I live in St. Paul, across the Mississippi River from Minneapolis.

[MineralMan]

I was horrified by the video of one white policeman killing a black man while three other police officers stood by and did nothing. I am an old white man. I recognize the incredible amount of privilege I have for simply being an old white man.

Here's my take on the looting and burning that took place last night in Minneapolis. I watched it live on YouTube, as recorded by many people on their cell phones. I watched more of it this morning on the local and national news. I understand why it happened. Apparently, the white powers that be do not understand it.

Had the four police officers been arrested immediately and jailed for their part in the murder of that black man, the ensuing rioting probably would not have taken place. Inaction on the part of authorities after the deliberate killing of a black man in handcuffs, and the failure to immediately arrest all involved in that death played a pivotal role in inciting people who have no recourse against police killings to do seemingly unrelated acts of violence, etc. in the neighborhood of the police precinct office from which those officers acted.

Was looting and burning a useful protest? No, it was not. However, when nothing is done about the police murder of a black man in a neighborhood full of people of the same race, people will react to that failure of justice. It's not a matter of whether or not the reactions are related to the crime that was committed. It is a matter of empowerment.

By not arresting and charging the officers responsible for the death of a black man in handcuffs, the law enforcement community in Minneapolis signaled that a black life does not matter. It signaled that a black man can be killed without consequence. What happened next was predictable.

Nobody has been arrested still for the unjustified death of that black man. The response from the community will continue, I have no doubt.

To the Cops in the MPD: "You're not all that!"

[redstatebluegirl]

1. Thank you for saying so well how I have felt this morning.

[MineralMan]

3. You're more than welcome.

I was prompted to write that by a thread condemning the looting and burning. It was clear to me that the poster who wrote that thread had no understanding of the reasons those things happened.

When powerless people have no recourse for justice, they act out in ways that may be unrelated to what their real issue is. When a group of cops can kill a person of color with impunity, a reaction is required. If there is no reaction that will lead to justice for the dead person, that reaction will result in actions taken that don't directly relate to the harm that was done.

As a society, we are very stupid, I think.

[redstatebluegirl]

11. My beloved Grandfather used to say that the republic will end with an uneducated electorate.

I am quite sure we are there.

[wnylib]

82. Anger and rage at powerlessness

in the face of injustice has to be vented or it will destroy the person(s) who feel it.

[Evolve Dammit]

91. Agreed.

[PatrickforO]

119. There is another twist to this, Mineral. An evil one.

I have been following this, too, and saw a deeply disturbing set of videos on Twitter of a gas-masked white cop breaking out the windows along a store front.

Being 61 as I am, and having older cousins who protested Vietnam (and others who served), I remember COINTELPRO. Peaceful protests bug the hell out of the establishment, which is horrified when they happen because the people don't know how powerful they actually are, and the powers that be don't want them to.

So, after Gandhi, the establishment learned that in the face of peaceful protest, one guy fomenting violence and causing a riot might get public opinion to shift and allow the National Guard to be called in, and the police line to wade in with batons and rubber bullets and gas.

I believe there have been agents provocateurs in many of the protests over the past few years. Certainly in St. Louis. And it wouldn't surprise me if this gas-masked jerk, who was outed, by the way, wasn't the only masked white guy inciting the rioters to violence. This is what is so sick about the establishment in the face of labor or race or anti-war protest movements. They only really care about keeping their power and privilege, and certainly have no interest in expanding that power and privilege to be more inclusive and less racist.

[MineralMan]

4. There are no excuses for either.

There are reasons for both. I am discussing reasons, not excuses.

[Shell_Seas]

17. How far are people supposed to be pushed before they push back?

What would you do if your friends, loved ones, and community members were murdered again and again and again, with no consequences??

Merchandise can be replaced. Black lives cannot.

[MineralMan]

23. Exactly!

[Shell_Seas]

39. No innocent people were attacked last night.

[Shell_Seas]

73. Not on any of the livestreams or news articles I've seen.

[Shell_Seas]

84. I had a feeling that's what you were talking about.

Here is the FULL VIDEO. Not the angle and clip the racists are passing around.

This dumb Trumper, in the middle of a riot, which was caused by an unarmed black man being killed tried to block the door of Target and then tried to STAB people. With a knife. It wasn't until after that she was pushed and hit.

She deserved what she got. And unlike the thousands of black men killed over the years by police officers, she still has her life.

Link to tweet

?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0cmrzBfky2foIDY9ofEBXGHNZX5b2gXtwNIQUfOMz83JGP_FMixai_JIE

[Shell_Seas]

89. I said not the angle the racists were passing around.

[jaxexpat]

109. That's all kind of Old Testamentish.

I paraphrase: Show me one righteous man in this and I'll stop this destruction.

By the time the riot is on it's too late to separate the pepper from the fly s--t.

By the time we have grafted our historical context onto the current unpleasantness, it's already happened.

It's like when there's too much pee in the water park. It's not a water park at all any more. It's something else.

[Jirel]

24. Good gods - what bothsiderism.

Police conduct in Minneapolis is inexcusable, and has been for decades. I lived in or near that neighborhood for decades until I moved out of state.

You do not get to conflate looting with protest. Different groups of people.

Also, while it sucks, oppressed folks taking the opportunity to take material property is not violence. Don’t even put it in the same category as police violence and injustice for decades. Neighborhoods and people break under years of strain. That happened last night.

No more false equivalence. No more equating lives with property interests.

[Jirel]

74. I stand by my original comments.

Looting is not violence.

Police shooting teargas constantly is.

Some burning junk is not violence.

Police hurling flashbangs into protestors standing with hands up and yelling, is.

A few rocks and water bottles being hurled is violence.

Next to hours of projectiles shot into the crowd, it’s nothing.

And once again, you put attacks on people and property together as something to be upset about.

I lived in that neighborhood for decades. I hated it when my house was robbed several times. But that was NOTHING compared to the police misconduct. If I was still in MN, I would be standing with those folks, even though that was MY Target and MY grocery store and MY auto parts store that were decimated.

Black lives matter.

Property is insured and can be rebuilt.

Let’s never put those things together.

[wnylib]

104. The anger and rage are justified and

inevitable. People cannot endure what has been happening to POC without pushing back and venting for the sake of their own sanity.

But here are some other things that have occurred to me since the cop murder of George Floyd.

There are supremacy groups in this country who have been itching to provoke "race wars." They have sympathizers, friends, and even some members in law enforcement and politics. They would love to use riots as an excuse to impose emergency rules that empower them to arrest and kill people en masse. They have more power, weapons, and numbers.

What would it take to make this terrorization and murder of POC stop? If riots and/or open street battles would accomplish that, then maybe that's what people need to do. But if those measures would not achieve an end to terrorization and murder, then what would be effective?

I have always been amazed at and in awe of the peaceful resisters who joined with MLK. I do not believe that I could have had their restraint. Were they effective in bringing about legal and social changes?

What would be most effective today in stopping the killings and fear-mongering against POC?

[quakerboy]

97. Who attacked innocent people and property?

I am hearing that individuals responsible for some of the fires were later spotted walking into police precincts presumably to either get in uniform or clock out.

And someone got shot. Who, by who, why? Is there any reason at this time, other than convenience of narrative, to blame protestors, or even to rioters for this?

From your own article "Beyond the shooting, there were no known injuries to protesters or police, and no additional arrests"

[soldierant]

117. No question but that it was deliberate murder.

But what he needs to be charged with are charges that he will be convicted on, and preferably that will put him away long enough that he won't reoffend.

I don't know how the system works in Minnesota (I don't really know how it works anywhere from this angle, and probably no one could know how all the systems act anyway.) But I definitely remember how George Zimmerman was charged with murder (which IMO he committed) and walked because the prosecution set it up as all or nothing, no other charges, no lesser included offenses that the jury could still convict on if murder could not be proved. I don't want Mr. Chauvin to walk. I want him convicted of something, or some combination of somethings that are at least remotely appropriate to the crime. And whatever chsrging strategy that requires will be fine with me.

[Lars39]

5. Reactions like looting do not happen in a vacuum.

Egregious acts against a community paves the way to such a reaction. What's the phrase...death by a thousand cuts.

[MineralMan]

7. Exactly. When people have no power to address a wrong action,

they may use the power they have to punish the society in other ways.

When people have no voice in the justice system, they will act in other ways. Why we have not learned that, I do not understand.

[The Mouth]

123. What is devious is how the powers that be

use that rage response- the rioting - to oppress even further.

I was impressed at one protest here (over the shooting death of a young Latino boy with a toy gun) I was part of when the organizers shut down (and threatened to kick the asses of, to hearty cheers) the punks who tried to turn it violent; but the leaders of the Latino community are pretty politically savvy here in California; there was a *LOT* of anger (and still is). But my observation is that be it agents provocateurs or just community members, all it really takes is a couple of violent incidents and now you've played right into the hands of the people who benefit from continuing the situation. I think this was part of the genius of Martin Luther King, Caeser Chavez and their like- keeping the focus on the oppressors despite the justified rage; a very tricky thing and not easily observed.

[MineralMan]

124. You're right.

One of the problems with situations like the one in Minneapolis and now St. Paul is that the protests are completely unorganized and scattered. Where there is organization, the protests are peaceful. Where there is not, they are violent and destructive.

Despite everything happening in a fairly small area of both cities, not everything is part of an organized protest group at all. There is a lot of freelance anger being exercised, and there is no way to control that, unfortunately.

Once protests move beyond a controllable small location, they become impossible to manage. That is what is happening in Minneapolis and now in St. Paul and elsewhere. The result is fires and destruction. It's beyond the control of organizers.

[The Mouth]

125. and *THAT* was Dr. King's brilliance

protests didn't just 'happen', even though there was just as much justifiable rage. I wrote a little bit about this in college- the careful organization, use of the churches to both mobilize AND to have community 'elders' everywhere, carefully getting permits when possible, working with the press in advance, having high profile whites as well as respected clergymen and community leaders.

NOT an easy thing to do, but that's how people change things. There was just as much anger, just as much police abuse and systematic racism, heck the standard of living and oppression was much more back then from what I have read. But when you think of the visuals, the marchers singing 'We Shall Overcome', the perfectly clear contrast between church-going, well dressed men and women protesting and the police using dogs and water cannon, that's when progressives controlled the narrative, and an immense amount of work and thought went into it, much to Dr. King's credit.

[dalton99a]

6. Perhaps the D.A. is waiting for another camera angle/witness to say what we saw is not what we saw

The cop was just taking a break and resting his knee on a black man

[MineralMan]

9. As far as I know, there has still been no arrest of that cop.

He went home in the suburb where he lives. The man he killed went to the morgue.

No justice. No peace. It is a simple equation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

66. At least this time they were fired instead of being placed on leave,

which is what usually happens. Since the FBI is involved it's possible that arrests will take longer as jurisdictional issues are sorted out, but I believe they will happen.

[MineralMan]

72. Yes. I believe that Mayor Frey told the Chief to fire them,

in no uncertain terms. That was not enough, however. At least the cop who held him down with a knee on his neck should have been arrested immediately. He was not, however, and has still not been arrested, as far as I am aware. He lives in Oakdale, a suburb of St. Paul. Protesters were at his house yesterday, but Oakdale is its own jurisdiction. It has its own police force, and is in Washington County.

It's complicated. Arresting him in Oakdale would require some official maneuvering, I think, and would probably be done by the Washington County Sheriff's office, but won't be a simple thing of just having them go over and cuff him. I imagine he will stay out of Minneapolis and Hennepin County.

He could have been arrested at the scene very easily, but was not. Now it's complicated, and will require a warrant.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

77. There used to be a requirement that police officers live in the city

that employs them. But after that requirement was lifted in 1999 most MPD cops fled to the nice white suburbs where they have no contact with the citizens whom they are supposed to "protect and serve." It's especially bad in these parts:

In the Twin Cities, police live in the cities where they work less often than in most other large American cities. Only about 5.4 percent of Minneapolis officers live in city boundaries, according to data obtained by MPR News from the Minneapolis Police Department. About 22 percent of St. Paul officers live within city boundaries, according to the City Council. The national average for large cities is about 40 percent residency.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/03/20/police-officer-residency

I'm sure there are procedural issues to be sorted out. I agree that Chauvin should have been arrested on the spot, but the other cops didn't seem to be concerned about what he was doing. They were fired, too, and should be arrested as well.

[MineralMan]

78. That was a good requirement. It's too bad it is no longer in force.

Police officers in a city should have a stake in that city through living there.

[PTWB]

102. I imagine they would have to significantly increase police pay to re-institute that policy.

I suspect that it was lifted in negotiations with the police union in lieu of a pay increase.

[MineralMan]

106. Here's some information:

Minneapolis Police Officer Salary and Job Outlook
Police officers in Minneapolis earn an annual mean salary of $64,160 according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.2 The starting salary for new officers is between $54,504 and $69,565, depending on experience and qualifications.1 Police officers with the Minneapolis Police Department also have access to a generous benefits package which includes health insurance, dental insurance, life insurance, a pension plan, annual vacation time, sick leave, and paid holidays. Police officers who have accrued eight years of service with the MPD are eligible for additional longevity pay. The city of Minneapolis offers all eligible police officers a complimentary health club membership and reimbursement for uniforms is available. As of 2015, approximately 5,430 police officers worked in the Minneapolis metropolitan area.

https://www.criminaljusticedegreeschools.com/criminal-justice-resources/police-departments-by-metro-area/minneapolis-officer-requirements/

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

110. It's a state statute.

415.16 EMPLOYMENT; CITY OR COUNTY RESIDENCE REQUIREMENT.
§Subdivision 1.No exception for on-premises residence. Notwithstanding any contrary provision of other law, home rule charter, ordinance or resolution, no statutory or home rule charter city or county shall require that a person be a resident of the city or county as a condition of employment by the city or county except for positions which by their duties require the employee to live on the premises of the person's place of employment.

[DeminPennswoods]

103. You can thank the police union and FOP for that

requirement being gone. IMO, if you are paid by the city and its taxpayers, they have a right to put whatever qualifications they like on the job, including residency.

More firmly than ever, I believe police applicants should have to pass a rigorous psychological exam before being hired and promoted and be subject to random re-tests. I believe police depts should no longer recruit from the military with the exception of MPs, too.

[Paladin]

8. Bullseye, MM.

The civil discord is thoroughly justified and long overdue---looting included.

Want me to get all huffy about the Minneapolis looting? Talk to me after the trump crime family's massive looting of everything good and valuable in this nation is a thing of the past.

[MineralMan]

12. Thanks.

People without power in one area will use the power they do have in others, even if it doesn't seem to make sense.

How we have not learned that during my lifetime I will never understand.

[dalton99a]

13. Not just looting. They are letting him get away with mass murder.

[Shell_Seas]

18. +100 This. So much, this.

[Jirel]

27. This.

It is sad that the rich can loot unopposed, yet people who can’t afford baby seats and diapers are castigated.

It is unforgivable that some condemn loss of property as much or more than the years of violence perpetuated by the MPD on the community.

[uponit7771]

83. +1

[Hoyt]

10. +1. Maybe it's time they stop training police in "team" work. Four officers there, but not one

said "STOP."

[MineralMan]

15. Maybe it's time they started training cops

not to be racists, perhaps.

[Hoyt]

20. Start blaming those who hire, promote, protect racists. Not sure racists can be retrained.

[MineralMan]

21. Many are worthy of blame, indeed.

Far too many.

[dalton99a]

30. Nothing will change until we remove qualified immunity for cops

and hold them personally liable for their misconduct in criminal AND civil courts

[Mariana]

118. That's what happens every time.

Cops almost never step in to protect the victims of their colleagues. Most of the time, they actively join in the fun.

[luvs2sing]

14. Adding my thanks.

I’m a quiet, shy, peace-loving old white woman who wanted nothing more than to throw a brick or two through a plate glass window when I saw that video. If I am that enraged sitting safely in my living room in Ohio, I cannot imagine the rage, fear, and desperation being felt by black people in Minneapolis..and everywhere else, really. It isn’t right, but desperation drives us to do things we wouldn’t normally do..something..anything..to get people to pay attention and make it STOP!!!

[MineralMan]

16. Thank you for understanding!

[MaryMagdaline]

19. Excellent post

[MineralMan]

22. You're very kind to say so.

[42bambi]

25. "However, when nothing is done..." that says it all!

[MineralMan]

26. When good people do nothing in the face of evil,

they are no longer good people, in my opinion.

[42bambi]

31. How many more generations to come will continue with this sick evil mindset. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. I live in Minneapolis.

I'm not particularly close to where George Floyd was killed, but close enough that I've driven by the location many times and am familiar with the neighborhood. I also know the area where the rioting took place - years ago I used to hang out at a pizza joint that isn't there any more.

The sad fact is that, notwithstanding the generally liberal leanings of most of its population, Minneapolis has a long history of racism in its police department. Anyone from the area who's on the older side like me will probably remember Charlie Stenvig, the mayor during a good part of the '70s. Stenvig was one of those law-'n'-order types, a former cop who'd been on the force during the Plymouth Ave. riots in 1967, and later became the president of the police union. He ran for mayor successfully in 1969 as an independent, capitalizing on the white majority's unease over recent racial unrest. Stenvig was a racist asshole who didn't make any secret of his attitude toward the "liberal elites" and "racial militants." I don't know how racist the MPD was before Stenvig became mayor but he sure didn't improve anything. Through friends of friends and my work, I became acquainted with several cops during the late '80s and early '90s, and they were unabashedly racist; one of them used to brag about beating up suspects, especially Asians (there were a lot of Vietnamese and Hmong immigrants in the area). Mayors since Stenvig and some (but not all) police chiefs have been trying to clean up the department's act but without much success. I don't know what the answer is, wish I did.

https://www.startribune.com/early-morning-gives-way-to-devastation-following-overnight-protests-mourning-over-george-floyd-s-death-in-police-custody/570810051/#1

[MineralMan]

35. I know the neighborhood a little, having been through

it many times.

What you say about racism in the MPD is true, of course. It is true of most police departments, though. Many people who become police officers are very fond of authority. Many people who are very fond of authority seem to have serious biases of one sort or another, it seems to me.

I cannot stand to see Lt. Bob Kroll, the head of the police union in Minneapolist, on television. He is a Trumper, an extreme authoritarian, and a detriment to that police force. He hated the woman who was the former Police Chief, and he hates the current Police Chief. He also hates the Mayor of Minneapolis.

He is a hateful man, and holds a great deal of power because of his position in the union. I believe he should be fired as a police officer, which would remove him from his other position.

Changes are needed in the MPD. They are desperately needed..

At one time, I maintained a blog about Minnesota, as a newcomer to the state. It was once Blog of the Week in City Pages. One of its features was tracking the police response to deaths of people of color in Minneapolis, and the inaction of the MPD in investigating those deaths. I had to discontinue that blog, due to communications I received regarding my paying attention to those shortcomings. I won't belabor that point, but I could find no alternative to shutting down the blog. It was not a pretty thing.

[geardaddy]

50. Kroll is definitely a problem.

He needs to be fired yesterday.

[MineralMan]

52. Agreed.

[dflprincess]

116. I think Kroll is THE problem.

I'm sure he does everything he can to undermine both Frey & Arradondo with the rank and file.

[geardaddy]

121. You are right.

He is THE problem.

[dalton99a]

53. Kroll is married to a TV news anchor - a fact he tries to hide

Like many cops, Kroll keeps his private life private, particularly his marriage to WCCO-TV reporter Liz Collin. He refused to discuss the subject — going as far as saying he’d no longer talk to the Star Tribune if it reported they were married.

https://www.startribune.com/amid-attention-and-controversy-minneapolis-police-union-head-has-no-regrets/564290012/

http://www.citypages.com/news/bob-kroll-is-married-to-wccos-liz-collin-but-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-it/564352171
Bob Kroll is married to WCCO's Liz Collin but doesn't want to talk about it

[MineralMan]

56. I was not aware of that. Thank you!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. Bob Kroll is the reincarnation of Charlie Stenvig,

who held his same position as union president before becoming mayor. I certainly hope Kroll does not try to follow any farther in Stenvig's footsteps. He's an awful person and surely contributes to the department's mindset. I recall one of the cops I used to know commenting that there are only two kinds of people: cops and assholes. I've never had problems with MPD myself - had to call them a couple of times over the years to report a burglary and a car break-in, and they were courteous and reasonably helpful - but I'm an old white lady so there's that.

[aggiesal]

79. WOW, head of the Union and a Trumpette ...

the irony.

[dalton99a]

40. +1. Another interesting fact:

At a time when Minneapolis had been described in a national magazine as "the heart of American liberalism," Stenvig appealed to city voters' unease about crime and instability by vowing to take the handcuffs off the police.

Against the political grain at the time, Stenvig once proudly said he "tried to hold the line on taxes." In ways reminiscent of today, Stenvig remained unaligned with the DFL and the GOP. His supporters, staunchly anti-tax, organized under the banner of the "T Party," in homage to the original Boston Tea Party.

https://www.startribune.com/charles-stenvig-three-term-mpls-mayor-dies/85040487/

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

62. Yes, he was a kind of proto-Trumper.

If he were still around he'd certainly be on His Lardship's bandwagon.

[LiberalBrooke]

32. It was an execution by a cop in broad daylight on camera.

He had such a smug look on his face of feeling that he had a right to execute someone and that nothing would happen to him. We have to prove him and his fellow enablers wrong.

[MineralMan]

37. He even kept one hand in his pocket, as he nonchalantly

suffocated that man. Why he has not been arrested continues to puzzle me.

[geardaddy]

33. I live in Minneapolis

I live in an area near where George Floyd was murdered and am seething at the image of that pig kneeling on Mr. Floyd's throat and hearing his cries for help as the other cop visible just stands there. I'm seething at Mayor Frey for not having all four cops involved in this man's murder arrested. I couldn't sleep last night because of the rage I'm feeling. Minneapolis is burning because of all the racial inequities of the of its 150-some year history are coming to light for all to see.

[MineralMan]

41. Mayor Frey has no powers of arrest.

He is also frustrated by the failure of those who do have those powers to arrest him.

He can do only so much.

[geardaddy]

55. But he does have the power to dictate police policy

But I do understand his frustration.

[MineralMan]

57. Actually, he probably doesn't.

It's complicated.

[geardaddy]

61. Well, if the City Council has the power

They're not taking care of it either.

[MineralMan]

69. The City Council also has no powers of arrest.

Police departments are generally kept separate from civil authority to a great degree. The Mayor can't fire a cop, for example. There are very tight rules about firing police officers. I'm sure Frey insisted that the four officers be fired, and the Police Chief agreed with him and they were fired. However, Frey, himself, cannot do so, and neither can the city council. You can expect all of those cops to appeal the firings, too, and the decision about that will be made by a different body.

It's complicated.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

63. Frey has no authority to arrest anybody.

That lies with the Hennepin County Attorney's office, which would charge the offenses (or maybe the FBI, since they are now involved). Frey issued a strong statement calling for arrests, but it's not up to him to do it.

[geardaddy]

65. What about directing police policy?

I know MPD has been a thorn in every mayor's side for years. When will it stop?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

67. Unfortunately the union, headed by that asshat Bob Kroll,

is very powerful and seems to have the ability to impede whatever improvements the City Council might propose.

[roamer65]

87. Sounds like someone needs to can Kroll.

This is where union busting would be a good thing.

[Luz]

34. Desperate people do desperate things. It's human nature.

[Borchkins]

38. In 1962, John F. Kennedy famously said,

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

[MineralMan]

43. An excellent quote! Thanks.

[dalton99a]

44. +1.

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. A thousand times Yes.

When all rational responses to an absolutely intolerable reality are seemingly exhausted, seemingly irrational and intolerable reactions will increasingly emerge. I remember the race riots of the 60's. They were lawless. Innocent people suffered as a result of them. In the short term conditions for those where riots broke out significantly worsened rather than improving. But they could not be understood outside of the context of a deplorable racist status quo that had gone on in America for untold decades previously.

Yes peaceful protests had "moved the ball forward", but not that far and not that rapidly. America, as it turned out, needed the "shock treatment" that some outbreaks of violence provided. An urgent new outbreak of inter racial dialog followed closely on the heels of racial civil unrest in the 60's.

Resistance to true racial justice was then (and still is) deeply ingrained in America. Most white Americans are sadly too prone to slipping into passive acceptance of a status quo that they can easily live with even if members of minority communities in America can not. Shock treatment is an absolute last resort when no other options seem to be working. It is up to White America, myself included, to ensure that racial justice becomes a fundamental priority of this nation so that desperate measures never again need resorting to.

[MineralMan]

46. Very well said!

[The Magistrate]

45. I Agree, Sir --- Arrest Should Have Been Immediate

In fact, arrest for felony assault should have been performed while Mr. Floyd was still alive, by other police on the scene. The officer kneeling on his neck ought to have been hauled off, disarmed, and cuffed on the spot. Plenty of police were available to do it. That police will not hold other police to the law is the problem, and the failure of policing today.

[MineralMan]

48. Exactly.

The inaction of the other police officers makes them guilty of that man's death, as well. They could have prevented it very easily, but did not.

[mnhtnbb]

49. I was a teenager in 1965 and had just moved to California

the summer of the Watts riots.

In 50 some years the racism in this country has not changed much. Yes, we finally elected a black man president, but the backlash from the privileged white folks has been incredible, particularly among the white male supremacists. Then there's the Cooper woman in NY. It's not just males.

There are a lot of sick assholes in this country--encouraged to act on their racism and bigotry by orange 45--and it doesn't bode well for our future.

WTF is wrong with people? Every one of those cops should have been arrested by now.

[MineralMan]

51. Yes. I lived in California at that time, too.

We have not made much progress, apparently, at least as far as law enforcement is concerned.

[DENVERPOPS]

120. It's just to F***ing bad

That the Native American Indians didn't have a Border Patrol, ICE and Dept. of Homeland Security...........

The fact is, that all these Black, Mexican, and people of color haters are direct descendants of their relatives that wiped out the TRUE residents of North America...........

Screw the RepubliCONs and every last thing they stand for.............

And, WASF

[Hekate]

54. KnR with grief

[Lokee11]

58. JFK

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable."

- John F. Kennedy (1962)

I see now that this was already posted, just read the OP and this directly came to my mind and I replied. Such a truthful quote though, sad this was said in 1962 and here we are in 2020 and it is still relevant in this context.

FDT

[safeinOhio]

60. Sad day, however I was there in Detroit for the riots in the 60s.

They were going on in most large cities and way more violent than these.

They worked. We saw major changes in the law and new Civil Rights laws.

[wendyb-NC]

68. Well said, I totally agree

They must be arrested and charged with murdering Mr. Floyd and jailed.

[Olafjoy]

70. I posted last night

I posted earlier because I Worked at that Target store (T #52, Lake Street) all through high school and even some summers in college. It was a very diverse store and between that Target store and the Cub food store that shares the strip mall with it, this was a nice shopping hub that was a close bus ride or even walk for lower income folks but also middle class people and yuppies. They both employed people from the neighborhood and these are jobs that would be going on right now when we see that one in four Americans are unemployed. I am sad and heartbroken. My heart is broken for George. My heart is broken for the neighborhood. A comment I read last night really struck me. A young African American man said “We’re trying to make you feel as uncomfortable as you make us feel.” I will continue to work as hard as I can for social justice. The Police Officer needs to be charged with murder.

[MineralMan]

75. Thanks for that information.

[pazzyanne]

71. This is a sad time for Minnesota.

Thank you for your information. I have been at a loss since this happened. When the 4 police officers were fired, I was more than happy. Then came the realization that none of those officers were arrested! WTH! Anyone watching those videos saw a murder unfold before their eyes! As an old white woman, I am angry. Can not imagine how angry friends and family of Mr. Floyd are, and rightfully so. Time for major changes in how law enforcement conducts business in my opinion.

[MineralMan]

76. It is, indeed, and for our nation as well.

[Scruffy1]

80. Well said MM.

I lived in Minneapolis for over forty years and dearly loved it but decided to move to a warmer clime last year. I mow live in El Paso where it is warm and sunny and the cost of living is much lower. I didn't think about the immediate arrest of these officers, but of course it should have been done. If anyone besides cops had done this they would have had handcuffs on in a heartbeat. It's like they have special legal rights. I remember a young black woman from my wifes church who got hauled in on the bogus twent dollar bill thing.She had gotten it in change somewhere else. If it would have been me (an nold white man) I'm sure I would have been let go instead of being hauled in.
I wish I would have gotten a hold of you and maybe gone out to have coffee or a beer when I still lived in Northeast, but selling my old house and moving was frantic. It sold in four days with a three week closing. I have to say that El Paso is the least racist city I have known. The nearest large city is about a nine hour drive so we largely vote Democratic and ignore the Governor as much as possible. The people here are the friendliest and kindest anywhere. I am probably the only person in my neighborhood who isn't fluent in Spanish, and it makes no difference. I'd only been here a couple of weeks when one night I left my hatchback open. The next morniing a neighbor was popunding on the door to make sure I was Ok. Good luck to you.

[MineralMan]

90. We're counting on your vote in Texas!

[Thunderbeast]

88. It is no mystery why the black community is furious!

NOTHING seems to be working to curtail the institutional racism present in many police departments.

Recent history has shown little accountability. Offending cops are rarely prosecuted. Grand Juries (largely older white folks) are showing a history of refusing to indict. Juries are difficult to convince against an environment of hero-worship conferred on all police. Thankfully, the four cops in Minneapolis were fired immediately. I suspect their lawyers are huddling with their union to plot their return with a large cash settlement.

As soon as FOX NEWS gets their direction, we will be flooded with new talking points defending the cops and vilifying the defendant as a monster trying to take down the economy with his counterfeit 20 dollar bill (whether or not he knew he had it).

I have had many positive experiences (as an old white guy) with local cops. I know, however, that my city's PD is defensive and protective of bad actors on the force. The police union has been effective in protecting the status-quo.

These bad actors need to be weeded out of the force. Grievous acts of racist murder and assault MUST be prosecuted vigorously. Racist "Locker room" talk in the force should be taken seriously, and seen as evidence of unsuitability for the trust of the community evidenced by a badge and a gun.

As in the 60s...As in the Rodney King cop aquittal...as in most of our history, there is little evidence of effective tools for the AA community to defend themselves against vigilante cops.

[HipChick]

93. Not just black..

All communities black,white, asian ...human ...should be outraged...

[cayugafalls]

98. Exactly. Any human with a sense of morality and social justice should be outraged.

This is a stain on our entire society. It is a reflection of who we are as a nation, it ain't pretty.

Massive amounts of guns flooding our society, blood running in the streets, children killed in schools, POC killed for no reason by vigilantes/white thugs and officers of the law, a leader who incites racism and lies, endemic violence and racism, etc...there is no end to the ills of our society.

What we are seeing is merely the result of the sickness taking hold of the body.

I wish I knew the answer...

Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can't ride you unless your back is bent. MLK Jr

[cayugafalls]

94. Racism is endemic in our society. Violence is also endemic.

The two combined are highly combustible when something like this takes place. It is like lighting a match and setting fire to kindling, it is going to burn.

Until we solve the problem of racism (and our current asshole in the whitehouse) there is no de-escalation that will occur. The problem will get worse before it gets better. We are being led by an immoral, racist, narcissist bent on dividing this nation and driving us against each other until there is no other option but to respond violently. Dump has given rise to a more violent culture by the shear volume of his vitriol and racist comments and actions.

My fear is that he and his handlers want a culture war and violence in the streets so that they can then tighten the noose and remove even more personal freedoms.

Your OP is spot on. Signals. Since racism is endemic in our society, the signals are everywhere if you are a POC. I live it everyday. My family is mixed race and I am an old white guy. My wife and son experience life from a completely different viewpoint than me. My eyes have been open for a long time and it has never really changed. Laws may have been written, but attitudes and prejudice never went away. It is still there and it has never left. We are merely seeing the result of fanning the flames.

Buckle up. It is about to get really hot.

[MineralMan]

96. Thanks for your perspective on this.

The potential of the anger that is building up goes unrecognized by most people. So far, the anger is being taken out on buildings and corporations. It is a very short step from anger being taken out on the people who are causing this problem. If that happens, it will be a completely different story we'll be writing about here.

Nobody is invulnerable from such things, even though some seem to believe that they are.

[cayugafalls]

107. These officers have to be brought to justice and soon.

If they are not dealt with in a timely manner and another incident happens, I fear that short step may be breached.

People are scared when dealing with police now. That is causing them to do things they might not otherwise do, like stop their car and not get out right away (until they can call their parents or friends, or get their phone recording) like the young man in Midland Texas who rolled through a stop sign and pulled into his driveway and sat in his car until friends showed up recording the police. He was afraid! Multiple police cars, multiple police officers, all guns drawn and pointing. All for a traffic stop! Because he was black.

He could have been killed if there were not witnesses, all because of a misunderstanding and FEAR of police.

Body cam footage was released. I watched it all last night.

https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/VIDEO-City-of-Midland-releases-body-camera-footage-from-Tye-Anders-arrest-570713481.html

This is a smoldering fire. Let us hope that it continues to be taken out on buildings, however, one of the looters last night was killed by a shop owner who was protecting his store. So we now have that to deal with as well...it is now people on people.

Great OP...people need to discuss this widely. Thank you.

[MineralMan]

108. I'm watching to see what happens. Closely.

The police often respond to situations involving people of color with guns drawn. That means that they are afraid that such people might be armed. Most often, of course, they are not. However, there are firearms out there in that community, to be sure.

Those firearms are not carried around by POC. That does not mean that they do not exist, however.

That pawn shop owner was a foolish person. He should have stayed away from his shop, but he went there to protect his "property," and ended up killing someone in the process. That's a very stupid decision on his part. It's just stuff.

[Marrah_Goodman]

95. Exactly!

[c-rational]

99. Good post and many good responses, yours and others. Thank you MM.

[Alacritous Crier]

100. Thank you. This is spot on!

That was so well said. I only wish our media had the motivation to put things so eloquently. Unfortunately, their motivation always seems to be the bottom line.

It was so infuriating to see the callousness displayed by that murdering cop as he nonchalantly extinguishes a human life as though it were a mosquito. The authorities should have acted immediately in this case. The fact that they fired them is proof enough of that. By not moving forward with arrests they have signaled, as they always do, (unless the cop happens to be POC,) that there is a different system of justice for cops especially white cops.

I don't blame the people for protesting even though it never makes a difference. Even though it doesn't help matters, the violent protest and looting is a natural reaction to the frustration foist upon them by an unfair system. From what I have seen in my lifetime, it's only white people who have the power to change these things. POC can do the protesting but it takes white politicians to make the actual changes.

Policing in this country needs to be completely reworked. They have developed a military mindset, an us versus them mentality that not only effects POC but everyone. The outcomes, however, do seem to be more harsh on POC due to centuries old, systemic racism.

We need change soon!

As long as Trump and the GOP continue to foment this kind of strife in our nation, we're in for a world of hurt.

DUMP TRUMP!

[Lulu KC]

101. +1,000

When I think of the things I've said and done when angry in my little privileged world, I can't even imagine what I'd be capable of doing after multiple generations of systemic racism. That anger is earned.

If the cops are charged, tried, and then not convicted the whole cycle will just begin again. It's a cycle that must be broken, and this is not the part where that can happen. The anger needs to be released. We are all damn lucky it's a bunch of stores.

[Niagara]

105. Here we are 401 years later.

And we are still dealing with injustice in the United States.



When a fellow American is not resisting arrest and a police officer is doing bodily harm and kills the subdued suspect, this is murder. The police should not be above the law in any way. We need vastly improved and enforced laws to protect our AA citizens from being murdered by any type of authority.



I don't agree with the protesters who are looting and burning buildings, but I get where they're coming from.



Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[barbtries]

111. the Boston Tea Party was a riot.

it's an expression that is commensurate with the level of injustice.

that policeman just killed that man. he wanted to do in my opinion. he knew he was doing so. he didn't care. why isn't he in jail?

people can only be pushed so far. I don't want anyone else to get hurt but this crime demands justice.

#BlackLivesMatter

[dalton99a]

113. +1. The American Revolution was an illegal act

and of course, the French Revolution where the king and queen lost their heads

We are human and there is only so much people can take.

[marlakay]

112. I just finished watching Music for a revolution for a

Zoom class I am taking and the killing took place very next day so in my mind was the nonviolent peaceful protests the blacks were doing with Martin Luther King, while they got beaten, hosed, spit at, and more even killed and they were taught how not to be violent or fight back.

They did get president Kennedy and Johnson on their side and changed some laws but there is still a long long long way to go and after watching movie I felt sick at the racism in our country that is still rampant today.

[geardaddy]

114. The protesting apparently reached my neighborhood, Uptown

Many businesses were broken into. I haven't been out yet today, but a neighbor posted pictures of the damage.

[Joinfortmill]

115. Yup, it ain't rocket science, it's racism and murder.

from an old white woman who's sick of cops picking off black people.

[zentrum]

122. Eight minutes! The killer pressed on

…..George Floyd's neck for 8 minutes.

That's beyond the confusion of the moment. That's murder.

[US4u2]

126. Those cops should all go down for what took place...

but I don't get it. The riot targeted black people's businesses? I saw one news short that showed a black owner of a business brought to tears as he walked through the remains of the store that was his life's work and it touched me deep inside. Why destroy this man's property because you're angry with white privilege? Isn't he black like you, struggling to live a better life? And isn't it the same crime you are screaming at the top of your voice to stop, the callous destruction of a black life? If black lives matter, why doesn't his? Do black lives not matter to black people? I'm afraid I don't understand, because it seems that in order to protest the needless and shameful death of this man and the way POC are treated these days, the idea is to go out and destroy other black people's lives and property. How does that make any sense? Shouldn't you be attacking white businesses? I don't get it.

[MineralMan]

127. When anger becomes strong enough, everything is done

out of emotion, not reason or logic. People in such situations destroy what is near. They don't stop to ask "Who owns this business?" They don't wonder "Who are the customers who depend on this business?"

Angry people act on their anger, not their carefully considered logic.

That's your answer. It happens all the time when such things occur.

[US4u2]

128. true... but

I have a neighbor who told me he won't watch NFL football because of Capernick taking a knee, right, and I told him that I respect his act (him and everyone else who took a knee) because it brought attention to how black people are being treated these days. He took offense to that and said black people are only 12% of the population but they commit 90% of the crimes. I told him I didn't believe him and he said its on the internet and he'd be right back and show it to me on his tablet. So, I went inside and googled it. He was right, black people are 12% of the population, but they commit only 30% of the crimes, far below what white people commit. But I did learn that most of those crimes are against their own people, black on black crimes and that's very sad.

FYI, my neighbor never returned and I've never spoken to him since.

Anger is not an excuse to hurt whoever you want.

[MineralMan]

129. Not an excuse. A reason.

There are no excuses. Only actions.

[US4u2]

130. you are splitting hairs.

[Warpy]

131. I understood it 65 years ago

I left NC shortly after the MLK assassination. I was working an odd shift at a bank, reconciling computer stuff with everything else. I got out of work at 3 AM and walked to my car past boarded up and smoky smelling buildings. A gang of what looked like black teenagers approached me, threw peace signs which I returned and that was that.

Yeah, I understood it, all of it. I just wish I could say everything has changed. It hasn't.

It's been 50 years and Nixon's evil still lives on in police culture. It has to stop. Enough.