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so we don't need 30K ventilators ASAP after all? (Original Post) msongs Apr 2020 OP
Moving from state to state, elleng Apr 2020 #1
the people that could have used them mercuryblues Apr 2020 #2
+1 dalton99a Apr 2020 #5
This!👆 SheltieLover Apr 2020 #6
I keep hoping that I'm going to wake up from this nightmare. Initech Apr 2020 #27
85 cooler trucks sent in excess to what NY already had. sheshe2 Apr 2020 #13
That's not true DrToast Apr 2020 #24
This is the *problem* with responding well to a crisis intrepidity Apr 2020 #3
So much this Claustrum Apr 2020 #4
Exactly rufus dog Apr 2020 #10
TECHNICALLY SamBob Apr 2020 #22
I know I heard Gov.Cuomo say the docs had be putting 2 &3 people on one vent. to make sure napi21 Apr 2020 #7
That didn't happen FBaggins Apr 2020 #11
Don't worry - if we pretend it is gone it will come back. Ms. Toad Apr 2020 #8
THANK YOU !!! I'm think I'm goin nuts logically here. A flat curve doesn't mean a defeated virus uponit7771 Apr 2020 #25
Once it was realized that they weren't a magic cure madville Apr 2020 #9
Bet that 25% favors them though. brush Apr 2020 #19
Flattening the curve WORKS! . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2020 #12
Oh, shut up. demmiblue Apr 2020 #14
The emergency has been lessened because of the success of the social-distancing. pnwmom Apr 2020 #15
Turns out that ventilators don't greatly improve the survival chances NickB79 Apr 2020 #16
You're really going for it! greenjar_01 Apr 2020 #17
It's still a valid point. Igel Apr 2020 #21
The team up! greenjar_01 Apr 2020 #23
thanks for your comments DU amigos nt msongs Apr 2020 #18
When did Cuomo say that, how long has it been since, KPN Apr 2020 #20
It's because social distancing WORKS. roamer65 Apr 2020 #26

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
6. This!👆
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 09:58 PM
Apr 2020

Murdered by the President of the United States of America.

Tens of thousands.

Let that sink in.

I keep shaking my head, hoping this was all a dreamtime nightmare.

Initech

(100,068 posts)
27. I keep hoping that I'm going to wake up from this nightmare.
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 10:07 AM
Apr 2020

But that doesn't seem to be the case.

sheshe2

(83,754 posts)
13. 85 cooler trucks sent in excess to what NY already had.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:17 PM
Apr 2020

And in a park stacked five feet high and six feet under. All the unclaimed bodies.

DrToast

(6,414 posts)
24. That's not true
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 09:38 AM
Apr 2020

They didn’t run out of ventilators in NY. That’s a good thing. No need to explain Cuomo’s comments away. He was, correctly, planing for the worst case scenario.

intrepidity

(7,295 posts)
3. This is the *problem* with responding well to a crisis
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 09:51 PM
Apr 2020

You must prepare for the worst, but if mitigation efforts work, then you're accused of crying wolf.

Claustrum

(4,845 posts)
4. So much this
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 09:55 PM
Apr 2020

You prepare for worst case scenario. If you prepare for best case scenario, you can easily be overwhelmed. Otherwise, if you over-prepare, your capacity is higher and even if the situation is a little worst than best case scenario, you still have the capacity to handle it.

It's also impossible to guess how much you need because it all depends on how people react and how bad the virus actually transmit (which no one can accurately calculate).

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
10. Exactly
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:08 PM
Apr 2020

And Cuomo clearly stated, we will have a spike and then send them on to the next State. It is called planning, worst case scenario. He never said they are OURS like the Son In Law of ShitStain.

Same logic would be if I said, WHY THE FUCK DO I NEED A FIRE STATION IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, WASTE OF MONEY! NO HOUSE ON MY STREET HAS CAUGHT FIRE, SURE THE LADY ACROSS THE STREET HAS SOME MEDICAL ISSUES AND HER FAMILY CALLS THEM ABOUT THREE TIMES A YEAR. BUT THAT IS HER PROBLEM. (CAPS to emphasize the ignorance of the argument of not planning for disasters.

SamBob

(61 posts)
22. TECHNICALLY
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 01:18 AM
Apr 2020

You for got to add the word 'technically' a bunch of times.
I have noticed every trump supporter does that to me.
"TECHNICALLY WHY DO I NEED A FIRE STATION WHEN TECHNICALLY IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY!! SO TECHNICALLY NO HOUSE ON MY STREET HAS TECHNICALLY CAUGHT FIRE!"

and so on...

Oh man... You guys are the best though after a long day of dealing with Trumpsters.

napi21

(45,806 posts)
7. I know I heard Gov.Cuomo say the docs had be putting 2 &3 people on one vent. to make sure
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:00 PM
Apr 2020

nobody was denied. If he'd gotten the vents he asked for they wouldn't have had to do that. and it's NOT RECOMMENDED except for emergencies.

FBaggins

(26,735 posts)
11. That didn't happen
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:09 PM
Apr 2020

It was just speculation on how to handle things if they ran out.

They made clear that nobody in the state who needed a ventilator failed to get one. They tested it on a few patients a couple weeks before the peak was projected, but had ventilators standing by if trouble developed

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
8. Don't worry - if we pretend it is gone it will come back.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:02 PM
Apr 2020

The whole point of the extreme distancing measurew was to make sure we didn't have more than 30,000 people who needed ventilators and not have enough. The pain we're going through now has worked - at least temporarily. However, if we go back to "normal," we'll be back to worse than we were before we started - since there are so many more people infected now than when the shelter-in-place orders were signed.

madville

(7,410 posts)
9. Once it was realized that they weren't a magic cure
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:04 PM
Apr 2020

and the survival rate of patients that were at the point of needing a ventilator was around 25% or less, they quickly lost favor as a talking point.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
15. The emergency has been lessened because of the success of the social-distancing.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:24 PM
Apr 2020

The problem is what happens when we relax on that.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
21. It's still a valid point.
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:45 AM
Apr 2020

All the governors assumed that the uncertainty would resolve in all states to have the worst outcome, and wanted at least enough to handle that. It's the toilet-paper effect. Everybody wanted to buy at least 6 megapacks per household member when, really, just a few rolls per person would do. But you can't tell them that, and if you tell people in that frame of mind that they're not acting rationally they think you hate them. (They're wrong, but that's how it goes. You can't argue with fear.)

NY would need 30-40k ventilators under a worst-case scenario. California, many thousands. At that point you need maybe 400k ventilators sitting around--with the likelihood that you'd need just a small fraction.

Smart money is to plan for some states having horrible situations, some having not so horrible. Figure out what's likely to be needed assuming some worst case scenarios, add some as a margin, and go for that. Projections 3-4 days out are likely to be much more accurate--something careens out of control, odds are you get things from almost anywhere to anywhere in 3-4 days. There was a lot of distrust thrown in with the fear. Not only does NY need 30-40k ventilators more, they need them asap because otherwise who knows if they'd ever arrive.

All those hundreds of thousands we needed? Turns out things actually went better than expected, and some models will throw back the assumptions made in the modelers' faces for reevaluation. But odds are we'd have had enough without it going all that well in more than a few cases. NYC is *not* a best-case scenario. Pretty bad, actually, compared to most other places. But every place has extra, so far. Michigan might be an exception, but you never know--a lot of NYS' problem was not wanting to move things in-state. Better to draw down national reserves before utilizing what they had.

It's all best forgotten because it's embarrassing at this point. Cuomo was afraid, he made a lot of other people afraid, that wasn't a good thing--that, and starting the process lockdown at least a week late, probably two weeks late. Some people need to have absolutes--we're absolutely perfect and good (with just enough flaws to be endearing) while the other side is absolute hate and bad. Russian proverb: The devil's not as black as they paint him. (Look at Russian icons, the devil's usually very dark. Oddly, a lot of the problem is a dark patina, like on old Renaissance masters.)

KPN

(15,645 posts)
20. When did Cuomo say that, how long has it been since,
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:18 AM
Apr 2020

how many positive ID’d people died since then, what has happened to numbers of new positive ID’s since then, how has social distancing affected those numbers?

Good question. You can be sure tRump is ready to muse over that specific question prolifically in the next few days. Good anticipation. Be prepared Governor Cuomo (we know you are).

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
26. It's because social distancing WORKS.
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 10:00 AM
Apr 2020

Good move by Gov Cuomo to require face covering in public as well.

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