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(108,903 posts)We have a democratic president.
Wait...wut?
rgbecker
(4,804 posts)Still having trouble getting the OWS thing?
Know of any other examples?
gateley
(62,683 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Bravo!
noise
(2,392 posts)Insider vs. outsider is the true criteria.
Bush's patriotism is not up for review. Consequently he must have acted in good faith.
Manning's patriotism is up for review. Thus his conduct is to be regarded in the realm of a traitor, malcontent, etc.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Why does he get credit? We knew Iraq was wrong long before we'd ever heard of him.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)duhneece
(4,093 posts)I pray he will be ok.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)ProgressoDem
(221 posts)You are aware that Obama actually did challenge it.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm
yurbud
(39,405 posts)ProgressoDem
(221 posts)As in, totally reversed the Bush policy of being at war there.
midnight
(26,624 posts)The truth is more complicated. It turns out the Obama administration is leaving behind a huge contingent from the State Department along with thousands of armed private contractors. The possibility for violence between Americans and Iraqis is very real.
To dig into the details, I spoke to Spencer Ackerman, who has been covering the issue closely for Wireds Danger Room.
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/no_the_u_s_is_not_leaving_iraq/
yurbud
(39,405 posts)nod to Iraqis, that would be fine with me, but we don't know if that was the case yet.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...the soldiers/CIA laughed when they saw they killed innocent children. For that truth, Manning must be punished.
Whatever happened to "The Truth shall set you free?"
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)And dont try to rationalize that Manning isnt a whistle-blower. The point of this OP as I see it, is to point out the inequity of the 1% vs. the 99% and that rubs you the wrong way. One of the two is responsible for the torture and deaths of many and will not get punished. The other has already been punished and has killed no one.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is silly to love him and idolize him merely for breaking the rules.
We all knew the problems with Iraq. We did not need him to reveal classified information. As it is, I hope he didn't cause someone to get killed (someone who was working for us).
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)just for the sake of that - what sense does that make? We can't even defend the rule of law without being accused of that?
Whistleblowed what?
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)I'm done with you.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I merely reversed what you did so you should WTF to yourself.
What did Manning Whistleblow?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)We didnt know much of what was happening in Iraq except what our government wants us to know. That apparently is ok with you. But you seem to back those in power over those that are struggling against those in power. In 1776 i think you would be a Tory.
treestar
(82,383 posts)No I would not have been a Tory. Get away from your personal attacks and back to the issue.
Why is it OK with you just on principle that national security laws should always be disregarded and that anyone who reveals the government's operation is automatically a hero?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)autocracies they are committing in our name, those laws are not just. Didnt Bush and Cheney effectively cancel the rule of law? Why do you selectively want to use it on one of the 99%?
It should be clear that We The People have a huge uphill fight to restore our Democracy and Manning is fighting for the side I am on.
My equating you with a Tory was not meant as an attack, but pointing out that in many of your posts you side with those in power or at least criticize those that are fighting against the 1%'s dominance. Did some of our founders break the law in their fight for freedom? Of course they did, and many were hanged.
The Revolution is here, and you need to pick a side.
treestar
(82,383 posts)You show where you are they are wrong ipso facto.
I tend to "side" with them here merely by questioning automatic condemnation of them. Again you are making it personal.
What did Manning reveal as whistleblower?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)can never be sided with". However, I will say that when Cheney was in power, I would agree that one should never side with that power. Where i might agree that one should not always side against those in power, I would also argue that one shouldnt always side with those in power just because they happen to call themselves Democrats.
I want transparency in government and since they are supposed to be representing me at my pleasure, I think I can demand it. But confidentiality laws are used by our government to hide their actions from We The People that are not needed to be hidden for security reasons but to hid their actions from those that elected them so they cant be held accountable.
As for "making it personal", I dont know what you are talking about. You are obviously on a different side than I am in this class war, but my pointing that out shouldnt be considered an attack.
As far as what has Manning revealed? You can find out as easily as I can. I am guessing you choose not to.
Good luck to you.
noise
(2,392 posts)into supporting the invasion of Iraq. The insiders knew the intel was complete bullshit.
Insiders have abused secrecy laws to manipulate the public which has resulted in horrendous consequences. The Manning leaks pale in comparison. Look at 9/11. Have you even seen a tragedy more exploited? What makes it worse is that the government officials who continue to exploit 9/11 have never accounted for pre-9/11 conduct. Instead they spout garbage talking points that warn of damage to national security if information is released. Evidently there is nothing wrong with exploiting the public at every turn with propaganda and fearmongering. Only when someone dares to expose the lies is there talk of investigations and prison sentences.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Manning is the one who exposed all of this?
The exploitation of 911 is something we all allowed (as a country) before anyone ever heard of Manning. And those of us who did not like it argued against it in that time too.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)midnight
(26,624 posts)The Wizard
(12,467 posts)with the Geneva Convention to report war crimes. All military service members are required to be informed of edicts of the Geneva Convention.
The United States military committed war crimes. That may be an uncomfortable fact in this era of uniform worship, but it's a fact.
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)The fact that he spent nine months in solitary while Dick Armitage, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, and that whole collection of stooges who leaked the name of a CIA agent never saw the inside of a jail cell is ridiculous.
Leaking classified information is clearly only considered a serious crime when the peons do it.
rgbecker
(4,804 posts)Those serving right now, take note.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)The Wizard
(12,467 posts)is a serial killer with impunity.
wakemewhenitsover
(1,595 posts)_ed_
(1,734 posts)And Bush didn't confine him in solitary from 2009-2012. Bush also isn't prosecuting him for "aiding the enemy."
I think someone else is President now. And that President his waging an unprecedented war on whistleblowers like Manning.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)but the sentiment is correct as far as it goes.