General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI just threatened the Toyota dealership where I bought my car.
Took the car in for oil change and inspection. They called me and said they had to repair something or it would not pass inspection. Total cost $430. I told the employee on the phone that should be covered by the warranty. He said he would call someone and check it out.
He called back and he said they told him it was not covered. I told him, I do not blame you, you just work there. I blame your boss. Tell your boss I have bought two new cars from you. There will be no more. You just lost a good customer.
When I picked up the car the employee told me we cannot cover your car through the warranty, however we will cover it as a courtesy.
That's how it is done people. You have to fight, you can't get through life fighting like sheep. There are too many sheep in this country.
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leftieNanner
(15,092 posts)The driver's side upholstery began to rip on my car. I only weigh 125 lbs. so there was no reason for it to fail. I had to get it redone at an auto upholstery shop. They had to disconnect the electronic seat "stuff" and the dealer had to reconnect it. They wanted to charge me $185 for this service. I complained to the sales rep that I should not be asked to pay for the fact that the upholstery failed. Ten minutes later - free of charge!
shockey80
(4,379 posts)Life is a fight. You have to fight at work, you have to fight for your rights, you have to fight for what is right, you have to fight about the little things, no matter the cost. If you don't you will lose at life.
In general, the American people have proven this to be true. The American people are losing.
TheBlackAdder
(28,193 posts).
Your car will go in for an oil change and when you leave, it's not running right. Huh, it was earlier.
What a lot of dealers do is. . .
YOUR CAR IS UNDER WARRANTY
1) Two cars with like parts are at the dealership. Your car and another person's.
2) A car out of warranty will have a broken part, they will swap the part with your car's good part.
3) They will charge the other guy for a NEW part--full price and labor. No dealership cost.
4) You will leave and come back for warranty repair of that part. The dealer is paid labor.
YOUR CAR OUT OF WARRANTY: You now become the other guy, and if you ask for the old part back, they might come up with the excuse that it was just picked up by the scrap collector. If the dealership pushes back on that request, that's when you should be a little suspicious. Dealerships should have absolutely no problem returning your old part to you. The ECMs, TCMs and other computer modules are desired by the dealerships because they like to sell them to rebuilders for a lot of money, since most older cars these parts are only available as aftermarket rebuilds. You'll be charged $600-1K or more for a rebuilt ECM, and the dealer buys them for half of that. Then, they take your old part and sell it for $100-200 to the rebuilder.
These parts swaps occur mostly at dealerships because dozens of like cars are being serviced each day. Heck, they could even keep a few junk parts and rotate them from one customer to the next, perpetuating this scam over and over, requiring your car to be at the shop for a day or two for the part to come in.
Asking for the old parts is the best way to jam them, but another is to mark each of your main parts so you know you're getting your old part back or if they swapped it with someone else's part.
.
Flaleftist
(3,473 posts)They gave me an estimate of $2,300 for work they said needed to be done, brakes, some kind of wiring and other parts. I don't remember everything exactly. I'm not great with auto mechanics. I brought the estimate to a relative who is a mechanic. The issues were not urgent, but it was work that would have needed to get done eventually. He did all of the work at his house for about $400 in parts by himself in half a day. So even if you don't know a mechanic, you could probably talk the price down quite a bit.
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)When I went to pick it up, the guy handed me a computer printout of over $3,000 of repairs that needed to be done, or I'd end up on a country road some night and unable to drive it. I told him he was trying to take advantage of a woman, paid for the oil change and left. I spent the next few years telling everyone I knew about him and warning them not to use his services. He finally closed.
I sold my pickup 7 years later. Not one single repair had been done from that list in all those years and I never ended up on a country road because of a malfunction.
Idiots! Don't they realize we can read them?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Trash-talked them for years and they have definitely declined.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)"It looks like you need to change the cabin and clean air intake filters - we can do that during the oil change for just 200 bucks..."
lol, they must not have seen the 2 empty boxes* in the back seat from the cabin and intake air filters I had just changed THAT MORNING before I brought it in for the oil change.
*Total cost 35 dollars and about 20 minutes of my time.
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)
Celerity
(43,352 posts)
procon
(15,805 posts)So this dealer was essentially trying to run a scam on you. He probably pockets a lot of free money that way. Did you report him?
If he's so flagrantly open about his little con game you know he's been ripping off customers for years. Maybe you're the first person that ever called him out. Turn him in and stop him from exploiting other people.
vapor2
(1,248 posts)We bought a 2019 Camry and every time you filled the tank, it gushed out. We filed a claim but took 5 trips to fix this issue. The claim agent actually opened a lemon law claim and they ended up buying the car back. I never got nasty and retained my cool but geez this was a brand new car. I was told early on that that's why we had a warranty. Will not consider another Toyota. EVERYTHING is a battle any more.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Have not had a single repair. Just the usual upkeep stuff.
Quemado
(1,262 posts)Toyota RAV4 Hybrid fuel tank shape allegedly makes it impossible to fill the tank with gas.
ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)...on my Chrysler convertible.
I have to slow the flow way down as tank is getting toward 85% full of an air bubble forms that blows the fill pump out. Has to be 3/4 cup of gas.
There's got to be some sort of venting flaw.
Squidly
(783 posts)I will never buy another toyota again. Have a 2019 Camry and I cant believe how the entire underbody is falling apart. Its ALL plastic, and living in a rural state its almost impossible not to drive on gravel roads. Of course, none of its covered by warranty since driving on gravel is a choice I make, but im afraid that im going to start leaving chunks of plastic underbody literally in the dust within the year.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I sometimes feel bad when I get stuff done to my car for free, but if they can't follow the laws it's not my fault.
Aristus
(66,349 posts)But when Jiffy Lube caused my car to blow a head gasket, I told them to fix it.
They refused.
I told the store manager to fix it.
He refused.
I told the district manager to fix it.
He refused.
I told the regional manager to fix it.
He refused.
I called the owner of the franchise and told him to fix it.
He refused.
I was shaking by the time I finished the call. I hate confrontations.
I took him to small claims court.
He said: "Gracious! Did WE do that? Let's settle out of court!"
I got a check the next day.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)I used to go there once n a while and they always trued to sell me extra. And my car was brand new
I go to a shop I like now. I never feel like I am being taken advantage of.
Staph
(6,251 posts)I used to get my regular oil changes there. One time I went in, they told me that my oil cap was missing. The hood on that car had not been opened since the last time that they had changed the oil, but they refused to take responsibility. I told the manager that they had lost a regular customer and never went back to any Jiffy Lube.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,820 posts)Freeway Ford here in Denver told me that my ford was out of warranty and billed me 450 for a 100 dollar repair. I looked it up on the internet and found the item they repaired was most certainly under warranty, sent a copy of the invoice to Ford, and received a check by return mail for the entire bill.
Reichenbach Volvo here in Denver did the exact same thing with my wife's Volvo, except the bill was 2400 dollars, and they said it wasn't covered by warranty. I went up on the internet and found that it was in fact covered by warranty. I sent a copy of the Invoice to Volvo North America, and by return mail received a check for the entire amount.
The dealers are charging the customer, and then also turning the repair into the manufacturer for reimbursement, for work "done under warranty".
The auto makers know this is going on, but refuse to do anything about it.............they are as culpable as the dealers as far as i am concerned.........
Everyone has to realize that almost everything in our lives is a scam........False Advertising went out in the Reagan administration, etc etc. That is why Corporate America loathes Elizabeth Warren.....She promised that the Consumer Protection Agency would start busting corporations right and left for their corrupt practices...............
58Sunliner
(4,386 posts)LuckyCharms
(17,425 posts)It was many years ago, so I can't remember all of the details, but I had them do an oil change for me.
Several hours after that, my red oil dash light came on while driving on the highway. I immediately pulled over. Long story short, most of my engine oil was dumped onto the road.
There was no apparent engine damage, but I remember writing a lot of letters and finally getting some token compensatory check in the mail from their corporate office.
It was something like...either the oil pan plug was not tightened all the way, or the oil filter was not tightened down all the way.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)You left that part out.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)I did not agree. They called it normal were and tear. It was not normal.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)You left that part out.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)because this gasket wore out, normal wear and tear, it's not covered. Get it?
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)
JCMach1
(27,558 posts)They sat on my car balance for 9 months after my car was totaled and payed off by my insurer.
Yeah, they are on THE LIST
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)They didn't have to.
I bought a 2017 Jeep Renegade, and it was a mechanical nightmare. Thermostat died. Can't just change the thermostat, you have to change the entire housing. Ends up being about $900 parts and labor. Not covered by the power train warranty. Thermostats are consumable, like brake pads.
No fucking way in hell it should go bad in 20,000 miles, but it can happen.
The warranty is a contract. It spells out what it covers and what it does not. Sometimes the outcome sucks for the consumer, but it is a contract.
At 53,000 miles the engine ate cylinder #4, loss of compression, oil blow-by, burnt piston. They replaced the entire engine, no charge. They had to.
It's a contract.
But yes, dealerships do sometimes cover things for irate customers that don't understand their rights per the contract.
Mariana
(14,856 posts)that never should have happened, even if the car was 20 years old, but it was fairly new and still under warranty. They tried to play the same game with me, but in the end they covered it "as a courtesy". The fix would have cost thousands if we'd had to pay for it. They changed their minds awfully quickly when I challenged them, so I know they were trying to scam me. Probably figured this silly woman couldn't possibly know anything about how cars are supposed to work, so we can fool her. It wasn't my home dealership, either, so they weren't trying to retain me as a customer, they just tried to rip me off and failed.
Goodheart
(5,324 posts)Was it covered by the warranty?
shockey80
(4,379 posts)Technically they could argue it was not covered. Normal wear and tear bullshit game. In reality, it should be covered. Maybe Toyota should change who they work with when it comes to warranties.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Goodheart
(5,324 posts)Seriously, you should be thanking the dealership.
sellitman
(11,606 posts)I complained and voila!
TlalocW
(15,382 posts)Tire Guy: Yeah, we're going to have to charge you a lot to fix your tire. Whoever patched it last time didn't do it right.
Me: You guys did it last time so if it wasn't done right you should do it for free.
Tire Guy: Our records show we patched the driver side front, not the passenger rear.
Me: What else do you have in your records concerning my car care?
Tire Guy: Uh, we did an oil change for you a month after that.
Me: Go on...
Tire Guy: What?
Me: What else did you do for me, which I get done everytime I get an oil change from you?
Tire Guy: ... (upset) A tire rotation...
Me: So the patch is free then.
Tire Guy: Fine.
TlalocW
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)There used to be a phone number in the cars owners manual.
I took my year old Toyota to a dealership for an oil change. Picked it up, drove about 20 miles and lost the transmission. They had neglected to replace the plug, and all the oil drained out. They told me it would cost 3000 to fix it.
I called Toyota USA number, explained the situation, and a couple days later got a call that it would be repaired free of charge. When I went to pick the car up, I traded it for a new model. Never drove that car again.
I would call them, to at least make them aware of your dissatisfaction.
TheFarseer
(9,322 posts)I would suspect someone was just too lazy to try to invoke the warranty, but probably not do anything about it.
videohead5
(2,172 posts)A few years ago I had problems with a Toshiba projection TV. They could not fix the problem. I finally sent a letter to them and a man from Toshiba called me on the phone sometime afterwards and told me they would replace it and he told me my letter got all the way to the CEO of the company.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)You’ve got to fight like you mean it, too. In other words, do what you say you’ll do if it comes to that.
TNNurse
(6,926 posts)we switched to a local place for oil changes and whatever. The cost of the oil change was absurd. We buy our synthetic oil and take it with us because they charge much more for it but the labor is reasonable.
The dealership did do airbag changes (the same exact thing twice on a recall) on my husband's Corolla without problem.
Loge23
(3,922 posts)I too have a Toyota and have had it with the local dealer near me (not where I purchased the vehicle from).
Simple oil changes, which is really all Toyota's need except for normal wear and tear items, routinely turn into marathon sessions culminating in a laundry list of other "problems" that need (according to them) attention - while I sit in a bus terminal-like room.
I brought the damn thing because of the Toyota reputation for reliable vehicles that need little mechanical servicing and here the dealer is disproving that every time I go there.
So I stopped going there.
I'm back to the 15 minute oil change joint. For tires, I go to Sam's - very good there for tires, but they don't do oil.
I found a local mechanic that got rave reviews on Nextdoor - he's terrific and honest. I plan to take the vehicle to them, with the laundry list Toyota gave me, for a check-up.
KS Toronado
(17,232 posts)about consumers being ripped off, the DA had the county maintenance people cause minor pocket change problems to vehicles and took them to the repair shops in question, After a month of doing this they published a front page article in The Wichita Eagle & Beacon detailing which repair shops wanted pocket change for repairs and those who wanted $$$$$$. Needless to say the shops asking $$$$$$ didn't last long in business after that. Suggest that to your local DA......you never know.
calimary
(81,261 posts)That's a good idea! Let word get around.
mopinko
(70,102 posts)i come from a long line of steel spined women, so i have a gift for this shit.
and i can turn it up to eleven if you make me.
but mostly just being clear, firm, and w a slow simmering indignation, you'd be surprised what you can do.
i write a mean letter, too.
eta, i also come from a long line of 'irish diplomats', so there's that.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)A local TV station took a car (of a couple years old) to some expert mechanic and had the car put into 100% perfect condition.
They then had a woman take the car to several auto repair places (I remember Firestone was one),
and each place told her the car needed thousands of dollars in repair work.
MissKat
(218 posts)You gave them an attitude adjustment.
The main thing is-- don't back down. RIP Tom Petty. That song goes through my head when I'm put on hold.
certainot
(9,090 posts)i hope you wipe it down, park it so the sun lights it up good, and leave it for a week at least
i've started assuming some desperate newly jobless coughed in their hand just before trying the car door while i'm in the store
stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)you think they're all getting sick from this because someone coughed in their face?
why do you think 'social distancing' and stay home works? because, partly, it reduces the times fools can make dumbass mistakes.
aggiesal
(8,914 posts)They have to tell me what they are repairing and the cost, and I get to decide
whether to do the repair or not.
Someone tells me that they repaired something for $430 without telling me?
I'm calling the police to get my car back.
Good job for using your argument and getting it compt'ed(?).
I use the same argument.
I've been a loyal customer for x years. You don't comp(?) this fee, this will be the last $430
I'm paying you. If you do comp this fee, I'll continue to be a loyal customer and you'd
probably get more than $430 from me in future services.
Which is it? $430 or more than $430? Your decision.
Ellen Forradalom
(16,160 posts)Check out the Angry Ram channel.
FIGHT LIKE A SHEEP!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVbnHeuwMt5uBDOZHgm83ig
George II
(67,782 posts)We had a situation a few years ago when my wife needed a new transmission just a few months out of warranty. The bill was something like $4800.
A week later they called me and said that they went to Honda directly to see if they could do something, and I'd be receiving a check for $3000! They did this without telling us in advance. Nice surprise.
I'd previously spoken to the president of the company (they own four dealerships in the area - Honda, Acura, Subaru, and Mitsubishi). I spent a whole hour talking about how we'd been buying our cars there for 25+ years, but their service had been going downhill recently, including their showroom people. He agreed, knew they were having problems getting help, etc. Right after that things started getting better.
I'm sure the credit from Honda had something to do with our long discussion.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)For different reasons of the possible problem. I contend that it helps if you come in sounding like you know at least something about cars, even if you are just faking it. If you come in with "yeah...I'm thinking it might be the oxygen sensor, that or maybe the solenoid" Maybe I'm wrong, but it might help at least to let them think you aren't a complete push-over.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)The dealership had to eat the cost of?
The Conductor
(180 posts)They have a Nissan, and it was making a funny noise. She took it in, and the dealer called back, asking over $700 to change the cooling fan - this on a two-year-old car. Money was tight for their family at the time, and $500 would have hurt. I quickly found the exact OEM part at RockAuto for $124.95. Then I called them back, and quoted them that price, telling them I could see in the manual that this is two bolts and a electrical connector, something I could handle with the Leatherman tool and screwdriver I carry every day. I told them that two years was ridiculous for electric fans, as the ones on my 15-year-old Scion are still running swell. And that there was nothing dangerous about electric fans making a little noise, as they had strongly informed my daughter to frighten her. I then said I was coming to get the car that minute, and if did, it would be the last Nissan my family, friends, associates or maybe even you guys here ever bought.
The service writer asked if I could hold, and came back a minute later, saying they would fix the car. For free. Afterwards, we changed dealers, and told the new dealer why.
Never let yourself be bullied or frightened into an instant answer. That's what some of the unscrupulous want. There was a great old show on the old NPR Car Talk that discussed which noises are serious and need instant attention, and which are a minor irritation that you can safely ignore (for a while... In my experience, all sounds mean something). Generally speaking, squeaks and rattles are usually ignorable, squealing and scratching sounds can usually be left for some miles, but heavy clunks, bangs, howling or clattering and heavy scraping sounds when you do something like braking all yell for quick attention.
soldierant
(6,857 posts)Very polite, no raised voice, no blaming, just stating your position and intentions. Been there, donr thst. It works. (I got what I wanted, witha "thank you for being so understanding."
Skittles
(153,160 posts)I am curous
kyburbonkid
(251 posts)Pepboys has become my best friend...
I had something nearly as rotten from some other dealers and it put me off so much, I thought, why not try the guys/n/gals at Pepboys (with an old 90s Miata.) Every job they did including majors like a timing belt were perfect. Far better work than the foo-foo dealerships, or the horridly expensive import shop where the motherf...... broke the plastic grip ring on the oil dipstick said it came that way! F-em all, and go to someone you can build a relationship with. Good mechanics are like good computer geeks in that they know the tech. Google's customer business rating system or things like Yelp can shake those folks to the core, so use them.
For me though, the relationship and work with all the good diehard mechanics at Pepboy's has always been 2000 times that I ever got from a dealer or Fi-ing - "import" shop. So that's my ShoutOut to those good guys/n/gals.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Not just for not having that payment, but being obligated to dealership service.
I now use NTB in my town, and I have nothing but praise for them.
niyad
(113,302 posts)Where I knew one of the mechanics. He, however, was not an emissions tech. They tried to tell me that my car needed possibly thousands in repairs, that it was dangerous to drive it (which, since I had just come off a thousand mile trip without a problem, I doubted). By the time I was done, the station was on a military blacklist, and under new ownership. I many not know much about cars, but I know when Repair people are trying to rip me off.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,470 posts)And the parasite rich fuck over anyone who won't stand up to them.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)...happened once, the timing belt was one of those off the street mechanics had trouble with...probably should have traded it in at that point (car companies do make certain some repairs are so difficult, that you have to take it in to the dealer if you happen to own it that long...so they can sell you another)
I use Jiffy Lube for oil changes when I'm in a hurry. I refuse everything they offer, for example, "but sir, your air filter is really dirty". Me, "yes, I know, but this car is older so I'm going to get a K&N filter and the time I have to clean that, will be time to trade it in"...nothing stated afterwards.
I do splurge at chain tire shops, such as getting the tire protection. I've found that to be worth it. I always seem to be unlucky on tires, but twice I had to replace a tire because the puncture was too close or in the side wall. So, after 30k miles, my two front tires are new.
bucolic_frolic
(43,161 posts)is mid-level auto mechanics. Brakes, rotors, master cylinders, multimeter testing, alternators, starters. All help available on YouTube. No engine work, light suspensions. Cut out the dealers, cut out the national chains mostly owned by Billionaires.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)I didn't like that work, so I found something else to do. However, I did learn a lot by doing that work.
Anyhow, I once bought a 1999 GMC 4WD Jimmy, with 80,000 miles on it from a local GMC dealer. Worst vehicle I have ever owned. Anyhow, at 90,000 miles, one of the front wheel bearings started making noise, so I took it into the same dealer. Since the car was sold new by that dealer, I asked them to check the service record and see if either of the front wheel bearings had been replaced before. No. So, I paid for them to replace both sides. The bill was substantial, but the repair was needed and I didn't want to do it myself in my driveway. So I paid the bill and let them do it.
A month and about 250 miles later, one of the front ball joints on the suspension failed while my wife was driving her mother somewhere. The car had to be towed, and it was towed to that dealer, at my request. Before I signed off on the repair, I said to the dealer, "Now, when you replaced the front wheel bearings on the vehicle, the mechanic was looking right at the ball joints on the suspension. Were they inspected"
The dealer said they weren't. "Why not?" I asked. "Where I worked, that was standard practice when you replaced front wheel bearings, since the ball joints are a wear item with a similar lifespan and are easy to inspect during a wheel bearing replacement." I explained that the ball joint failure put my wife and my mother-in-law at serious risk of injury. I told the service manager that I would be happy to pay for the new ball joints on both sides of the vehicle, but that I would not pay for the labor needed to remove and replace parts that had been removed and replaced during the wheel bearing replacement. I explained that all that work had been paid for when the bearings were replaced, and the ball joints should have been inspected while they were exposed for inspection. Had they been inspected, they would have been replaced.
The service manager tried to argue with me, but I stood my ground. I explained just what their liability would have been had my wife or mother-in-law been injured when the ball joint failed, due to their failure to inspect the ball joints.
I got the ball joints on both sides replaced for the cost of the parts, but minus the labor cost. There was no way I was going to let them charge me twice for work they had done without even inspecting the ball joints, which were worn to the point of failure at the time they replaced the bearings.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)to inform you of the cost any repairs prior to doing them. They have to give you the right to refuse their services. If they do something to render your vehicle undrivable they must make it whole again at no charge. I worked for dealerships 45 years ago and they were thieves then. Today they're the most dishonest businesses out there. Never bring your car to a dealer for any service, even recalls, many of which are unnecessary but rather a ruse to get the unsuspecting customer in the door. If there is a recall you are entitled to get it fixed by anyone you choose and the manufacturer should reimburse you. They will deny reimbursement obligations, but the threat of litigation and a report to https://www.nhtsa.gov usually gets them to obey the law.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)As more people buy cars on the Internet and get repairs in shops with good reputations, dealerships will either change their business model of theft by deception of go out of business.