CDC now says coronavirus 'does not spread easily' via contaminated surfaces

[RandySF]

For those of you still wiping down groceries and other packages amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, breathe a sigh of relief: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now says the novel virus “does not spread easily” from "touching surfaces or objects" — but experts warn that doesn’t mean it’s no longer necessary to take "practical and realistic" precautions in stopping the spread of COVID-19.

Though it’s not exactly clear when, the federal health agency appears to have recently changed its guidelines from early March that simply said it “may be possible” to spread the virus from contaminated surfaces. The CDC now includes "surfaces or objects" under a section that details ways in which the coronavirus does not readily transmit.

Other ways in which the virus does not easily spread is from animals to people, or from people to animals, the federal agency said on its updated page.

“COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning about how it spreads. It may be possible for COVID-19 to spread in other ways, but these are not thought to be the main ways the virus spreads,” according to the CDC.

The CDC did, however, remind citizens that the virus does mainly spread person-to-person, noting the virus that causes a COVID-19 infection, SARS-CoV-2, "is spreading very easily and sustainably between people.”


https://www.ktvu.com/news/cdc-now-says-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-via-contaminated-surfaces

[MontanaMama]

1. Why do I not believe this?

[MyOwnPeace]

10. Because IQ45..........

has spent SO much time trying to convince you that HE is the only one you can trust and believe (beware of the plaid suit!).

[greenjar_01]

2. I think this is in line with what virologists were saying from the beginning

The related inference, however, is that it spreads far more easily in aersolized droplets than we initially thought. If its rapid spread is not attributable to easy spread on surfaces, then it's moving much more easily through the air.

[RandySF]

8. Once upon a time, I believed everything the CDC said

but after watch the number Trump doing on the agency, I'm not sure.

[greenjar_01]

11. Many virologists non-affiliated with CDC were questioning easy spread on surfaces since early March

The argument has been that even if virus is detected on objects, it degrades quickly to non-viable.

I agree that Trump has undermined the credibility of the CDC, but this was really the common argument among virologists, many of whom were mystified by claims of easy spread on surfaces.

[LanternWaste]

33. Ironic

"The problem is that with this particular thing, the experts are making their best guesses. Expert best guesses are, of course, orders of magnitude better than dipshit in the street best guesses. Goes without saying....:

[greenjar_01]

67. Still true

So?

[roamer65]

58. Mask wearing should be law.

I agree with you and masks greatly suppress the aerosolization of the virus.

Make it law with stiff penalties for not wearing one. They also should be handed out for free to everyone.

[Hugin]

3. If it does not cite an actual study discussing scientific findings about fomite transfer risk...

I'm not going to believe it.

I've lost confidence in the non-partisan nature of the CDC.

[former9thward]

34. Can you cite an actual study that says it does transfer easily from surfaces?

The only reason people thought it was transferred by contact from surfaces was that originally China denied it was person to person aerosol transferred. So if that were true then it had to be surface contact and thus not much of a problem outside of China. It turned out China was giving out false information.

[Hugin]

41. Sure.

Just type "fomite transfer risk" into your handy dandy browser and read to your heart's content.

Which makes it even more suspicious the CDC guidance doesn't cite any evidence yea or nay.

This guidance is a Billy Barrian contentless report akin to the Mueller memo.

[former9thward]

43. There is nothing on those sites about Covid 19

The surface contact story was spread by the Chinese Communist Party until February 19th.

[Hugin]

50. If you'd even bothered to open the very first link from that search...

You would've seen this report from the US National Institutes of Health.

Which says exactly:

"Fomites consist of both porous and nonporous surfaces or objects that can become contaminated with pathogenic microorganisms and serve as vehicles in transmission (Table ​ Table1)1) (24, 31, 58, 63, 66). During and after illness, viruses are shed in large numbers in body secretions, including blood, feces, urine, saliva, and nasal fluid (10, 33, 34, 39, 48, 58). Fomites become contaminated with virus by direct contact with body secretions or fluids, contact with soiled hands, contact with aerosolized virus (large droplet spread) generated via talking, sneezing, coughing, or vomiting, or contact with airborne virus that settles after disturbance of a contaminated fomite (i.e., shaking a contaminated blanket) (22, 24, 27, 58, 66). Once a fomite is contaminated, the transfer of infectious virus may readily occur between inanimate and animate objects, or vice versa, and between two separate fomites (if brought together) (27, 66). The Pancic study (52) recovered 3 to 1,800 PFU of rhinovirus from fingertips of volunteers who handled contaminated doorknobs or faucets. Using coliphage PRD-1 as a model, Rusin et al. (60) demonstrated that 65% of virus could be transferred to uncontaminated hands and 34% to the mouth. The nature and frequency of contact with contaminated surfaces vary for each person depending on age, personal habits, type of activities, personal mobility, and the level of cleanliness in the surroundings (66). Viral transfer and disease transmission is further complicated by variations in virus survival on surfaces and the release of viruses from fomites upon casual contact (24, 66). Virus survival on fomites is influenced by intrinsic factors which include fomite properties or virus characteristics and extrinsic factors, including environmental temperature, humidity, etc. (Fig. ​ Fig.1)1) (24, 66). If viruses remain viable on surfaces long enough to come in contact with a host, the virus may only need to be present in small numbers to infect the host (10, 58, 66, 71). After contact with the host is achieved, viruses can gain entry into the host systems through portals of entry or contact with the mouth, nasopharynx, and eyes (10, 24, 58, 66). Host susceptibility to viruses is influenced by previous contact with the virus and the condition of the host immune system at the time of infection (27)."

and also this, which even the revised CDC guidance does say, we don't know about COVID-19 so looking at the risks associated with the same classes of viruses is all we've got:

Coronavirus Hospitals (23), apartment (62) Phones, doorknobs, computer mouse, toilet handles (23), latex gloves, sponges (68)

And, on top of that, what's it to you if I don't stop wiping down my groceries?

[former9thward]

54. Oh, wipe them down.

Spray them with bleach. Go for it. I just believe in science when assessing risks in life. Others may differ...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

73. Here's some science ...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41943627_Effects_of_Air_Temperature_and_Relative_Humidity_on_Coronavirus_Survival_on_Surfaces

[Hugin]

75. Thanks for the science...

Although, I'm not sure even surrogate data will please the open-er-up crowd.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

77. Things I can't disinfect get a 14 day quarantine. Too much disinformation flying around.

I'd rather overkill the precautions than kill the household.

[Hugin]

79. Biological contamination is more like a minefield than like a radiation.

It is wise to do as you are saying. Particularly, if you or someone in your household is high risk.

As was said below, exposure time is critical in becoming infected. The greatest potential exposure time would be if you brought a contaminated item into an area where people are spending the most time with the least protection. Eventually, it will likely be touched and spread to a vulnerable site on the body.

It's like I was saying, why do they care if I'm wiping down my groceries. In reality, they don't. What they do care about is their precious "V" shaped economic recovery as indicated by the market indices to get Trump re-elected and resume their looting at the least possible cost to them and the least possible liability to the employers.

"Privatize the profits, socialize the risk."

It's Disaster Capitalism writ large and in labor's face.

[fantase56]

4. Wow, that's great.....

Think I'll wipe down my groceries anyway....

[phylny]

25. Yes, I just did it this morning.

It takes about 20 minutes for a very full load, and it's no big deal.

[crickets]

57. Absolutely. nt

[dem4decades]

5. The CDC has no credibility. Thanks Trump. And Brix too.

Fucking whores.

[rockfordfile]

70. I agree

[CatMor]

6. I don't believe this ...

I think it's pressure from trump so everything will open up. He does not care about lives, just his own. The economy is all he cares about.

[SWBTATTReg]

7. Well, I'll still wipe down my groceries, since I'm used to doing it now. Doesn't hurt, to be...

a little more safer, eh? The animals I'm definitely glad to hear about (animals or vice versa transmittal), since I have 3 doggies. Fortunately the doggies are isolated like me, but still, every little bit helps, eh?

[Pobeka]

22. I agree. If it's a minor inconvenience to eliminate a small chance of death, I'll do it! n/t

[old guy]

9. The CDC is not on top of my reliable list at this time. Sadly.

[octoberlib]

12. German scientists said the same thing about a month ago. They've done a lot of research on

it. Can't remember the German virologist's name but he said an infected person would have to sneeze on an object right before somebody touched it and then that person would have to immediately rub their eyes or stick their fingers in their mouth.

Here's the article:
A virologist from the University of Bonn is using the hard-hit region of Heinsberg, Germany, as a living laboratory to study the coronavirus. Professor Hendrik Streeck is leading a study on the region, which has been dubbed "Germany's Wuhan" because of its large number of coronavirus cases.

Streeck and his team are attempting to root out the sources of infection by studying residents of the northwestern region. Speaking to press on Tuesday, he said most cases of coronavirus in Heinsberg originated from people being close together for a significant period of time, and not from touching surfaces with virus particles on them.

Streeck went on to say that though the virus could "live" on various surfaces for up to seven days, he believed there was little chance that someone could become infected via surfaces, contradicting both the Center for Disease Control and National Institute of Health guidelines.

Streeck posited that in order to contract the virus via a surface like a doorknob, "it would be necessary that someone coughs into their hand, immediately touches a doorknob, and then straight after that another person grasps the handle and goes on to touches their face," Streeck told reporters.


Instead, claims Streeck, his study found that: "There is no significant risk of catching the disease when you go shopping. Severe outbreaks of the infection were always a result of people being closer together over a longer period of time.


https://www.businessinsider.com/death-rate-german-laboratory-city-5x-less-than-national-average-2020-4

And sciencemag.com said the same thing yesterday. Main mode of transmission is close , prolonged contact.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/why-do-some-covid-19-patients-infect-many-others-whereas-most-don-t-spread-virus-all

[LizBeth]

16. Good to read because I just went to store, did not want to wipe down everything. Can't believe CDC

Now. They work for Trump and appease.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Great news, White House cabinet members can resume kissing Trump's ass.

[spanone]

14. Redfield looking to get back in the psychopath's bad graces

[LizBeth]

15. Here is the problem. Who can believe them. They have fudged info to appease Trump and lies.

[RockRaven]

17. Unfortunately one cannot trust anything any federal agency says under Trump.

This statement may be perfectly true and evidence-based. But I cannot rely on it being so. Not without seeking an independent source of corroboration.

In fact, given the track record of the last 3+ years, one ought to assume some degree of politicized misinformation in all federal-to-public communications.

Trump has corrupted everything, and destroyed the credibility of every entity under his control, including the CDC.

[maxsolomon]

18. I'm sick of washing everything that comes into the house.

The chain of events required for a CV-19 virus to get to me through a frozen pizza box is implausible. Not IMPOSSIBLE, just implausible.

This is good news, and I trust it. The CDC is not 100% compromised by Trump's Apparatchiks.

[BannonsLiver]

21. That's more or less where I'm at on most things.

There's a creepy echo of some thinking from the other side in this thread. It's weird and a little disturbing, tbh.

[maxsolomon]

23. "Do you own research!"

The CDC is not going to straight-up lie about transmission vectors.

[Celerity]

31. +1

[Ms. Toad]

38. They straight up lied about masks. n/t

[coti]

40. They asked the wrong question- it's not as much whether it protects the wearer (in non-medical

settings) as it is whether it helps to protect others.

[Ms. Toad]

42. It protects both

Although it protects others more than the wearer. That was evident from publically available research available at the time.

They lied to preserve N95 masks for medical workers - rather than tell the truth and figure out how to preserve the masks for those who need them most - AND - we are now paying the price for that lie in the form of all of the COVIDiots who are citing the CDC's earlier statements on masks as the basis/excuse for (1) not wearing them now and (2) not believing what the CDC says.

[EllieBC]

55. It took until today

for our fantastic public health officer to finally say wearing masks would be wise.

I understand why they up here and the CDC lies but it was a stupid lie. They should have just said, “duh obviously masks protect. But we need the good ones for health care workers. Fabric will work ok for the average citizen not being exposed to constant sick patients. And they’ll protect the wearer and everyone else so fucking wear them.”.

Instead they idiotically lied and now are trying to pray people will be altruistic and wear masks for everyone else.

[musicblind]

72. That lie killed a lot of my trust in the CDC.

They should have just said, "Yeah, of course they work." And then followed it up by telling people, "BUT, don't go running out and buying them. Don't be selfish and use your brain. Save those masks for the people who need them most."

[Celerity]

30. Groupthink is everywhere, not just here on DU. Agendas are colouring so much about COVID-19

coverage on every side. As a Swedish resident (Stockholm, and I also hold other citizenships - US (by birth in Los Angeles) and UK (grew up in London) I am acutely aware of slanted coverage and major disinfo being pumped out to fit the agendas (from micro to macro) of whomever is pushing it. Minefields everywhere, it is quite distressing.

here is a perfect example of that

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213462645#post14

[BannonsLiver]

32. Oh, of course it is everywhere.

I hope I didn't imply otherwise. I have enjoyed your posts throughout this mess. Stay safe over there.

[Celerity]

35. Perhaps I used the wrong phraseology, I did not mean to imply you said otherwise.

stay safe yourself!

We are fine, (already had it and had zero symptoms) and are pretty now much back to normal (other than what the restrictions here dictate and prevent.) Most frustrating thing was that we isolated for over two months and still got it (unless we got it before we isolated, which is quite possible.) At least we did not spread the virus, and no longer can (for now), which is a good thing.

[LeftInTX]

24. I never did that washing down stuff

Just wiped frequently touch surfaces, such as door handles etc.

[Midnightwalk]

19. Mission accomplished

Reading the replies I see multiple people express doubt at the cdc. Understandable, but that’s the lasting damage of politicizing science.

Skepticism has always been important but when neither side trusts the experts we’re in trouble. When the EPA starts telling us that lead is good for us, we have to call that as political bs, but we are poorer for that necessity

[coti]

27. Agreed. I think I actually tend to believe this.

Those who haven't read it, please read this:

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

[RandySF]

48. I'm just throwing my hands up in the air at this point.

[captain queeg]

20. It does seem like when we learn of new clusters it's usually following some gathering.

Guess we’ll find out in Wisconsin in a couple weeks with all those packed bar rooms. More reason to get those Nazi rallies going again.

[coti]

28. Right.

There are patterns emerging supporting the idea that it primarily transfers through the air from person to person.

[captain queeg]

51. Which is extra scary really. You could walk in a place and breath someone else's air

After they just left.

[Hekate]

26. Trump has managed to shake my faith in announcements from the CDC. I hate that. nt

[crickets]

61. Same. Until trump is gone, I am wary of any message coming from the CDC.

Plus, we didn't all just start cleaning surface germs when COVID-19 came along. Granted, groceries and mail are new level, but in general we were all taught that unclean surfaces are germy breeding grounds. You touch a germy surface, then put your fingers in or on your nose, eyes, or mouth and bam! You've exposed yourself to the germs. I am baffled that someone suddenly says, "oh no, it's fine for this virus to ignore that rule about germy surfaces that you've known about since kindergarten hand washing lessons."

It sounds to me like somebody is paving the way for businesses to save money by relaxing their vigilance on worker safety and on the expense of keeping things clean enough (hiring somebody to clean every half hour, for instance) to get people to come out and spend money. Call me jaded, but that's what I'm hearing.

[KWR65]

29. There is no harm in wiping down groceries. Is this adivce Trump approved?

[wiggs]

36. BS. We're only supposed to worry about the primary method of spread, not the secondary or

tertiary methods? These are suggestions based on overall public and economic health concerns, not individuals. And on overall national evaluation, not specific areas that might be hot spots (and who knows where the hot spots are exactly today?). Seems an irresponsible position without also emphasizing that other kinds of spread are possible and some people who can't afford to/want to get sick should utilize as many precautions as they can.

The leading cause of death in the US was heart disease...does that mean we don't need to worry about the second leading cause, and third and fourth? Glad to hear it! But I think I'll still be watchful for cancer, drive carefully, keep my blood pressure in check, avoid glyphosphates, and get regular exercise.

What the hell? It does not 'READILY' transmit but we are 'still learning about how it spreads?'

It can last for days on surfaces but we should NOT be concerned with that?

We don't really know how many people are walking around with infectious conditions and we should worry about loud talking, singing, or coughing if within 6' (or 18' if there's a breeze) but NOT where the moist droplets land?

Cuomo said that 66% of new patients in NY were mostly staying at home...but we should NOT think it's a possibility that groceries, deliveries, or shoes might account for some of that?

Health care workers are wearing full gowns and gloves but why is that if we should only be concerned with virus-laden droplets exhaled from a person going directly into eyes or nose?

PERHAPS the chance of infection by accepting an Amazon package directly from a masked delivery person is infinitesimally low...but I doubt anyone really knows at this moment if it is infinitesimal, pretty low, low, 50/50, or tremendously stupid. So do we behave like it's one in a million or really stupid?

BS. And tragic. Be careful

[Meowmee]

78. This

It is bs, it can spread that way, if there is any risk, don’t take it. I will continue to steam/ sanitize everything coming in to our house. People sneeze on surfaces frequently, touch them after sneezing etc., others touch them, often immediately after, and then touch their face etc. it happens all the time.

I knew masks would protect not just others but the wearer, and not less, lol. It is sooo obvious. Use your brains.

[Done_Playin]

82. Yep... like we're only supposed to worry about "ICU capacity"

Honestly, any news that lessens anxiety is VERY good news for me, (and I intend to follow up on some of the above-posted links too).

But, lessening anxiety and lessening vigilance are two different things. I don't think a case has conclusively been made for the latter, and certainly not by this "nothing sandwich" from the CDC.

[wiggs]

83. good point, good way to put it. nt

[wiggs]

37. Why then, if that's the case, do health care workers wear hospital gowns? nt

[DrToast]

39. For those that don't believe this

What is there to be gained if this is a lie? Who would benefit?

[Ms. Toad]

44. For me it's less a matter of who would benefit -

as it is whether the CDC is a source I can rely on without independent confirmation (on this or any other issue).

I apply the same rule I do to written work from any source - if I encouter easily disprovable assertions, the article is useless - EVEN if everything else is the gospel truth. Because of the early careless or deliberate misstatements, anything else is not trustworthy and I will have to go directly to the source to confirm it anyway - so I choose not to bother with the untrustworthy source.

[DrToast]

46. That's fine, but some are implying Trump is pressuring them

I just can't think of any logical reason why he would do that in this case.

[Ms. Toad]

49. He has successfully pressured them on other things

so whether he is successfully pressuring them on this is pretty much irrelevant. I have to assume he is and/or that what they are saying may not be true.

As for why he would want to - it feeds his off-again-on-again story abotu COVID 19 being fake news, overblown, not easily transmitted, etc. Same reason he refuses to wear a mask.

[JCMach1]

53. It changes re-opening parameters... Precisely

The Admin's agenda

[crickets]

62. *ding!* Exactly. nt

[doc03]

45. But we can't believe anything that comes out of this government anymore. nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

47. The CDC has become an unwilling tool of Dr. Orange Anus

Don't believe shit they say anymore.

[JCMach1]

52. Not believing anything they say. They have been politicized

and largely coopted.

They straight-up lied about masks.

Any reason we should.believe.them now?

[Luciferous]

56. These are the same people that told us we didn't need masks at first, so I think

I'll just keep wiping down my groceries. It only takes an extra couple of minutes anyway...

[RobinA]

59. Well, This Is A Relief

because when I wear the mask they tell me I have to wear after telling me it did nothing, I touch my face constantly because it interferes with my glasses, causing me to have to look through the reading part. I won’t worry about that any more.

[Yavin4]

60. If people could routinely contract the virus through touching surfaces, we would have seen major

spikes by now.

[roamer65]

63. THIS.

I strongly believe it is spread by aerosolization in closed spaces, LIKE CHURCHES.

That is how it initially spread in South Korea.

[Yavin4]

65. And cruise ships, nursing homes, airplanes, multi-family homes, workplaces, etc.

Grocery stores are iffy. However, most shoppers are in and out, and if everyone is wearing a mask, then the risk is minimized.

[greenjar_01]

68. Agree...recent reports that amount of exposure is a factor would probably explain

grocery stores not being a major spreader, for the reasons you give.

[marlakay]

64. I don't believe a word any of his

People say. I only listen to scientists outside his influence.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

66. Now I can lick handrails again!

JOKING!
Edit: And I've NEVER done such a disgusting thing.

It's good news, and it doesn't mean that reasonable people will be careless now.

Key words: "does not spread easily".

[wiggs]

69. If surfaces aren't to be a concern, why are some airports removing doors to bathrooms? And

why are companies and agencies developing touchless bathroom designs? Why wash hands? Why do some restaurants now sanitize restrooms every 30 minutes?

CNN is not exactly a scientific authority but looks like their examples are true.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2020/05/19/exp-tsr-todd-how-bathrooms-can-be-made-cleaner-or-touch-free-so-people-can-go.cnn

[ecstatic]

71. I've been wiping down food packages since 2014 or so,

although a lot more intensely these days, based on information I received regarding shipping conditions. Especially packages of snacks that I handle frequently, like pretzels, etc.

Just like you have to wash your hands before you eat, you shouldn't handle a dirty bag and then touch the food inside and then eat that tainted food.

And what does "not spread easily" even mean? 5% chance? 10% chance? Either it does or it doesn't. I just saw a report of a woman catching the virus from a freaking keypad while checking out at the store.

Now less than two weeks since Brummert first appeared on WCNC Charlotte and became a national mystery, an epidemiologist has solved the mystery. (That update is below.)

At a higher risk for complications due to her underlying condition, Brummert said she listened to the health experts. Other than a trip to the pharmacy more than three weeks ago, she hasn’t left her house once.

“I really thought I was doing everything right,” she said.

An epidemiologist called Brummert Tuesday, April 21 with the news: They had traced her exposure back to the keypad at the pharmacy.

https://www.wcnc.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/charlotte-woman-hasnt-left-her-house-in-three-weeks-but-tested-positive-for-covid-19/275-77707b1d-fd2f-4a36-bf3e-16beca4104c4

[Hugin]

76. A keypad at a pharmacy?

Wow... Well, they say the inoculate level of COVID is only 1000 viral units.

So, there you go.

[MoonlitKnight]

74. I am skeptical

Frequent hand washing and not touching your face works to minimize risk of catching any virus.
Wiping down items from outside minimizes the need to do that while at home.
While transmission is less likely, it remains if someone infected sneezed on that bag of Doritos just before you took it off the shelf.
Wearing a mask reduces the risk of passing it to others and to some extent minimizes your exposure.

[Politicub]

80. Keep washing your hands, people. Try not to touch your face.

“Does not spread easily” does not mean that it doesn’t spread at all.

My approach will not change based on this news. I try to be hyper-vigilant when I think through what I touch when buying groceries, etc., and go behind myself after I get home to sanitize doorknobs and counters. I also take a shower and change my clothes because droplets may be lurking in my hair.

Studies have shown that the virus can live on some surfaces for days. I am not willing to let my guard down yet. PIN pads are my nemesis.

[Hugin]

81. The shower is a good idea.

The droplets could get spread from your hair to your pillowcases and into vulnerable areas as you sleep.

The authorities say it's not likely, but, what's it to them if I take a shower?

I tent a towel over my finger when using a PIN pad whenever possible.