Anyone alarmed at the number of people hospitalized from home in NY must not have

[highplainsdem]

Last edited Thu May 7, 2020, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)

ever lived in an apartment or condo, let alone in NYC. (I've lived there twice, in a few different buildings, Upper East Side and West Side and Murray Hill.)

Living in one unit of a multi-unit building simply isn't as safe as living in a house in the suburbs, surrounded by a sizable yard, let alone living in the country.

Simply stepping out into the hallway outside your door can expose you to germs from your neighbors and anyone visiting them or delivering to them. Hallways, after all, can be much smaller than airplane interiors, and without the ventilation, much of the time.

Unless you live on the ground floor, and that would be a small fraction of people in NYC, you'll be using stairs or an elevator to reach the ground floor, and that's likely to mean touching surfaces others have touched, and breathing more air in confined areas where others might have been coughing or sneezing only minutes earlier.

Getting your mail often means going to mail boxes in the entry lobby, or even boxes outside the door. More exposure.

And of course you risk exposure like everyone else if you go out to grocery stores or drugstores, or have items delivered.

It's unlikely landlords are sanitizing stairway railings and elevator buttons and handrails constantly. Especially in poorer communities.

So even though apartment dwellers in large cities aren't as much at risk at any given moment as people who are, say, riding the subway hours after the last cleaning, they're still at risk much more than someone living in a house in a small town or suburb whose nearest neigbor is fifty feet away, and who drives to the store and spends time in an enclosed space shared by other people (outside their family) for only a few minutes a week.

It doesn't mean that it isn't safer to stay at home as much as possible, during a pandemic.

It just means some homes are safer than others.


____

Editing to link to a NY Daily News story from April 19, which gives vivid examples of how overcrowding in NYC apartments makes matters so much worse, the risk so much greater:

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-crowded-apartments-20200419-tfwwwrvjgbgcbagwbv2tlonu7e-story.html

The cleaning is constant and the fear never-ending for Yoly Sanchez and her family of 11.

When Sanchez’s brother-in-law became the first confirmed coronavirus case in her packed two-bedroom Washington Heights apartment, their lives changed immediately and dramatically.

“We couldn’t really quarantine,” Sanchez, 46, told the Daily News. “All of us were together and using the same space so we could have all given it to one another.”

In New York City, where many living situations are multi-generational and translate into a crowded home, many renters are struggling with how to quarantine and keep family members safe in conditions that are not conducive to either.

-snip-

[jimfields33]

1. I feel for those in a studio 24/7

I’m in a 2100 square foot single family home and feel stifled at times. I also have a yard and can walk the neighborhood safely. Yes it’d be tough living in New York right now.

[highplainsdem]

3. I do, too, and their plight just isn't getting enough news coverage. I just did some googling

and found mostly local NY stories about the living conditions in many of those apartment buildings.

I'll edit the OP in a moment to link to one of those.

[LisaM]

2. At our apartment, the biggest problem is deliveries.

I live in Seattle, in a newish apartment, because this is what they have been driving us into the last ten years or so as tech workers pour in with no real plans on how to fit them in other than density.
Our apartment is okay, it's on a creek and has a nice walkway where we can be pretty isolated, though I have balcony envy since we don't have one. And people have been distant and we have a great maintenance staff who are doing deep cleaning.

But our neighbors seem to be ordering things on a daily basis. It's not unusual to see 50-100 packages piled up in the lobby since the people in the office work remotely. The bulk of it is Amazon, and is being delivered one package at a time. That's 50 or more extra people coming by every day. Every day! And with no balcony, I have to get out a couple of times a day at least (usually I can avoid the lobby during the day, but after 9:00 pm, I can't). It's a problem. We have three buildings but because ours has the office, most of the deliveries come here. We have even had delivery people walk right up to us, unmasked, looking for residents who ordered something but won't answer their phones. It's ridiculous.

[Roc2020]

4. that stat was a bit surprising

but as I'm reminded about the close living quarters in that city, it actually makes sense

[Wounded Bear]

5. All accurate and important facts, especially for older buildings...

and I'm sure there are a few of those in NYC.

I've learned negotiate the stairs with just two contact points on the handrails. But it is still contact.

Difficult times.

[patphil]

6. My daughter lived in 2 different apartments in NYC.

Both multi-floor walk-ups.
It's absolutely true that hallways, lobbies, and stairwells would be virus hot zones. You just can't get away from people.
And it's impossible to keep these areas sanitized; re-infection could occur in minutes.
At least now she lives in an apartment in Albuquerque, NM. It's a much more open setup, and much less dangerous than NYC.

[LymphocyteLover]

7. Exactly-- thank you

[LymphocyteLover]

8. Poor people really can't socially distance

it's a luxury to be able to do that

[TreasonousBastard]

9. I have lived in a 6 floor railroad flat on the Upper West Side and a new new renovation a block...

from Wall Street, and am not at all surprised, although I admit some initial shock at the number.

Truth is, after thinking about it for a second or two, I wonder why not 90%?

Even if "self-quarantined" you're still living in an enormous concentration of people. You have to touch the front door to get in, you do laundry in a common space, you touch elevator buttons, you touch mailboxes, and you, or at least many of your neighbors, do not live alone. That old "You're having sex with the last 10 people he/she has..." needs to be revised. Has the super, or other maintenance type been in lately? Cable or phone installations?

And, just how do all of these people define their quarantines-- does the early jog along the river count? How about, "Oh, I only go out to get groceries? Or is your roommate/lover also equally quarantined? How about small get-togethers with old friends?

Do they still have rent parties?

[HarlanPepper]

10. Exactly, which is why there's no chance in hell I'd ever live in NYC

Great place to visit for a few days, not my cup of tea as a place to live. The constant competition with other humans for space on sidewalks, on mass transit and everywhere else is exhausting.

For reference, NYC population density is about 28,000 per sq mile. In London, it’s half that. And it is almost 20 times my current home city.

[cwydro]

11. Good point.

I’ve assumed that they have spreaders visiting them. The visitors would be completely unaware of course, but you’re right about all the other things I’d not even considered.

And wouldn’t you be essentially sharing air in an apartment building?

Maybe a stupid question, but I’ve been lucky enough to live in a house most of my life, except for a short time in college. Never liked apartments.

[crickets]

12. K&R for the post and the discussion.