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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 03:58 AM Sep 2012

If Romney loses the Republican party will blow up

Last edited Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:05 AM - Edit history (3)

If Romney loses, the Big Money boys will have thrown away a golden opportunity to frag the tea-party by letting somebody like Gingrich have the nomination.

Instead, with Romney as the nominee a loss will drive the Republican Party even further right because even though Romney is running on the wing-nut set of positions nobody believes he's a "real" conservative. He was positioned as the moderate candidate in the primaries. He will always, to the base, be the moderate candidate. He's Nelson Rockefeller, not Goldwater. He's Ford, not Reagan.

So if he loses it will be a national repudiation of nut-right positions that is read by the nut-right (aka Republican Party base) as a repudiation of moderation. They will be emboldened, not chastened.

51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If Romney loses the Republican party will blow up (Original Post) cthulu2016 Sep 2012 OP
Yep, They will think they have to go further to the right to win davidn3600 Sep 2012 #1
Could be. longship Sep 2012 #2
is the "nuclear option" mean getting rid Nightjock Sep 2012 #11
Yes. That's it. longship Sep 2012 #17
If the Reds keep moving to the right, Jamaal510 Sep 2012 #3
The GOP is dying and B Calm Sep 2012 #4
Our big tent party is big because it stretches in every direction... Astazia Sep 2012 #5
Even if it's close enough to cheat him into office Warpy Sep 2012 #6
The Ts call the Republican leadership the GOP-e or GOPe for "elite". nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2012 #7
they may be emboldened vlyons Sep 2012 #8
The Knives Are Already Out... KharmaTrain Sep 2012 #9
They'll be inclined to believe they lost NewJeffCT Sep 2012 #10
I think the situation is right for the formation of a 3rd party KurtNYC Sep 2012 #12
You are describing what happened in the 1850s nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #33
There will certainly be a huge intra-party fight, but I see Big Money beating the tea-party wing. pampango Sep 2012 #13
Well if you ask me, Big Money is late to the game on 'seeing the distater heading Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #26
They're losing because their rightward push is not supported by most people. porphyrian Sep 2012 #14
This is how bullies come to power Shankapotomus Sep 2012 #15
They've had bullies at the top for a long time -- Boehner, McConnell, Priebus, etc. Arugula Latte Sep 2012 #37
Agreed but I'm talking thug incarnations like Hitler Shankapotomus Sep 2012 #42
Romney won't cause it - it'll be the lost of the House that will cause it LynneSin Sep 2012 #16
You think they'll lose the House?? reformist2 Sep 2012 #22
25 seats is very doable for the Democrats LynneSin Sep 2012 #27
The house has been in play since February at least nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #34
I know several republicans that are wanting to move to Canada or Mexico if Obama gets reelected. modem77 Sep 2012 #18
And they'll have less chance than those of us who wanted to emigrate tavalon Sep 2012 #20
Tell them to get moving. Panasonic Sep 2012 #23
Hah. Canada has socialized medicine, abortion with no time limits, Doctor_J Sep 2012 #25
They do know of course that both have a form of socialized medicine nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #35
"If" went out the window on Monday tavalon Sep 2012 #19
WHEN Romney loses the Republican party will blow up spanone Sep 2012 #21
You're nuts Doctor_J Sep 2012 #24
The demographics are working against them big-time, with every passing month. Lex Sep 2012 #28
Yes, we've been hearing that for at least ten years Doctor_J Sep 2012 #29
Did Nevada and New Mexico used to be red? cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #30
Yep, and Colorado. Arugula Latte Sep 2012 #38
New Mexico went green long ago Doctor_J Sep 2012 #50
Yes, the "demographics" move more slowly than we would like but truebluegreen Sep 2012 #32
Nicely analogy, and completely off target Doctor_J Sep 2012 #41
Texas is your example? Lex Sep 2012 #39
Why wouldn't it be? Doctor_J Sep 2012 #40
There will be a bloodbath of epic proportions hifiguy Sep 2012 #31
Damn, you can write! Arugula Latte Sep 2012 #43
You might enjoy the third piece at this link. hifiguy Sep 2012 #44
This is just Republican comedy, tanking the election JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2012 #36
Here's my take on JEB in '16... bluesbassman Sep 2012 #45
Just a thought...given it's Hilary, both campaigns/candidates have some "history" cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #47
I don't see this Doctor_J Sep 2012 #48
This ^^^ 2016 Jeb and Hilary cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #46
Heh Doctor_J Sep 2012 #49
they brought this on themselves. warrior1 Sep 2012 #51
 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
1. Yep, They will think they have to go further to the right to win
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:13 AM
Sep 2012

It defies common sense too. I mean if you lose an election, it means you didnt have enough votes. So you respond by kicking people out of your party?

But that is exactly what they will do.

longship

(40,416 posts)
2. Could be.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:18 AM
Sep 2012

I am hoping for Republican political decimation. Loss of the House -- it looks close, but we still have six weeks -- Senate still in Dem hands, Reid pulls the nuclear option on day one of Congress, and a unequivocal electoral mandate for the President -- over 350 EVs.

Not likely to happen without us all working our tails off. But I think it may be reachable. I see at least one route to 362 EVs if we get some breaks. I think there will be surprises in November, few of which will go Republicans' way.


Nightjock

(1,408 posts)
11. is the "nuclear option" mean getting rid
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:07 AM
Sep 2012

of the fillibuster?.... which they should have done 2 years ago!!!
(seriously, I don't know)
I still don't understand why they didnt do it.

longship

(40,416 posts)
17. Yes. That's it.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:35 AM
Sep 2012

Understand that doing such a thing would be exceptionally politically disruptive. We have lived with the filibuster for decades and to get rid of it would likely disrupt the legended comity of the Senate.

However, one could argue that the comity is already all but gone. The Republicans have used the filibuster to politically obstruct a President and his party from governing. 360 cloture votes is unprecedented.

I sincerely hope that Harry Reid pulls the trigger in January and that they get the necessary 51 votes.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
3. If the Reds keep moving to the right,
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:46 AM
Sep 2012

we might come to a point where we have a three-party system, where we have the Democrats, the so-called moderate Republicans who get purged out, and the looney tunes who control today's GOP.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
4. The GOP is dying and
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:01 AM
Sep 2012

will be replaced by a third party. It won't happen overnight, but never the less it's happening!

Astazia

(262 posts)
5. Our big tent party is big because it stretches in every direction...
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:03 AM
Sep 2012

Theirs on the other hand, stretches only further to the right. We include all shapes, sizes, creed, color, religion, & sexual orientation. My dad, a holocaust survivor, was a democrat. We used to do our sample ballots together when he was alive. When I was 18 (in 1974) he went over the issues with me. I asked him "what's the biggest difference between parties". He told me..."democrats vote to help everyone, republicans vote for themselves". Seems to me, not much has changed...neither have I.

Warpy

(112,145 posts)
6. Even if it's close enough to cheat him into office
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:22 AM
Sep 2012

(and since his mouth is stuffed full of feet, that's a big "if&quot , the way the party leadership rode roughshod over all the Paulbots and Santorum candidates has set the stage for a total bloodbath the next time the party tries to field a candidate.

You could see it in their faces at the convention. They stayed rooted to their seats, expressionless, and golf clapping. Gone was all the loopy cruelty of the purple heart bandaids and the Jim Crow "humor" directed at Obama. They were told in no uncertain terms that they were there as guests of the plutocracy and that their function was to sit and obey. Jokers who'd felt a flush of power for the first time in their lives at teabagger meetings did not react at all well to this and their anger will continue to fester.

The Reagan coalition of the rich with the utterly witless of the religious right is breaking down right in front of us. Mitt's lip service isn't fooling any of them. Only the Nixon coalition of the rich and the bigots is holding up, and that's because our candidate isn't 100% white with a WASP name.

I think Romney is going to lose, he's been a terrible candidate thus far and he's the type of "self made" entitled man that you and I know is not taking advice to heart.

The plutocrats will blame the religious nuts for needing to be pandered to, thus destroying his credibility as a moderate. The religious nuts will blame the plutocrats for offering a guy who has plenty of lip service but no convictions.

2016 is their watershed year. Even if they hold together as a national party that year and field a candidate, the bloodbath during the primary season will have left him severely damaged. They have an equal chance of not fielding a candidate for President, depending on how much resentment has built up. In that case, they'll go the way of the Federalist Party and the Whigs.

Good riddance.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
8. they may be emboldened
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:49 AM
Sep 2012

but it's to run over the cliff, or rather to run the poor, elderly, non-white, and women over the cliff. I doubt seriously that the majority of American people will be so willing to go over a cliff.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
9. The Knives Are Already Out...
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:58 AM
Sep 2012

Bishop Willard, just like Gramps McCain, won their nominations by default...the unhinged couldn't fall in love with one wingnut candidate or another. They all but canibalized their own in the primaries that left Shitt Onme as the only candidate standing and it's been a shotgun marriage ever since.

Mittens represents the party elite...the big money that has long ruled the party...exploiting the fundies, racists and other far right groups for their votes. That plan went awry with the teabagger "movement"...instead of astroturfing a new generation of wingnuts, they created crabgrass all around the party and have overgrown the elite...much to their chagrin. The Todd Akin mess is a textbook situation...the elite want him gone but the teabaggers have stood behind him.

Many are already jetisoning Willard as....as you say...not being "conservative" enough and already blame the "elite" for the ruin of the party...blowing an election they were sure could be won. Doesn't everyone hate the "colored fella"? The Bishop hasn't helped his case by running such an inept campaign. Thus this blame game will be simple...Willard will become the Michael Dukakis of the rushpublican party...quickly forgotten.

The real fun is what happens down ticket. If the rushpublicans fail to take the Senate and by some chance lose the House...the blood will really flow and we can sit back and enjoy a couple months of some major right wing angst and finger pointing. But to discount them is too soon...as they still will control key state governments and their crusades to shove ALEC type legislation on the state and local level will continue...

NewJeffCT

(56,832 posts)
10. They'll be inclined to believe they lost
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:05 AM
Sep 2012

because Romney wasn't pure enough - so, they'll likely nominate a true conservative next time out, somebody really far right. Marco Rubio maybe?

(of course, TDS has been calling it the Road to Jeb Bush for a while now, no?)

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
12. I think the situation is right for the formation of a 3rd party
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:19 AM
Sep 2012

The GOP is very weak now because of this shotgun marriage to Romney. And I think you are absolutely correct about them regrouping more to the Right.

Imagine a 3rd party which peels away moderate conservatives and which drops the war on education, tax cuts for the rich / trickle down, and the war on women. The entire range of political discourse and options would shift Left and the GOP of 2016 would be even smaller and more isolated from the mainstream.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
33. You are describing what happened in the 1850s
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:31 AM
Sep 2012

Back then the liberals in both the Whig and democratic party went on to form that third party we're discussing right at the momemt.

There is a reason I call them the modern Whig party, or know nothing's.

History does have echoes.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
13. There will certainly be a huge intra-party fight, but I see Big Money beating the tea-party wing.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:24 AM
Sep 2012

Big Money can see the demographic disaster heading the way of their party with the aging and diminishing numbers of white voters. Big Money cares, not surprisingly, about money - not abortion, the Fed, Agenda 21, wanting 'our country back' or most other hot-button teabagger issues.

As long as socially conservative voters provided the electoral numbers to empower Big Money the latter was fine with supporting the former's favorite hot-button issues in the interest of achieving the political power that helps them make money. If socially conservative (to be kind to teabaggers), if not racist, voters become an impediment to Big Money, if BM sees that a socially moderate or liberal party gives them a better shot at power, it will be 'see-you-later tea party' time.

Today's teabaggers will then drift back to the libertarian party or even more-whacked out parties of the far-right from whence they came.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
26. Well if you ask me, Big Money is late to the game on 'seeing the distater heading
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:29 AM
Sep 2012

the way of their Party'. I mean, this is the second cycle in which their Party played the same record, it failed last time and they just put in on again. No one will dance to it this time either. So the money might be far bigger than the brains if you ask me. I mean, look at Mitt and try to convince me that wealth equals intelligence and wise tactics.

 

porphyrian

(18,530 posts)
14. They're losing because their rightward push is not supported by most people.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:30 AM
Sep 2012

They may have the majority of the wealth, but they still need enough votes to succeed. If they do as you say, that's great, because they'll be out of the political scene for decades to come.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
15. This is how bullies come to power
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:30 AM
Sep 2012

Off the failed weakness or perceived failed weakness of the previously tried leadership, whether in their own second fiddle leadership or in their political opponants' leadership.

They've tried the moderates. Now they will go with the bullies. Only when we've defeated their bullies will the republican party truly be finished. We'll have to redouble our efforts against them after this election if we are finally going to put a stake in them. They are going to be coming at us hard after they lose this one and we will have to get even tougher and smarter.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
42. Agreed but I'm talking thug incarnations like Hitler
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 03:19 PM
Sep 2012

The ones for who civilized discourse is irrelevant and who truly believe might is right and go about behaving that way.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
16. Romney won't cause it - it'll be the lost of the House that will cause it
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:33 AM
Sep 2012

I have a feeling that a slew of those crazy-ass Tea Party idiots that got elected to the house will go down in flames this election. None of them did anything of significance these past 2 years other than life the high-life off of their government paychecks. I think there is alot of buyers remorse with those candidates.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
27. 25 seats is very doable for the Democrats
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:54 AM
Sep 2012

And there are many freshman tea party republicans where the voters are having serious buyers remorse.

I think it will happen.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
34. The house has been in play since February at least
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:33 AM
Sep 2012

Got that from the horse's mouth. (Leader Pelosi). We even ran a story on that in the paper.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
20. And they'll have less chance than those of us who wanted to emigrate
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:43 AM
Sep 2012

after Dubya stole two elections. It isn't easy to emigrate to Canada and they are dealing with conservation shitheads up there too.

 

Panasonic

(2,921 posts)
23. Tell them to get moving.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:46 AM
Sep 2012

Those immigration requests takes forever, and they don't take political asylums from the United States - they'll look at you like you're fucking nuts and refuse admission to their countries.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
25. Hah. Canada has socialized medicine, abortion with no time limits,
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:15 AM
Sep 2012

high taxes, public transportation and schools, and so on. They'll feel right at home there.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
24. You're nuts
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:12 AM
Sep 2012

they will triple down on obstruction, lies, hate, fear, and propaganda. they have managed to turn what was once the world's beacon of freedom into a fascist 3rd-world hell hole in only 25 years by intimidation and hate. They aren't going to back off because of one loss.

Lex

(34,108 posts)
28. The demographics are working against them big-time, with every passing month.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:57 AM
Sep 2012

It's arithmetic. To paraphrase Lindsey Graham, they can't seem to get enough angry white guys to keep their party going forward.

But also, I don't think they'll change either.


 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
29. Yes, we've been hearing that for at least ten years
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:54 AM
Sep 2012

it's still BS. Look at Texas. Those "demographics" that are supposed to be helping us so much are firmly in place there. Yet it is deep red.

As long as there is Hate Radio and Fox "News", they will continue to move to the right, and continue to make gains

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
38. Yep, and Colorado.
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:49 AM
Sep 2012

For so long it was unthinkable that those big Southwestern-Western states could be anything other than strongly Republican. I remember every presidential election when the polls closed the TV would immediately color them Republican (back in the day they often used blue for Republican states, before the 2000 election fixed red-for-Republican in place).

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
32. Yes, the "demographics" move more slowly than we would like but
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:21 AM
Sep 2012
Eppur se muove!

This is high tide for them, and the flow is already going the other way.
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
41. Nicely analogy, and completely off target
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 02:48 PM
Sep 2012

The demographics in TX have already moved, and the state is hopelessly Repuke. Same with AZ. Regardless of how quickly or slowly they're moving, in the places where they've already moved, the Repukes have a stronghold.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
40. Why wouldn't it be?
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 02:43 PM
Sep 2012

This fantasy about the demographics turning for us is based largely on the growing percentage of Hispanic and other non-white races among the population. Texas has already seen that change in demographics - the highest % of Hispanics of any state. Yet they as far right as any state in the union. When someone posts, "The demographics are moving in our favor", that is simply not true. There are places in the country where the demographics have already moved, and one of those places is TX, and it has done absolutely nothing to make the state less Republican.

Please don't come back with another "Hmmmm...". If you have a reply to this, make it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
31. There will be a bloodbath of epic proportions
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:17 AM
Sep 2012

There are two basic segments of the institutional (what an appropriate word) Repig party: (1) the Plutocracy with their Randian Social Darwinists and (2) the inbred bigot/religulously insane - dominionist/bagger/caveman contingent. The plutocrats have the money but the lunatics have the numbers.

Originally this marriage of convenience was arranged by Ronnie Raygun, but the plutocrats have been getting greedier and the lunatics crazier every year. There isn't enough duct tape in the world to stick this mess back together again.

These two groups psychopaths are driving the Repig klown kar over the cliff, yet have in many ways nothing in common. The plutocracy's only real interest is in swindling every dollar out of the middle class after which the vampire squids will start turning on each other. The lunatics' only real interest is in returning to the Dark Ages. Oil and water, anyone?

Furthermore, demographics are turning, and brutally, against the Repigs. Within one or two more presidential election cycles it may well be basically impossible for them to manufacture an electoral college majority.

Let the circular firing squads commence now. The carnage will be a beautiful thing to see.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,549 posts)
36. This is just Republican comedy, tanking the election
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:37 AM
Sep 2012

They got nobody to beat Obama, so might as well goof around.

Watch 2016, when John Ellis Bush (JEB) makes a run at the White House.



bluesbassman

(19,472 posts)
45. Here's my take on JEB in '16...
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:02 PM
Sep 2012

Not enough distance from W yet. Obama of course will win in November, and if we retain the Senate and possibly take the House, President Obama will have a real shot at improving the economy and employment. This scenario will serve to highlight the failure of Bush the Lesser's term and JEB will spend 90% of his time answering questions about how his administration would be different from his brother's. He'll be on his heels from the beginning.

cr8tvlde

(1,185 posts)
47. Just a thought...given it's Hilary, both campaigns/candidates have some "history"
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:28 PM
Sep 2012

We might actually see a campaign built on real politics, not mudslinging. Maybe? And I'm pretty sure Jeb has that already figured out. His wife is a superb campaigner...bilingual and experienced. Also, these are our two "royal" houses and the families acknowledge and like each other.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
48. I don't see this
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:18 AM
Sep 2012
if we retain the Senate and possibly take the House, President Obama will have a real shot at improving the economy and employment.


In 2009-2010 we had huge majorities in the House and Senate - bigger than we can hope for in 2013. So there will be again be a lot of appeasement and "reaching out" by the president. Not much will get done again.

cr8tvlde

(1,185 posts)
46. This ^^^ 2016 Jeb and Hilary
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 04:19 PM
Sep 2012

She gets four years of "rest" to consolidate her 4 international years, Obama gets his 4-years to finish his term. Columba Bush is pretty amazing...she is a real Latina...born in Mexico. I think it will be Jeb and Columba vs. Hillary and Bill.

Any ideas on VP? Marco Rubio? His wife is Colombian, too, which would make 3 out of four native Spanish speakers on the ticket, albeit a lot of Florida.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
49. Heh
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:20 AM
Sep 2012
Columba Bush is pretty amazing..


She's also a smuggler. And Jeb's kids are all delinquents and reprobates.

BTW, despite your fondest hopes, they won't have two Floridians on the ticket.
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