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raccoon

(31,110 posts)
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:05 AM Apr 2020

Why the "good Germans" didn't stop the Nazis

Hitler didn’t announce right after he got into power, “now we’re going to exterminate the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, feeble-minded, and anyone else we have no use for.” (I use the pronoun we because Hitler didn’t do the holocaust by himself.)

It happened gradually. By the time the average citizen knew or at least suspected that his Jewish neighbors and others that were considered undesirable were being sent to death camps, what could he or she possibly have done to stop it?

There were brave people who hid Jews, helped them to escape to safety, worked in the resistance doing what they could to hinder the Nazis. They could do these things.

But to change or throw out the entire horrible system was way beyond what the average citizen could do.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why the "good Germans" didn't stop the Nazis (Original Post) raccoon Apr 2020 OP
Trump boils frogs. PubliusEnigma Apr 2020 #1
Bullshit.. agingdem Apr 2020 #5
Maybe they were always waiting for the next election Bettie Apr 2020 #10
Things would be a lot worse if we truly had no power ck4829 Apr 2020 #15
Agingdem, your ignorance of that world is in every word. Hortensis Apr 2020 #17
my ignorance? agingdem Apr 2020 #18
Recommended. guillaumeb Apr 2020 #2
Exactly. Jamastiene Apr 2020 #3
There are times when I wonder if Hitler deliberately made "Mein Kampf" a turgid, dense, unreadable Aristus Apr 2020 #4
For the same reason "good Americans" didn't stop the confirmation of Roberts and Alito DFW Apr 2020 #6
Exactly! cayugafalls Apr 2020 #7
My reply -.... Upthevibe Apr 2020 #8
The problem with that is Leith Apr 2020 #16
germans loved hitler. they read his book telling what he would do...and did. msongs Apr 2020 #9
+1 Mosby Apr 2020 #12
Read "Hitler's Willing Executioners." nt tblue37 Apr 2020 #11
I understood that Gen.Patton, when he made it to Ilsa Apr 2020 #13
Don't be a Good German ck4829 Apr 2020 #14
If Hitler had a Retrumplican majority Senate maxrandb Apr 2020 #19

agingdem

(7,849 posts)
5. Bullshit..
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:28 AM
Apr 2020

those good Germans were what too dense to grasp the smell of burning flesh coming out of the concentration camp crematoriums? ...they were too dense to grasp the round ups? too dense to grasp the star of David patches?...too dense to grasp grabbing Jewish businesses and homes as their own?...nazi Germany wasn't a slow walk...

Trump's Plague is not a slow walk...don't kid yourself...

Bettie

(16,109 posts)
10. Maybe they were always waiting for the next election
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 03:05 PM
Apr 2020

or for checks and balances or for the courts to stop him?

We're seeing that right now. There is no real curb on his behavior from anyone.

Yes, the House can stop legislation, but they find ways around it. Heck, there isn't even oversight anymore.

ETA: And right now? There is literally nothing we can do. None of our systems or institutions are able (or willing) to stop any of the things he does and we hold no power over any of it beyond voting if we are allowed to.

ck4829

(35,076 posts)
15. Things would be a lot worse if we truly had no power
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 03:37 PM
Apr 2020

There's no Muslim database (To our knowledge anyway)

The Navy is getting fed up with Trump

There's a reason why he's using "acting" secretaries instead of those vetted by the Senate

Despite the administration's best efforts to marginalize transgender Americans, they are still coming out and proud to be who they are

---

We've got to be irritating

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
17. Agingdem, your ignorance of that world is in every word.
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 04:00 PM
Apr 2020

Why not read about it belatedly? There are some really good first-hand accounts. Among other things, most elections were at least in part to mostly wholly stolen by the National Socialists, whatever was needed, and later effectively canceled. As his RW, and far-left, mobs grew, it became dangerous to oppose them in a way that doesn't happen here. Germans didn't actually elect him chancellor for life, you know, or whatever the title was. Power was taken, and he assassinated his socialist co-leader who was instrumental in getting that power once he no longer needed him.

Btw, regarding the culture, Germans had always lived under authoritarian government, NEVER known anything else, and under iron-fisted Chancellor Bismark late 19th century Germany was unified and became an advanced nation of relatively general wellbeing its people later looked back on longing. That was during and after WW1, of course. Germany had less than 15 years of imposed democracy after that war, imposed on great poverty and suffering, that we now know was doomed to fail.

When charismatic Hitler came along, he promised everyone a return to strong government under a strong leader that would restore wellbeing. His main platform was protecting traditional values from the extreme secularism that many believed threatened to destroy their culture, national security (Stalin's threatening tanks just a week away across the plains of eastern Europe), and protection of traditional religion. Yes, scapegoating of Jews and others was part of the message for those it resonated with, but nothing like what he gave them once he had power.

We should all wonder what our choices would be under very different circumstances. I was born liberal and will die liberal, but in the middle of poverty would I initially have known enough to be afraid of him? I can completely imagine moderate conservatives who've always been good turning to what early Hitler promised with hope. It wasn't the kind of period and situation in which liberalism COULD prevail over fear and need.

And after a while it was too late for even heroes to prevail. Liberals, religious figures, everyone who opposed them were arrested or ran for their lives. Btw, Jews were maybe 1% of the population, and had lives pretty well in the Bismark era. Most Germans had never known any personally and had no particular enmity toward them. As evidenced by my husband's family; he was born in 1940 to parents who often traveled to Europe and Germany to visit comfortably off family, but seemingly none of them realized or believed the danger before it was too late to escape. Not one of their extended families survived.

agingdem

(7,849 posts)
18. my ignorance?
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 06:58 PM
Apr 2020

Last edited Wed Apr 8, 2020, 08:18 PM - Edit history (1)

My parents were Holocaust survivors...it wasn't slow...the hate was always there...the question was how far would the good neighbors go with that hate ...I have my grandparent's letter to a relative living in New York...one word in yiddish: "Help"...and that was two years before they were dragged out of their home and put on a train to Auschweitz so please don't insult me by calling me ignorant..

As to Trump and his sychophantic minions and the "good neighbors" that support him...not slow... always there...I was a little girl but I remember Joe McCarthy, Father Coughlin..I remember white's only water fountains..I remember no negroes no jews no dogs notices in hotel lobbies and restaurants...the Republican Party then...the Republican Party now... not slow not over time...always

I have no idea how old you are but gleaning "how we got from there to here" internet bullshit, listening to "great minds" justify the long slide into Trump is a waste of time...my parents lived it, I lived it..I'm still living it...I may never see my children and grandchildren again because of the so called "didn't see it coming" crap...the denial, the hate...it was there for everyone to see and touch...ignorant? I don't think so...bite me!!

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. Recommended.
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:08 AM
Apr 2020

In addition, people will rationalize their own non-response with a variety of reasons.

Among them:

What can I do?

I am busy with my work/school/life.

And a variety of other excuses. Similar to the non-voters who never vote, but of course, for principled reasons.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
3. Exactly.
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:15 AM
Apr 2020

All citizens can do is listen to the canaries in the coal mines, the minorities. The minorities will eventually say something when they notice they are being targeted. Then, resistance is key. That is really all the average citizen can do. Join the resistance and try to help out.

American government is too powerful. It is way too powerful. That some of these things can be happening, up to and including seizing PPE equipment from various hospitals and calling federal stockpiles of medical equipment "ours" as in only belonging to the Trump family, friends, and admin, you know something is majorly wrong.

Aristus

(66,367 posts)
4. There are times when I wonder if Hitler deliberately made "Mein Kampf" a turgid, dense, unreadable
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:21 AM
Apr 2020

piece of garbage just to keep people from reading it. It was a best-seller, but like that other all-time best seller, the Bible, hardly anyone actually read it.

Hitler spelled out very clearly what he wanted to do once he had hold of the reins of power in Germany. But hardly anyone read the book, and those who did supported what he was up to.

DFW

(54,378 posts)
6. For the same reason "good Americans" didn't stop the confirmation of Roberts and Alito
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:28 AM
Apr 2020

Installing Roberts and Alito onto the Supreme Court paved the way for Citizens United.

Citizens United paved the way for a Republican takeover of Congress.

With Mitch McTurtle as Senate majority leader, there was no way for Obama to get fair minded judges confirmed.

Without fair-minded judges, there was no way to uphold the Voting Rights Act.

Without the Voting Rights Act, there was no way to avoid a steady erosion of voting rights.

At each stage along the way, Democrats (or, "good Americans," if you prefer) said, surely they wouldn't go THAT far.

At each stage along the way, they DID go that far, and then went a step farther.

THAT's why.

cayugafalls

(5,640 posts)
7. Exactly!
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 11:29 AM
Apr 2020

What is an average American supposed to do against this government?

Protest? Yell? Scream for justice? Gather in groups large enough to be corralled and gang arrested? When it comes down to it, the average citizen is impotent once the government has crossed a certain line.

Of course we can still vote in November, but I am having less and less faith in voting as the machine gets more and more rigged. This latest push to vilify mail in voting is designed to keep control of the voting machines that can easily be manipulated.

We can only hope for a sea change in November. We need massive turnout.

Vote, no matter what, your life depends on it.

Upthevibe

(8,051 posts)
8. My reply -....
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 12:52 PM
Apr 2020

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead....

Leith

(7,809 posts)
16. The problem with that is
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 03:54 PM
Apr 2020

sometimes that small group of thoughtful, committed citizens are the Bolsheviks.

msongs

(67,405 posts)
9. germans loved hitler. they read his book telling what he would do...and did.
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 03:00 PM
Apr 2020

no doubt there were some germans who tried to undermine hitler but they are few and far between. Hitler was a reflection of the german character and culture not some sort of one off who appeared out of nowhere

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
13. I understood that Gen.Patton, when he made it to
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 03:30 PM
Apr 2020

Buchenwald, I think, had his soldiers round up all the german adults in Weimar and the areested german soldiers and he marched them through the camp to see the open grave with bodies of starved concentration camp slaves and prisoners. He wanted to make certain they all saw the inhumanity that had been done in their name.

maxrandb

(15,330 posts)
19. If Hitler had a Retrumplican majority Senate
Wed Apr 8, 2020, 07:18 PM
Apr 2020

They wouldn't have removed him either, although some would have expressed "deep concern".

In fact, I believe it was the German political parties that kept him in power

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