General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen a poster raises the prospect of Trump refusing to leave the White House even
after he loses the election, inciting his rabid militia supporters to disrupt Biden's inauguration, etc., we often read responses from those who are more "politically sophisticated" saying " He CAN'T do that! It's illegal, silly!"
It is just possible that these folks are making a glaring fundamental error: they are assuming that, because they abide by the law, Trump surely will AND that, because they try their best to find reasonable solutions to their problems, Trump will also. In view of what we have witnessed these past four years, I find these assumptions incredible.
Like Putin and Kim and Pol Pot and Stalin, Trump isn't like us any more than Cujo was like your pet.
Expect Trump to do ANYTHING that might help him in power and out of prison.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)2naSalit
(86,579 posts)And now that his views about the military have been laid bare, I suspect there will be the equivalent of battalions waiting to remove him and his minions from our property.
Like Speaker Pelosi said, "Oh, he's leaving."
brush
(53,776 posts)without resources. There is the Secret Service, US Marshals, the Capitol Police, Metro Police, National Guard if necessary. Let him try something, even with his maga followers armed and incited into the streets, he'll find that the above mentioned forces are loyal to the Constitution and the president, which he will no longer be.
And don't even mention the regular armed forces as deployment of them on US soil does not/won't happenespecially since it came out that he thinks they're suckers and loosers.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,517 posts)They aren't and neither are the majority of American voters, U.S. Marshals, media, etc. He is not some all-powerful god. He will lose and he will leave. Period.
hlthe2b
(102,236 posts)WASHINGTON On the second Friday in June, a group of political operatives, former government and military officials, and academics quietly convened online for what became a disturbing exercise in the fragility of American democracy.
The group, which included Democrats and Republicans, gathered to game out possible results of the November election, grappling with questions that seem less far-fetched by the day: What if President Trump refuses to concede a loss, as he publicly hinted recently he might do? How far could he go to preserve his power? And what if Democrats refuse to give in?
All of our scenarios ended in both street-level violence and political impasse, said Rosa Brooks, a Georgetown law professor and former Defense Department official who co-organized the group known as the Transition Integrity Project. She described what they found in bleak terms: The law is essentially ... its almost helpless against a president whos willing to ignore it.
Using a role-playing game that is a fixture of military and national security planning, the group envisioned a dark 11 weeks between Election Day and Inauguration Day, one in which Trump and his Republican allies used every apparatus of government the Postal Service, state lawmakers, the Justice Department, federal agents, and the military to hold onto power, and Democrats took to the courts and the streets to try to stop it.
If it sounds paranoid or outlandish a war room of seasoned politicos and constitutional experts playing a Washington version of Dungeons and Dragons in which the future of the republic hangs in the balance they get it. But, as they finalize a report on what they learned and begin briefing elected officials and others, they insist their warning is serious: A close election this fall is likely to be contested, and there are few guardrails to stop a constitutional crisis, particularly if Trump flexes the considerable tools at his disposal to give himself an advantage.
He doesnt have to win the election, said Nils Gilman, a historian who leads research at a think tank called the Berggruen Institute and was an organizer of the exercise. He just has to create a plausible narrative that he didnt lose.
The very existence of a group like this one, which was formed late last year, underscores the extent of the fear in Washingtons political circles and beyond that Trump will take the same hammer he has used to fracture the norms of executive governance over the past three years and upend the nations delicate tradition of orderly political transitions of power by refusing to concede if he loses.
We have norms in our transition, rather than laws, said Rachel Kleinfeld, a senior fellow in the Democracy, Conflict and Governance Program at the Carnegie Foundation, who was not part of the game. This entire election season is something a democracy expert would worry about.
It is a fear that has been stoked by the president himself, who has repeatedly warned, without offering evidence, of widespread fraud involving mail-in ballots which voters are likely to use at unprecedented levels because the pandemic has made in-person voting a potential health risk to cast doubt on the results of Novembers election.
I accept that there are no "givens" anymore, but there is little I personally can do except focus on GOTV. AND I DEFINITELY am doing THAT. That said, stressing everyone out when there is little we can do is not helpful.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)magicarpet
(14,145 posts)... as he realizes a second term might not be in the cards for him.
If I can't have,... I'll break it,... so nobody else can enjoy it. Me, me, my, my, mine or fuck you.
mcar
(42,307 posts)But the Secret Service will.
At noon on Jan 20, 2021, IMPOTUS will no longer be president. He will be forcibly removed from the WH if necessary. His rabid militia supporters notwithstanding.
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)And we should stop giving it oxygen. It's nothing but a fantasy.
ElementaryPenguin
(7,800 posts)And therefore it would be impossible for him to remain!!
Atticus
(15,124 posts)try---basically throw a violent and destructive hissy fit with the participation of his thugs.
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)Atticus
(15,124 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)They work on the assumption that the highest levels of the military will violate their oath and obey unlawful orders.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)No, they assume, correctly, that regardless of what Donald Trump wants to do, the people in charge won't go along with him.
* The Secret Service won't barricade the doors of the White House
* The Military won't occupy Washington DC
* The police won't let armed militate members run rampant in the streets.
On Jan 20, Trump's term will end, and nobody will stand with him to change that.
brush
(53,776 posts)Atticus
(15,124 posts)Are we certain Trump will not call upon the nutso militias and Russian plants to oppose the very folks you correctly say will not obey a former president? Of course, we will prevail but, in my view, those who are "war gaming" the possibilities are prudent, not alarmist.
pnwest
(3,266 posts)around the White House? The refusing to leave will manifest as massive cheating that will be plain as day, (cause these guys arent very clever), and there will be huge protests. He has already envisioned the hordes coming to drag him out, and hes putting up climb-proof walls. This will NOT end peacefully.
brush
(53,776 posts)struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)somewhat grudgingly, based on process. An attempt to exercise that power, outside of the usual process, will not gather widespread consent
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)... or be removed by force IF he loses the election. Its silly to think he will attempt some sort of coup to remain in the presidency with military support, or even with the support of private militias or hired mercenaries. The military simply will not go along with that, and they will quickly put down any insurrection that attempts it. Drones v AR 15s? It will never happen.
BUT - thats if he loses the election. He WILL do everything in his power to be able to claim that he didnt lose. Thats where people are underestimating him again. There is simply no level he wont sink to in mucking up the election and challenging the results. From staged operations to media manipulation to the courts, he will pull out all the stops, and attempt everything we can imagine plus much we cant. It will be a shitshow like nothing weve seen.
GeorgeGist
(25,320 posts)he'll run away to Saudi Arabia.