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brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 07:21 AM Apr 2020

Sanders Could Lose A Third Of His Delegates, Making For A Messy Convention

538

Sanders stands to lose a significant number of delegates headed into the convention. According to the DNC’s 2020 delegate selection rules, any candidate who is no longer running loses the statewide delegates2 they have won and those delegates are then reallocated to candidates still in the race. (That has not necessarily been how the DNC has interpreted this rule previously, but it is how the DNC has signaled that it will use it in 2020.) Second, if Sanders fails to clear the 25 percent delegate threshold required to secure representatives on convention committees, it’ll be harder to integrate his policies into the official DNC platform.
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Sanders Could Lose A Third Of His Delegates, Making For A Messy Convention (Original Post) brooklynite Apr 2020 OP
Oh boy here it comes Fullduplexxx Apr 2020 #1
"That has not necessarily been how the DNC has interpreted this rule previously" Tom Rinaldo Apr 2020 #2
The convention will not be messy SoonerPride Apr 2020 #3
+1 ProfessorGAC Apr 2020 #4
Where's the fun in that? gratuitous Apr 2020 #6
Who cares? Renew Deal Apr 2020 #5
It doesn't have to be that way. DFW Apr 2020 #7
That Would Be the Ideal Course, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #9
"seeming" conversion to reason DFW Apr 2020 #16
The Likelihood Of A Virtual Convention, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #17
I was thiniking along the same lines DFW Apr 2020 #19
Mr. Dean, Sir, Was An Excellent Party Leader The Magistrate Apr 2020 #20
Let me fill you in on some background there DFW Apr 2020 #21
Pretty good summary of the situation. panader0 Apr 2020 #10
isn't Sanders currently serving in the Senate ? JI7 Apr 2020 #8
As a Buttigieg supporter I have a problem with this dsc Apr 2020 #11
I disagree...it will only lead to more division. The primary is over. Biden won and now let's move Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #12
"why change the rule now?" brooklynite Apr 2020 #13
I mean as opposed to in 2008 say dsc Apr 2020 #14
Clinton suspended her campaign after all the Primaries were held. Sanders dropped out in April. brooklynite Apr 2020 #15
Sanders and Biden already agreed on how the delegates would be handled. Hortensis Apr 2020 #18

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
2. "That has not necessarily been how the DNC has interpreted this rule previously"
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 08:22 AM
Apr 2020

I would urge the DNC to interpret this rule this time the same way they have done so previously whatever that might be. Don't change the interpretation either in a way that benefits the Sanders team or disadvantages it. Biden and the platform will do just fine under the same rule interpretation that has traditionally been used. It simply is not worth giving any ammunition to those who might become disgruntled over an alleged "unfair" process. Why poke to see if hornets are in that nest when we can move smoothly right past it to unity and victory?

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
3. The convention will not be messy
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 08:48 AM
Apr 2020

There is one candidate and one objective

Biden must defeat Agolf Twitler.

That is it.


Nothing else matters.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
7. It doesn't have to be that way.
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 09:05 AM
Apr 2020

Biden has already shown that he won't be sticking any "nobody can stop us now" fingers in the face of the Sanders campaign.

Two big "IFs:" IF Sanders is smart about this, and IF he has his delegates on a tight enough leash that they follow his marching orders, and not Nina Turner's, THEN, the following scenario is possible:

1.) Sanders comes to Biden, and says, "look, I will not make waves at the convention, seeing what's at stake here, but I need your ears after the inauguration. I know I won't get anywhere near what I want, but you will owe me nonetheless. Do we have an understanding?"

2.) Biden answers, "I hear you, but please keep in mind that Trump just spent the entire earnings of the next five generations of Americans, and I have to do something about it that does not involve pushing every U.S. citizen making over $10,000 a year into the 102% tax bracket. No way will be painless, but if you will work with me to find ways to lessen the pain for everyone, and still convince big employers to not move offshore, then as far as I'm concerned, we're on the same team. Do we still have an understanding?"

They shake hands, not QUITE convinced of the other, but with grounds to hope for the best.

That's a best-case scenario of an optimist, but I think Sanders has shown more common sense this time around. It's up to him to prove me wrong, something I know full well might easily yet happen.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
9. That Would Be the Ideal Course, Sir
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 09:29 AM
Apr 2020

But I do suspect Sanders' seeming conversion to reason results from his having been 'shewn the instruments' of what can readily be done to discipline him, in the Senate caucus and at the convention, in consequence of any misbehavior during the convention. This interpretation of the rule could be an attempt at securing Sanders' tractability while spring and summer stretch on till August.

Taken on its face, enforcement of the rule in this manner seems a sensible measure to me. The fact is delegates for Sanders are more likely to be obstreperous than the general run, and the fewer there are, especially on working committees, the better.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
16. "seeming" conversion to reason
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 03:23 PM
Apr 2020

All does pretty much depend on appearance being reality, doesn't it? The farther away we get, the messier it will be. We can be assured that outside influences (both foreign and domestic) will be underfoot to mess things up to the best of their ability. It won't be anything like Chicago, 1968, but that is their ideal scenario, because now, as then, the whole world WILL be watching. The whole world, excepting the usual suspects, will be on our side this time, but the usual suspects ARE locked and loaded. Keep in mind what is said about wounded animals being at their most dangerous. They ARE smart enough to not have downed a glass of their own Clorox.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
17. The Likelihood Of A Virtual Convention, Sir
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 03:31 PM
Apr 2020

May tend to minimize the possibility of disruption as well. The emotional contagion of an angry crowd is a good part of what a disgruntled faction counts on for rousing its adherents to action. That will be gone. I am not too aware of video-conferencing mechanics, but suspect it will be possible to break an individual's connection to the call, which would be easier and more effective than any physical attempt at control of people grouped together in a hall.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
19. I was thiniking along the same lines
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 05:47 PM
Apr 2020

I will claim a minor line to the DNC--not the top echelons (lost that when Howard left), but more nuts and bolts types. I will modestly take credit for getting them off their asses and inviting the Rev. William Barber to speak at the 2016 convention--and I DID ask the Rev. first, by the way, to make sure that 1.) he hadn't been invited already (he hadn't), and 2.) that he was even interested (he said he'd be honored). But a decision to go virtual or not is WAY above my level of "connectedness," which, except for the former Treasurer, is now casual at best. They hadrly, if ever, consult with Howard any more--to their profound detriment, in my opinion.

That said, such a decision would require a LOT of technical know-how and planning. I'm certain it could be done, but there is a lot of "never-done-this-before" to overcome. If there is anyone smart in their upper echelons (and rumor has it there are a few), they will start making the contingency plans, and working on the tech aspect sometime around mid-last-week.

If such a technical coup can be achieved, your scenario of being able to cut off trouble-makers before they get the chance to BE trouble-makers will not only come to pass. It will also have the bonus effect of making them know in advance of the capacity to cut them off/out if they attempt boorish disruption, and thus greatly reduce any incentive they might have had to do so to begin with.

A boon, indeed.

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
20. Mr. Dean, Sir, Was An Excellent Party Leader
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 05:58 PM
Apr 2020

I confess I did not expect much from him when he took the post, but he did very well, and I changed my view accordingly. To the point where I consider turning him out in favor of Kaine one of the worst mistakes made in the early stages of President Obama's administration. We might well have held the Congress in 2010 had he been kept on, and his '50 State' program pursued.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
21. Let me fill you in on some background there
Tue Apr 28, 2020, 12:59 AM
Apr 2020

Howard is a personal friend, so this is straight from him, not speculation. Tradition has it that the Party Chairman is one with great responsibilities, and considerable influence--WHEN that party does NOT hold the White House. When the Party DOES hold the White House, the President is the Party Chairman, and does not want or need a strong Party chair with whom to have potential conflicts. The Party chair thus traditionally steps down after having wrested the White House from the opposition, usually with a proud "my work is done here," which Howard dutifully did. It was his decision, not Obama's.

He would have stayed on had Obama asked him, but there was a nasty biting fly in that ointment in the name of Rahm Emmanuel. He despised Howard after their famous 2006 screaming match about whether to pursue the (as of then) untested 50 state strategy as opposed to the traditional stick-to-your-base strategy that Emmanuel as DCCC head advocated. As DNC chair, Howard held the upper hand. He not only stuck to his position, but turned out to have been wildly successful with it. I'm not sure which irked Rahm more, but when Obama named him WH chief of staff (Chicago blood being, apparently, thicker than Obama's usual common sense for once), Howard's fate as an eternal outsider to the Obama Administration was sealed. If there is ANYONE who should have been HHS Secretary, it was Howard. I asked him in early February, 2009, what he would do if Rahm managed to shut him out completely. He immediately answered that he would nominally join some firm for name recognition (for them) and some steady income (for him), and then spend the rest of his time "raising hell for causes I care about," which he has done ever since. In February of 2009, we met up in Geneva, Switzerland--close to home for me, but off his usual path. He was on his way back from Davos--not as a politico or economics guru, but as an environmental activist, which he was even in his Burlington days. It is another story altogether, but his environmental activism once brought him into a very sharp and bitter conflict with the mayor of Burlington--who, at the time, was one Bernard Sanders. They didn't speak for four years after that.

A few years later, he was involved in a march from Bangkok to the Burmese border to bring attention to the human trafficking going on with Burmese girls, via Thailand, being sold into human slavery. I never see ANYONE giving him credit for this kind of activity, and Howard was never one to toot his own horn. Because of his nominal employer, I occasionally see on this board mentions of "Howard Dean, the corporate sellout." I know that nothing could be further from the truth, but then, any post with the words "corporate" or "corporatist" is one I usually ignore anyway. With his record, Howard certainly doesn't need me to defend him.

Here in my adopted home town of Düsseldorf: Mayor Thomas Geisel (SPD), Howard, and me, on a VERY rare visit to Düsseldorf:
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
When we meet up these days, it's usually in New York or Washington.

JI7

(89,247 posts)
8. isn't Sanders currently serving in the Senate ?
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 09:07 AM
Apr 2020

why doesn't he try to actually get something done there ?

dsc

(52,160 posts)
11. As a Buttigieg supporter I have a problem with this
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 02:12 PM
Apr 2020

One, why change the rule now? If it worked before it should work now. Second, Pete will now go down has having barely any delegates despite having won the first state and nearly winning the second one. He might have like 5 delegates after all is said and done. He will go down in history as a version of Connelly instead of the trailblazer he was. He already voluntarily gave up at least one place and likely two in terms of finish, now he gives up nearly all of his delegates.

I also think Sanders should be permitted to continuing getting his delegates as well as Warren and Bloomberg.

Demsrule86

(68,556 posts)
12. I disagree...it will only lead to more division. The primary is over. Biden won and now let's move
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 02:17 PM
Apr 2020

on to the General.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
13. "why change the rule now?"
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 02:22 PM
Apr 2020

Because Sanders changed the rules when he dropped out. We only have ONE Presidential candidate at this point, and going through a symbolic exercise that 1) will have no impact on the Convention Platform or Party Rules and 2) will risk lives by increasing health risks makes no sense.

dsc

(52,160 posts)
14. I mean as opposed to in 2008 say
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 02:31 PM
Apr 2020

when Clinton suspended her campaign and was permitted to get her statewide delegates. He suspended his campaign he didn't withdraw.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
15. Clinton suspended her campaign after all the Primaries were held. Sanders dropped out in April.
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 02:42 PM
Apr 2020

Nobody compelled Sanders to drop out (except perhaps the voters). And again, the delegates have no actual value at the Convention other than symbolism.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
18. Sanders and Biden already agreed on how the delegates would be handled.
Mon Apr 27, 2020, 03:36 PM
Apr 2020

VP Biden is now not only our presumptive nominee but our presumptive new party leader.

(And don't you imagine over-burdened Nancy Pelosi is glad to shuffle this kind of stuff off!)

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