

[Traildogbob]

10. Not one tax dime

To CEO's of Corps with offshore accounts, that pay no taxes, that bought their stocks from last bailout. But, that is exacly the opposite of McConnell and GOP senate. Give small business loans, give mega untaxed Corps free cash. Our cash, we that pay taxes. Trickle down a one time $1,200 payment to a few middle class, that actually pay the majority of taxes to run the Gubment. Sound like typical GOP!

[Bengus81]

29. Bail Boeing out for KILLING people...

And on and on and on.......

[Chakaconcarne]

11. Wasn't there something in the tax cut that said if the economy were to dive it would be reversed?

[wishstar]

46. There is an element of the tax cut for wealthiest that will eventually expire in a few years

[safeinOhio]

12. Make all of those companies sell

every share of stock they bought back in the last 2 years before they get one penny of our tax dollars.

[lark]

14. This is happening for the exact opposite reason.

the ultra rich (drumpf and his worldwide band of rw ideologues) sought to hide and profit from this and fucked us royally. Drumpf refusing the WHO testing kits and insisting we use a company in which he's a part owner (16 ee, failing co owned by Jared's brother) which was not prepared and never could handle any volume. drumpf didn't want extensive testing, because he couldn't profit off of it. He wanted a vaccine and tried to buy one from Germany for mega personal profits, but luckily that got torpedoed. They knew this would disrupt us and planned to sell high then buy low, cashing out with cheap stocks. He wants to give away billions of dollars to his donors (and his own) businesses, nothing to the poor and a pittance to the workers. Then they will proclaim a FINANCIAL EMERGENCY - and cut Social Security and Medicare to the bone. They will have stolen billions from the working class, transferred it to themselves and changed our country and world for the worse. We will be much more poor, die much more quickly with medical care only for the rich because no one else can afford it, and watch - they will stop pubic education. They want us ignorant and poor - basically serfs who will work for nothing, get nothing from them, and die at a young age. We will also produce lots of children because they will end birth control and abortions - again except for the rich. They will have used this to get everything they've ever wanted and destroy our power and clout.

[not fooled]

24. Hard to argue with

and now they've stocked the courts with radical RWNJs who will back it all up.

The corruption and looting that are about to ensue with the bailouts will be staggering in their enormity.

I think they will also use this Disaster Capitalism opportunity to radically gut public education in one fell swoop. Transfer public school students to online outlets run by private corporations. Fire most of the teachers. Sell off the school properties.

[totodeinhere]

16. Even those who don't get sick will suffer greatly as the economy collapses like a stack of cards.

n/t

[ananda]

19. Well said!

Thanks

[smirkymonkey]

20. +1000

[Pluvious]

21. Not to mention the corporate stock buy-backs with near zero interest borrowing

This has been part of the driving force to elevated valuations.

[librechik]

22. Spot ON!

The veil of phony GOP Trickledown has been ripped off like a bandaid.

Ouch!

Now I imagine they will be FORCED to do the right thing! Any day now McConnell will take off his invisible ankle bracelet and act like an American instead of a Russian stooge.

Still waiting.

[jimlup]

23. It reminds me that reality doesn't match what the GOP scammers

expect. And when it bits - it bits hard!

[wiggs]

25. Great post, thanks. nt

[hellno45]

26. Capitalism isn't built for this, it can handle buyouts, mergers, even bankruptcy's but its crushed

under the weight of a single virus.

[Ponietz]

27. Hope our leaders agree with you

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. For the most part seniors will be more or less okay economically.

We are living on a fixed income, more or less, and have been mostly surviving. Some better than others.

The irony is that as a group more of us will probably die, which will actually be a benefit to Social Security in the medium run. But meanwhile, we'll be spending somewhat as usual.

Speaking for myself only, I will benefit a bit financially as I normally go out at least two or three times a week. That's money I'll no longer be putting into the economy. And since my income has been quite adequate for my needs, I'll be saving that surplus. I will spend it on new travel when all of this shakes out, so it won't be permanently saved.

I don't want this to sound as if I'm dismissing the real concerns and hardships of many seniors. Nor that I'm being cavalier about how many of us may die. Just realistic.

On a related note, I was out of town March1-17. On a cruise ship where we all felt far safer than we knew would would on land. As soon as I got home two neighbors knocked on my door to make sure I was okay and to let me know to ask for help if I needed it. That seems to be happening everywhere.

[LovingA2andMI]

30. All of THIS...

We have been saying this "Economy" was no more than a Ponzi Scheme. Now it's time to get our money back. Tax The Rich!

[saidsimplesimon]

52. smoke and mirrors' grifters

[Bluethroughu]

31. K&R

Says it all perfectly!

[flying_wahini]

32. good link to one of many on the subject

[link:https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-forces-nations-to-choose-between-economy-and-health-2020-3|

[Mr. Evil]

34. Just tuned in to Alex Witt a few minutes ago and

she had Anthony Scaramucci tallking about the market and what to expect in the coming weeks. Fuck the stupid fucking market! They discussed how much help the corporations may or should get. Really?!!! He said something to the affect about what a great job Mnuchin is doing, blah, blah, blah.

First off, the only people that should be on the news right now are doctors, nurses and experts in epidemiology. 'The Mooch?!' Give me a break! I got so mad if I had a brick handy I'd be without a TV right now! Secondly, they are scheming to find a way to enrich corporations that will help no one. Fuck them. Any corporation that is not a supplier of medical supplies or could be deemed unnecessary at this time should shut down. Find someone, anyone that knows logistics and initiate a plan to keep supply lines open. Video game outlets are NOT necessary! Let the government (the people that do not have their heads up their ass) give people cash to function. Do not give money to businesses that will most likely keep it for themselves and only give their employees a bare minimum to get by, maybe. Direct payments to citizens is the only way to keep it as honest as possible. And give it to the most needy first!

Rachel Maddow is 100% correct by stating that the media should stop having President NarciNazi on TV. He has no clue and does not care.

Sorry I've been away for awhile. Had other personal issues to deal with and didn't want to post anything here while my mind wasn't quite right (not that it ever was )

Thanx to DU! I love you all and wish everyone the best.

[erronis]

35. And who will claw back the US taxpayers's $s from the 1%?

If we're relying on the current US government to do anything reasonable or fair we're totally mistaken.

Even a newly minted fairly-elected US government (Democrats, natch) will have a hard time. Those yachts and off-shore accounts have been put behind all sorts of virtual and real walls.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

44. It will never happen because high-level assets are international.

High-level assets have no borders and globalization has seen to it. It's the ultimate hedge billionaires dream of.

If any nation tries to strip their wealthy of assets, they will immediately take them elsewhere and make them even more invisible - - something the average working stiff has no way to do. The best we have is a mattress.

If there ever was a time when humanity needed a huge red international "reset" button, it's now.

KY

[Ferrets are Cool]

36. Love the logic. Wont happen. nt

[Jspur]

37. I agree 100

percent with what you said. This economy was a giant bubble that was waiting to be popped and Covid just popped it.

[Owl]

39. How will manufacturing evolve / survive this?

[erlewyne]

40. That's a great post and I agree,

I applaud your points.

Alas, I just could not pass this up. I hate spending time
responding because I am so occupied on reading about
Ovid, that Roman a couple thousand years ago and you
write about COVID!

Ignore this because it is off subject but I have solved (for myself)
"Ovid's deregulation". A fun thing for me.

Excuse my silliness.

Oh, not about your post, that's a great one.

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. Economy is comprehensively buggered globally; this isn't just the US (nt)

[kentuck]

42. I think some people kept the bad news secret until they had dumped all their stocks?

The stock market kept falling and falling every day.

And some politicians had information that the public did not have. They dumped their stocks.

[Brainfodder]

43. Our money is a such a joke?

Entirely bent, it's beyond any intentions.

[WinstonSmith4740]

45. Yep.

[dlk]

47. The rose-colored glasses are being ripped away by the COVID-19 crisis

The reality will eventually overcome the spin.

[Bmoboy]

49. WSJ says "its not worth it"

The WSJ editorial saying maybe we should just keep on as normal to keep the economy going shows how the 1% feels about the rest of us.

The poor and the old are apparently useless to them.

Once the population is culled, the AI can take over all those jobs being down by telework, and the survivors can go to work as the vassals of the rich.

Just like the good old days.

[uponit7771]

50. K&R

[B Stieg]

51. 'Disaster Capitalism' at its finest!

Naomi Klein, The Shock Doctrine, 2007

[SayItLoud]

54. And this...

tRUMP says that the economy and companies will come "roaring back". The CEO of McDonald's, whom I believe has far deeper understanding of how his company will rebound then tRUMP or CRUDlow said "its going to be a long slow return for his company and the rest, not a sharp upward V..."

There will be spikes and drops; just like we are experiencing these days and the micro traders will make $ shorting and micro timing trades while the average *investor* will continue to be in the red and get eaten financially on a daily basis.

[nitpicker]

56. I think the McD CEO has a clue

After all, they are having in many areas to close their dining areas, so fewer staff.

Who can afford to eat at McD's if they have been laid off? They might not even be able to afford ramen.

((Of course there's always the cheeseparing "millionaire next door", but they almost certainly were never regular McD customers,))

[lefthandedskyhook]

55. You got it

Bernie is THE answer to this problem. Let's hope Joe can go with Liz

[xyoungblood]

57. Lets not forget

that the federal reserve has been giving its banks billions of dollars to buy stock on the stock market to inflate it, they expected to infuse 4 TRILLION by the end of 2020. Giving the illusion that Trump's economy was just grand.

[dchill]

58. Well, yes!

[Mike Niendorff]

59. THIS.

K&R.


MDN

[Under The Radar]

61. Look at the timeline, what popped the bubble was Saudi - Russian Oil dispute

The corona concern was a couple of days later

[summer_in_TX]

62. Businesses going under

My niece and her husband have a successful floral design business. So successful that they needed more space and acquired a 65,000 sq ft warehouse and outfitted it over the last several months. This week all the weddings they were booked to do started cancelling. In a couple of cases the flower arrangements were already made (and paid for). With my niece's help, two sets of couples auctioned off the arrangements for their weddings and donated the proceeds to others in need.

But it's heartbreaking to watch their dreams go under. My niece's mother has a wedding and catering business also now in trouble in an instant.

I know we all have friends and relatives facing disaster. Had to share my aching heart somewhere.