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vercetti2021

(10,156 posts)
Thu May 28, 2020, 11:30 PM May 2020

Honestly is this the end of America?

Mean look at the current state of our country and look at tonight in Minneapolis. Look at Trump and what hes done from covid to never shutting up. Are we at the end of the America experiment? It feels like this is some dystopian story

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Honestly is this the end of America? (Original Post) vercetti2021 May 2020 OP
The riots of the late '60s were far worse. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #1
Mix everything together vercetti2021 May 2020 #3
Yeah, it's coming from all directions and the asshole president seems to enjoy it IMO. n/t RKP5637 May 2020 #9
Don't forget climate change. Bluepinky May 2020 #21
Plus russia is in the middle of each discussion on each social media board, including DU. BComplex May 2020 #26
I had the chance to travel all accross American in 1967 or 68. OAITW r.2.0 May 2020 #5
There was a whole lot of other stuff going on then. Too leftyladyfrommo May 2020 #39
I've wondered winetourdriver01 May 2020 #2
Nope. But it's darn sure time to change leaders. Hoyt May 2020 #4
or at least time to change leader's diapers. Hermit-The-Prog May 2020 #30
Yes it is. Because you don't understand yourselves anymore. Shaddox May 2020 #6
Care to expand on that? smirkymonkey May 2020 #34
Is seems like it has been ever since Putin won in Nov 2016. BigmanPigman May 2020 #7
It goes back a lot further...FLA 2000 recount and the installation of Shrub... Moostache May 2020 #10
That is where the whole thing started. 20 gldstwmn May 2020 #28
It actually goes back further than that.... Upthevibe May 2020 #35
Absolutely!!! n/t RKP5637 May 2020 #11
Righteous anger is like wildfire. Good things do grow from it. We can't give up now. ancianita May 2020 #12
Let's see, we have daily massacres, unchecked gun access, ecstatic May 2020 #8
And the pandumbic is raging due to the propogandized media. nt live love laugh May 2020 #13
Perfectly cilla4progress May 2020 #14
No but this has the looks of a Long Hot Summer like in the 1960s Stallion May 2020 #15
1968 writ large relayerbob May 2020 #16
America is stronger than Donald Fucking Trump Skittles May 2020 #17
It's been over since Bush v. Gore berni_mccoy May 2020 #18
no. but Trump has brought us low Demovictory9 May 2020 #19
Itll be after the election - when all hell breaks loose. No way is that going smooth. jmg257 May 2020 #20
If that vile turd is re-elected. ABSOLUTELY YES. We're DONE. A failed state. CousinIT May 2020 #22
+100000000 Celerity May 2020 #37
Yes, and ultimately it may not be a bad thing. Maven May 2020 #23
If there is a second Civil War.. mvd May 2020 #27
It could be, time will tell nt Meowmee May 2020 #24
"...is this the end of America?" myohmy2 May 2020 #25
No. This is what America is, and always has been. Withywindle May 2020 #29
It might be the gaseous, overplump middle. nt greyl May 2020 #31
I think America has already ended, being reborn as a fascist state, not sure how bad it will yaesu May 2020 #32
This country has a cancer at its core PNW-Dem May 2020 #33
This is a question that has been asked again and again. This is very long, but bear with me, please DFW May 2020 #36
There is a lesson: we must protect it and defend our democracy FreddyWhite May 2020 #38
Imagine 1968 in the current media environment... JCMach1 May 2020 #40

Bluepinky

(2,268 posts)
21. Don't forget climate change.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:30 AM
May 2020

If the virus doesn’t get you, the unrelenting heat waves, floods or hurricane will.

BComplex

(8,050 posts)
26. Plus russia is in the middle of each discussion on each social media board, including DU.
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:37 AM
May 2020

That's a lot of what's been stirring a pot that really didn't need stirring.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,468 posts)
5. I had the chance to travel all accross American in 1967 or 68.
Thu May 28, 2020, 11:39 PM
May 2020

Lots of anger in the population centers in many cities....Flint, DSetroit, even LA.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,868 posts)
39. There was a whole lot of other stuff going on then. Too
Fri May 29, 2020, 05:42 AM
May 2020

There was rioting. Vietnam. A recession in the 60's.
A whole lot of social unrest. And always Russia making threats and China. Korea.

It's always a mess.

We were the best under Obama.

 

winetourdriver01

(1,154 posts)
2. I've wondered
Thu May 28, 2020, 11:34 PM
May 2020

Sometimes my thoughts run along these lines. How resilient is the Republic? We are about to find out.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
10. It goes back a lot further...FLA 2000 recount and the installation of Shrub...
Thu May 28, 2020, 11:55 PM
May 2020

I have also never been able to shake the feeling that the soul of the nation was executed at Sandy Hook. Children slaughtered with automatic rifle fire and NOTHING changed? That showed the nasty underbelly of the nation was a lot grimier than anyone suspected...

Our experiment in secular self-rule is on the line now. What happens next is the great unknown, but how we handle the process of removing Trump after he loses and refuses to go will determine if there is still an America in 2021 or not.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
28. That is where the whole thing started. 20
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:56 AM
May 2020

years of reckless tomfoolery by the GOP and here we are. It would be damn foolish to think there wouldn't be a price to pay for the stolen election of 2000.

Upthevibe

(8,046 posts)
35. It actually goes back further than that....
Fri May 29, 2020, 03:13 AM
May 2020

I've been meaning to do a time line so I'll try to get something up tomorrow.

ecstatic

(32,701 posts)
8. Let's see, we have daily massacres, unchecked gun access,
Thu May 28, 2020, 11:52 PM
May 2020

unchecked gun violence, unchecked cops, an unchecked "president," and of course, the unchecked virus.

The corruption is out of control. Look at Loeffler's outcome vs Burr.

Congress can't address urgent issues because the republican party wants to focus on cutting taxes for millionaires and controlling women's bodies at the expense of everything else. On top of that, republicans are doing everything they can to block non-whites from voting.

I don't see a way out of the mess we're in and I couldn't be any more disgusted with my country than I am right now.

Stallion

(6,474 posts)
15. No but this has the looks of a Long Hot Summer like in the 1960s
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:01 AM
May 2020

No work, no schools, no money and no hope

 

berni_mccoy

(23,018 posts)
18. It's been over since Bush v. Gore
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:08 AM
May 2020

The SCOTUS gave the election away, which allowed Bush to miss the attack on 9/11 and which paved the way to Citizens United.

CousinIT

(9,241 posts)
22. If that vile turd is re-elected. ABSOLUTELY YES. We're DONE. A failed state.
Fri May 29, 2020, 12:50 AM
May 2020

Most people (his cult and religious nuts) are too stupid to recognize it but we're DONE with him in there another 4 years. We'll be lucky to survive the destruction of his first 4 years. We may not.

Maven

(10,533 posts)
23. Yes, and ultimately it may not be a bad thing.
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:04 AM
May 2020

The country has been unable to meet the needs of all its people for a long time. I'm now convinced that we are better off splitting apart than remaining in this toxic marriage.

mvd

(65,173 posts)
27. If there is a second Civil War..
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:56 AM
May 2020

I do not think it will be like the first. More like the French Revolution. Racial injustices play a part, but the poverty and income inequality are too big in this country. And this pandemic can put things over the top. I can’t see the races fighting each other as most people are not racist or bigoted. It is most about the rich making out better every time, especially in Repuke administrations.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
24. It could be, time will tell nt
Fri May 29, 2020, 01:34 AM
May 2020

Imo what is happening, no good will come of it. It may help dumpster get elected. We may also see a rise in covid cases etc.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
29. No. This is what America is, and always has been.
Fri May 29, 2020, 02:07 AM
May 2020

Class/race/gender privilege has sheltered a lot of people from the reality of what marginalized groups have always faced here. The Baby Boomer prosperity bubble was a fluke, historically speaking.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
32. I think America has already ended, being reborn as a fascist state, not sure how bad it will
Fri May 29, 2020, 02:31 AM
May 2020

get but like I always said since the orange nazi got elected its only going to get worse.

PNW-Dem

(244 posts)
33. This country has a cancer at its core
Fri May 29, 2020, 02:43 AM
May 2020

and that cancer is called Ignorant White Trash. Every few decades, it rears it rears its ugly head – the Civil War, Jim Crow, Civil Rights and now Trump’s election. We keep hearing that demographics will put an end to it, but it can’t come soon enough

DFW

(54,372 posts)
36. This is a question that has been asked again and again. This is very long, but bear with me, please
Fri May 29, 2020, 04:56 AM
May 2020

The first test of fire was the Civil War. It can be debated that we still haven't fully recovered from that.

The second was the Great Depression, but that was mitigated by the fact that the Depression was worldwide, and affected not only us.

I see the third test of fire in the rise of McCarthyism in the early 1950s. That gave rise to the careers of two especially bad actors, Richard Nixon and Roy Cohn. Both close to McCarthy and his evil ways, Nixon made it to the White House and Cohn became Donald Trump's attorney decades later. Like an old friend of mine used to say, "'nuff said." Nixon got into office with the help of the Dirty Tricks Team (self-described "ratfuckers" ), which launched the career of one Roger Ailes, the architect of Fox "News." There were periods where their influence remained dormant, but that ended in 1996 when Murdoch gave Ailes his golden opportunity.

McCarthy's run ended shortly after the famous question was asked publicly: "at long last, have you no decency?" When the answer was clearly shown to be "no," his star started to fade. Nixon was already Vice-President by then, but the stain (plus Kennedy's stellar performance in the TV debates) was just enough to sink his presidential ambitions. Unfortunately, Vietnam was enough to sink Humphrey's, and Nixon got it after all. However, a leopard can't change his spots after all, and Nixon being Nixon sank his presidency in 1974. A brief period of hope took over in 1975, as Carter and Ford presented the decent sides of both parties. The arrogance of the Shah and some serious faulty assessment of the situation in Iran by the CIA let Reagan get away with toppling Carter, and dark times returned, though with the usual Republican corruption of a milder tone than under Nixon, and Bush I wisely refusing to invade Iraq.

Bill Clinton brought back grounds for feeling good about being American again, and even the well-financed Gingrich revolution of the right couldn't change the fact that Clinton was just REALLY likeable, and really wanted to do some good, personal faults and all. But by the time the election of 2000 came, Fox "News" had arrived, and public sleaze was once again being made acceptable to the masses. What should have been a shoo-in for Al Gore became the first of three disgraces out of five US presidential elections. Cheney saw he could become president-in-the-shadows, and did so.

As little as some crooked manipulation in Florida and a few other states was enough to install a corrupt and increasingly evil regime. Kleptocracy up to then could be considered as petty theft compared to what Cheney engineered. This was a real looting of the US Treasury, and the start of irreparable damage. The fiasco of Iraq wasn't such a fiasco for Cheney and his pals. Clinton's surplus and good relations with minorities were both wiped out. With Kerry's nomination (as late as December, 2003, Rove figured he'd be running against Howard Dean), the Republicans had to do some real work. Iraq was already a mess, and the deficit was already ballooning. Enter Kenneth Blackwell. Kenneth Who? Just the Secretary of State for Ohio and with that, the state's senior election oversight official--oh, yeah, Blackwell was also chairman of the re-elect Cheney/Bush committee in Ohio. Pure coincidence, you understand. That, plus the fact that many of the electronic vote-counting machines were MADE by Ohio Republicans, one of which said publicly that he would "deliver Ohio for Bush," and the fix was in. Cheney and Rove knew already that the way things were going, no Republican would win the White House in 2008. So, they started thinking up Citizens United, and nominated two Republican Justices to the Supreme Court that would uphold such a law, if a challenge were to come before them. Less than five years later, they did exactly that, and the fate of 80% of Barack Obama's agenda was sealed.

Obama's popularity (and Joe Biden's) continued to confound Rove and Cheney (now out of power, anyway), and even Moscow Mitch McConnell could only block whatever initiatives came before him in the Senate. He still couldn't control foreign policy. Not even Speaker Bonehead inviting Netanyahu to trash Obama before Congress could damage that. For me, Bonehead's crowning moment was when he went before rolling TV cameras, with frowning Republican House members standing close to him, reading from what he thought was the Constitution of the United States, explaining his opposition to the ACA. Even my German wife, when she saw it, recognized that what he was reading was not from the Constitution, written mostly by Madison in 1787. It was from the Declaration of Independence, written by Jefferson in 1776. Pride in ignorance started to be a bigger issue than it ever was, though in its infancy compared to what we have now. The class valedictorian is not supposed to be the class clown or the class dunce, and at the moment, he is both.

I find it highly significant that both Clinton and Obama left office highly popular, and that both Bushes left office singularly unpopular. Of course, leaving office less popular than Trump will be quite an accomplishment. It will take some REAL corruption to manipulate the election to the point where he remains in office.

Have we sunk to a point where that is possible? Yes, we have. But we are also at a point where we can turn out in numbers so massive, that despite ALL the Republican efforts to prevent people from voting, and to prevent those votes cast from being counted, that we can once again reverse the tide, and begin to do what Democratic administrations have been doing since 1993: damage control. Republicans don't want that, of course. People vote for Republicans when they feel scared and angry, and when people are doing well, they don't feel scared and angry. This is where Fox "News" comes in. If people are doing well (or, at least, better), Republicans need Fox to convince their voters that they are scared an angry. Otherwise, how are they to know? No one has yet come for their guns, but if Fox TELLS them that the "libbruls" are coming for their guns, well, DAMN, they are scared that the libbruls ARE coming for their guns, and the Taliban might show up on their doorstep. Never mind the fact the no libbrul ever came for any of their guns, and no Taliban will ever show up on their doorstep. The Libbruls want to convince you that we need to increase the deficit to combat the effects of a virus? Oh, no, the virus is a hoax (and besides, even if it isn't, too bad, because the Republicans already spent that money on themselves).

But keep thinking--damage control. Every time the Republican dig us into a deeper hole than they have before, we have managed to climb out. Will they ask Putin for help? Almost assuredly. This is not without precedent. When the Spanish fascists rose in revolt in 1936, their uprising would have fizzled without the brazenly open help of Hitler and Mussolini. Putin isn't in a position to offer the Republicans THAT kind of help. Even the fascist victory of 1939 wasn't eternal. In 1975, Franco's time was done, and by 1985 it was clear that fascism was NOT returning to Spain.

Now Spain doesn't have a Fox "news." Hungary and Poland are getting close to it, but it is a home-grown version. They may pay for Fox consultation, but both countries have rightist xenophobic tendencies, and will not tolerate foreign domination, not even from Brussels (they WILL ask for money, of course). But we are the masters in propaganda news from the right, and the American right will do and say whatever they can to scare people into voting Republican.

It's very simple: if they succeed, we're sunk. If they don't, we're not.

FreddyWhite

(69 posts)
38. There is a lesson: we must protect it and defend our democracy
Fri May 29, 2020, 05:40 AM
May 2020

I'm choosing to see this as a time of consciousness raising. We all know now how precious democracy is and that we must protect it and defend it. I will never ever take it for granted again.

JCMach1

(27,558 posts)
40. Imagine 1968 in the current media environment...
Fri May 29, 2020, 06:04 AM
May 2020

No, this is the dead end, scorched earth death throes of Trump and the Republican party...

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